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I assume that in most households, it’s the wife that drives the religious upbringing of the children. In my case, my father was Lutheran and my mother Catholic, and my sister and I were raised Catholic. Hitchens has a good point, that attending TUCC might have been Michelle’s choice, which would also explain why Obama has been so bad at distancing himself from Rev. Wright and the TUCC. No man wants to cross his wife.
Enrique on May 5, 2008 at 12:53 PM
I direct your attention to Mrs. Obama’s 1985 thesis at Princeton University. Its title (rather limited in scope, given the author and the campus) is “Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community.” To describe it as hard to read would be a mistake; the thesis cannot be “read” at all, in the strict sense of the verb. This is because it wasn’t written in any known language. Anyway, at quite an early stage in the text, Michelle Obama announces that she’s much influenced by the definition of black “separationism” offered by Stokely Carmichael and Charles Hamilton in their 1967 screed Black Power: The Politics of Liberation in America.
‘Nuff said.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on May 5, 2008 at 12:57 PM
Hitch raises a good question, and I would be entertained to here, in his next speech, Obama says he can’t disown [fill in the blank] anymore then he can his own wife. To the point: in comparing Obama to someone else, I would think it safe to assume him closer in ideology to his chosen spouse then any other acquaintance. Michelle may be responsible for Pastorgate, but it doesn’t reflect well on Obama’s values if true.
I keep spreading this, hoping someone will take up the call…
CHARGE 14 – “I understand what it is to be an African American.”
EVIDENCE – Senator Obama is not African American according to U.S. Law. Senator Obama is an Arab-American according to U.S. Law. SOURCE 1, SOURCE 2, SOURCE 3
COUNTER CLAIM – Senator Obama’s father is from Kenya (Black African) and he (Obama) was born in America. How can you say he is not African American?
REBUTTAL – Senator Obama’s racial background consists of the following: 50% white (mother, both sides), 43.25% Arabic (father, both sides), and 6.25% African Negro (father, one side, 1 generation removed). 12.5% is the legal threshold one must prove to claim racial status under the law. In addition, Senator Obama cannot make a sociological claim as an African American either. He was not raised as an African American, was not raised by African Americans, and was not raised in an African American neighborhood.
Obama, in his book, talks about how Wright helped him find his “identity”… which it turns out? Is a Fraud. If he had distanced himself from Wright early on, the BLACK community would have started to question his “blackness”… and once that happens, and the facts get out? He looses the Black vote.
He is ARAB American… and it was the ARABS who sold the Blacks into slavery.
Romeo13 on May 5, 2008 at 1:13 PM
To describe it as hard to read would be a mistake; the thesis cannot be “read” at all, in the strict sense of the verb. This is because it wasn’t written in any known language.
So…is this why her thesis hasen’t been more widely dissected in the media? I had just assumed it was because there was nothing newsworthy there. But…if it was embarrasingly non-scholarly, or even readable, I sure can see why it hasn’t been criticized; it would take loads of tact to avoid seeming personally judgemental about the performance of a prize Diversity trophy:
Black.
Female.
Inteligent…(?)
pseudonominus on May 5, 2008 at 1:17 PM
To describe it as hard to read would be a mistake; the thesis cannot be “read” at all, in the strict sense of the verb. This is because it wasn’t written in any known language.
I might consider never posting another internet comment, and moving under a pseudonym to Escanaba, Michigan, where I could operate as a seasonal deer hunting and ice fishing outfitter in total anonymity, if only to avoid having Hitchens comment publicly on my previous writing.
He is brutal. God bless him (yes, I did).
Jaibones on May 5, 2008 at 1:22 PM
pseudonominus on May 5, 2008 at 1:17 PM
Yeah, could you imagine ANY college proffesor having the Cojones to nail a Black Woman for a poor disertation on race? Even if it was basicly incoherent?
Romeo13 on May 5, 2008 at 1:24 PM
I think we can exclude any covert sympathy on Obama’s part for Wright’s views or style—he has proved time and again that he is not like that, and even his own little nods to “Minister” Farrakhan can probably be excused as a silly form of Chicago South Side political etiquette
BS. Hitchens has zero proof that Obama does not agree with Wright. Zero. The evidence point to the contrary. His long association with Wright, his reluctance to break ties even after the video surfaced, his willingness to throw his grandmother under the bus and talk about “typical white people,” his association with Ayers and his own wife’s rhetoric all point to agreement with Wright’s view of the world and Hitchens is darn well smart enough to know it!
TheBigOldDog on May 5, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Romeo13 on May 5, 2008 at 1:13 PM
I would love to see the source of these numbers. Would like to spread them, but I need to have them substantiated first.
