"There was no way to have a rational conversation with him"

You interviewed Trump three times, two of them after January 6. You’ve said that you believed in his heart of hearts that he thought he actually won the election. This aligns with everything we know about Trump, but did anyone else around him construct that same force field, or were they just trying to please him?
In my interactions off-camera with people around him, there were a few different positions. There were those that didn’t really think that he would be successful in his attempts but were hoping that he would be. Then there were those who thought it was a very bad idea and he should not be doing it. Then there were those who were somewhat indifferent. There was a sense of people feeling a bit scared of him.

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But were any of them true believers like he was?
I don’t really recall in terms of specific interactions that anyone absolutely bought into what he was saying. They wanted to, perhaps.

But he really did believe.
Based on my interactions with him — I don’t claim to be a psychologist or psychiatrist, but in those moments, the position he gave to me is someone who was utterly irrational, someone living in an alternate reality, and that there was no way to have a coherent, rational conversation with him. It’s very scary when people start to believe in their own lies, and when you can’t have a rational conversation with them — that’s when things become very dangerous. And we’ve seen that play out in history, when very dangerous people start to believe in their own rhetoric and are able to get their supporters to believe.

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