Zaire67 on May 5, 2008 at 1:34 PM
I had the feeling a while back that Michelle might have been instrumental in Barack’s association with Wright’s church, but a quick look at his Wiki entry shows that Barack joined it a year (1988) before meeting Michelle (1989).
It’s not unsurprising, though, that Barack would settle on Michelle courting, either. If anything, Michelle’s initial reticence was probably due to his not being outwardly radical enough.
It might be, however, that it was Michelle that kept Barack at TUCC. It’s possible that her desires — she does talk like she wears the pants in the family at least half the time — trumped Barack’s if he did consider switching chrches at some time over those twenty years.
But I doubt it. I seem to remember reading something about Barack’s association with that commie he met in Hawaii(?) who counselled him in the art of subterfuge when it came to rising to power. That would explain Hitchens’ suggestion that “and if the rest of his character seems to make this improbable” is nothing more than Barack’s okie doke.
It’s a valid point that Michelle Obama is only the first well publicized (by her own gaffes, initially) long-term relationship of anti-white bigotry that Obambi chose to attach himself. Revrum Wright is the latest example of Michelle’s and probably Obama’s true mindset.
I can understand why the Leftist media and Princeton University are reluctant to publicize Michelle’s thesis. If she’s illiterate and irrational yet still managed the passing grade(s) it will make preferential treatment, admissions, social promotion and degree(s) received at Princeton for reasons besides merit all too obvious.
viking01 on May 5, 2008 at 1:55 PM
During the Wright ‘dissertations’ last week, I did print out Michelle O’s thesis. It is pure rudimentary garbage, not at all material for completion of advanced studies. Mr. Hitchens is right on that account too.
Entelechy on May 5, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Entelechy, do you have a link where that thesis can be read?
Vanceone on May 5, 2008 at 2:06 PM
And when it comes down to it…if Obama was on our side, a Republican, I’d have no problem with him. But he’s not. He’s a a Dem first, and a crazyass lefty to boot.
Race doesn’t count with me as much as he thinks it does. It’s the policies and the party.
LtE126 on May 5, 2008 at 2:10 PM
Alas, the key lies in this
“Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black,” Mr. Obama wrote in his autobiography “Dreams From My Father.”
Black, and more than black…that’s the crux of it all. Michelle probably drove her husband towards this “more than black”, which was fine for lower offices, and is not acceptable, nor winnable for a presidency.
It is what destroyed the quest in the end. Not accepting who he was in the first place, trying to become what he wasn’t for 20 years, only to then throw his pastor under the bus, reverting back to all of a sudden being half white.
Fakery never works, and always reveals itself.
…
Mr. Obama is a phony, and a tragic figure. His wife’s precocious and calculated ambition/s have taken a good man into this abyss.
Entelechy on May 1, 2008 at 1:59 AM
Entelechy on May 5, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Vanceone, in the first paragraph, there are Parts 1-4 of the thesis. It takes a long time to print, as it’s scanned.
And, as Hitchens says “it’s not readable”, as it wasn’t written in any language. It’s a rudimentary mess. If the journalists w/b erudite, they’d have noticed a long time ago. Or maybe they’re erudite but in the pants with the Obamas.
Entelechy on May 5, 2008 at 2:20 PM
Lay off Faline. This conversation isn’t helping her fawns.
You people obviously have no clue how hard it is to be a millionaire in this country.
misterpeasea on May 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Entelechy, do you have a link where that thesis can be read?
Good luck. I actually read the whole thing, after which I drank heavily. As Hitchens notes, her command of the English language is sadly lacking; it’s on par with my command of Sanskrit. As to content, if every American read and understood this thesis, they would quickly divide into two camps: those who would proclaim Obama and spouse to be the long-awaited messiah through whom latent white liberal guilt would finally be expunged, and those who would puke.
I’m in the latter camp, and it wasn’t entirely due to the alcohol.
Splashman on May 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM
He is ARAB American… and it was the ARABS who sold the Blacks into slavery.
Romeo13 on May 5, 2008 at 1:13 PM
No matter how many times you post this, it’s still BS.
Oh and it is well-known that both black Africans and Arabs enslaved various tribes in Africa. That has nothing to do with Obama’s Luo heritage–a black African tribe. Try looking the tribe up at a site composed by someone who isn’t trying to hasten another big confrontation between Islam and Christianity by making sh*t up. There’s enough real stuff out there for that.
I’d give her a break, as it’s an undergraduate paper. Who had a clue when they were 21 years old.
Paul-Cincy on May 5, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Thanks for the link to the thesis, I’ve always wondered about that.
Now, I’m never written a thesis, but are they usually double or triple spaced with wiiiide left and right margins and barely a paragraph on each page? Is that the norm?
dish on May 5, 2008 at 2:44 PM
I seem to remember reading something about Barack’s association with that commie he met in Hawaii(?) who counselled him in the art of subterfuge when it came to rising to power. That would explain Hitchens’ suggestion that “and if the rest of his character seems to make this improbable” is nothing more than Barack’s okie doke.
Dusty on May 5, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Frank Marshall Davis is the guy’s name. Obama talks about him in Dreams from My Father.
I’d give her a break, as it’s an undergraduate paper. Who had a clue when they were 21 years old.
Paul-Cincy on May 5, 2008 at 2:44 PM
I’m generally inclined to agree, but the self-pitying attitude she exhibited in the paper seems, if anything, to have gotten more pronounced.
misterpeasea on May 5, 2008 at 2:54 PM
I’d give her a break, as it’s an undergraduate paper. Who had a clue when they were 21 years old.
Paul-Cincy on May 5, 2008 at 2:44 PM
No way. Undergraduate studies are harder than the rest. They are the foundation for all other…
And, many have a clue at 21, and work very hard for good papers/presentations. It would be horribly unfair to compare them to this piece of garbage.
Entelechy on May 5, 2008 at 2:55 PM
Now, I’m never written a thesis, but are they usually double or triple spaced with wiiiide left and right margins and barely a paragraph on each page? Is that the norm?
dish on May 5, 2008 at 2:44 PM
This version was OCR’d so, without seeing an actual copy of t the original, we’ll have to give her the benefit of the doubt for odd spelling, punctuation, and formatting.
RushBaby on May 5, 2008 at 3:09 PM
[baldilocks on May 5, 2008 at 2:45 PM]
Thanks for the reminder, Baldilocks, and thanks for the link.
This is the excerpt I was remembering: “… Chapman [a CPUSA supporter] wrote, “Obama’s victory was more than a progressive move; it was a dialectical leap ushering in a qualitatively new era of struggle,” … “Marx once compared revolutionary struggle with the work of the mole, who sometimes burrows so far beneath the ground that he leaves no trace of his movement on the surface. This is the old revolutionary ‘mole,’ not only showing his traces on the surface but also breaking through.”
Dusty on May 5, 2008 at 3:10 PM
The wide thesis side margins are to reduce the possibility of the pages being cut off or obscured by the binding process.
Double spaced and triple spaced thesis pagination is a clever technique for making a seventy page thesis take 100 pages instead. Much like those computer books which stretch 50 pages into 500 to make the $50 price tag seem more bearable or a short shot glass to make a whiskey bottle go further.
If Mrs. Obambi’s language skills are suspect then the triple spacing may serve to allow room for translations to be added in English. That and perhaps a subconscious desire by her to illustrate and emphasize how the white spaces are conspiring to keep the black characters separated.
viking01 on May 5, 2008 at 3:14 PM
lol ebonics
pseudonominus on May 5, 2008 at 3:21 PM
So if Obama is in favor reparations for slavery, he can just write a check to Michelle.
pedestrian on May 5, 2008 at 3:30 PM
Entelechy on May 5, 2008 at 2:55 PM
I have to agree with you. Maybe you don’t know much by 18, but if you’re in college, you’ve really no excuse for knowing nothing by 21.
Blowback
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This isn’t helping her kids at all.
a capella on May 5, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Very interesting…
I assume that in most households, it’s the wife that drives the religious upbringing of the children. In my case, my father was Lutheran and my mother Catholic, and my sister and I were raised Catholic. Hitchens has a good point, that attending TUCC might have been Michelle’s choice, which would also explain why Obama has been so bad at distancing himself from Rev. Wright and the TUCC. No man wants to cross his wife.
Enrique on May 5, 2008 at 12:53 PM
‘Nuff said.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on May 5, 2008 at 12:57 PM
Hitch raises a good question, and I would be entertained to here, in his next speech, Obama says he can’t disown [fill in the blank] anymore then he can his own wife. To the point: in comparing Obama to someone else, I would think it safe to assume him closer in ideology to his chosen spouse then any other acquaintance. Michelle may be responsible for Pastorgate, but it doesn’t reflect well on Obama’s values if true.
Spirit of 1776 on May 5, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Nope… simpler than that… and more personal.
I keep spreading this, hoping someone will take up the call…
Obama, in his book, talks about how Wright helped him find his “identity”… which it turns out? Is a Fraud. If he had distanced himself from Wright early on, the BLACK community would have started to question his “blackness”… and once that happens, and the facts get out? He looses the Black vote.
He is ARAB American… and it was the ARABS who sold the Blacks into slavery.
Romeo13 on May 5, 2008 at 1:13 PM
So…is this why her thesis hasen’t been more widely dissected in the media? I had just assumed it was because there was nothing newsworthy there. But…if it was embarrasingly non-scholarly, or even readable, I sure can see why it hasn’t been criticized; it would take loads of tact to avoid seeming personally judgemental about the performance of a prize Diversity trophy:
Black.
Female.
Inteligent…(?)
pseudonominus on May 5, 2008 at 1:17 PM
I might consider never posting another internet comment, and moving under a pseudonym to Escanaba, Michigan, where I could operate as a seasonal deer hunting and ice fishing outfitter in total anonymity, if only to avoid having Hitchens comment publicly on my previous writing.
He is brutal. God bless him (yes, I did).
Jaibones on May 5, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Yeah, could you imagine ANY college proffesor having the Cojones to nail a Black Woman for a poor disertation on race? Even if it was basicly incoherent?
Romeo13 on May 5, 2008 at 1:24 PM
BS. Hitchens has zero proof that Obama does not agree with Wright. Zero. The evidence point to the contrary. His long association with Wright, his reluctance to break ties even after the video surfaced, his willingness to throw his grandmother under the bus and talk about “typical white people,” his association with Ayers and his own wife’s rhetoric all point to agreement with Wright’s view of the world and Hitchens is darn well smart enough to know it!
TheBigOldDog on May 5, 2008 at 1:32 PM
I would love to see the source of these numbers. Would like to spread them, but I need to have them substantiated first.
Zaire67 on May 5, 2008 at 1:34 PM
I had the feeling a while back that Michelle might have been instrumental in Barack’s association with Wright’s church, but a quick look at his Wiki entry shows that Barack joined it a year (1988) before meeting Michelle (1989).
It’s not unsurprising, though, that Barack would settle on Michelle courting, either. If anything, Michelle’s initial reticence was probably due to his not being outwardly radical enough.
It might be, however, that it was Michelle that kept Barack at TUCC. It’s possible that her desires — she does talk like she wears the pants in the family at least half the time — trumped Barack’s if he did consider switching chrches at some time over those twenty years.
But I doubt it. I seem to remember reading something about Barack’s association with that commie he met in Hawaii(?) who counselled him in the art of subterfuge when it came to rising to power. That would explain Hitchens’ suggestion that “and if the rest of his character seems to make this improbable” is nothing more than Barack’s okie doke.
Dusty on May 5, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Mr. Hitchens is a smart one.
I agreed with him about this last week
Entelechy on May 5, 2008 at 1:55 PM
It’s a valid point that Michelle Obama is only the first well publicized (by her own gaffes, initially) long-term relationship of anti-white bigotry that Obambi chose to attach himself. Revrum Wright is the latest example of Michelle’s and probably Obama’s true mindset.
I can understand why the Leftist media and Princeton University are reluctant to publicize Michelle’s thesis. If she’s illiterate and irrational yet still managed the passing grade(s) it will make preferential treatment, admissions, social promotion and degree(s) received at Princeton for reasons besides merit all too obvious.
viking01 on May 5, 2008 at 1:55 PM
During the Wright ‘dissertations’ last week, I did print out Michelle O’s thesis. It is pure rudimentary garbage, not at all material for completion of advanced studies. Mr. Hitchens is right on that account too.
Entelechy on May 5, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Entelechy, do you have a link where that thesis can be read?
Vanceone on May 5, 2008 at 2:06 PM
And when it comes down to it…if Obama was on our side, a Republican, I’d have no problem with him. But he’s not. He’s a a Dem first, and a crazyass lefty to boot.
Race doesn’t count with me as much as he thinks it does. It’s the policies and the party.
LtE126 on May 5, 2008 at 2:10 PM
Alas, the key lies in this
Black, and more than black…that’s the crux of it all. Michelle probably drove her husband towards this “more than black”, which was fine for lower offices, and is not acceptable, nor winnable for a presidency.
It is what destroyed the quest in the end. Not accepting who he was in the first place, trying to become what he wasn’t for 20 years, only to then throw his pastor under the bus, reverting back to all of a sudden being half white.
Fakery never works, and always reveals itself.
…
Mr. Obama is a phony, and a tragic figure. His wife’s precocious and calculated ambition/s have taken a good man into this abyss.
Entelechy on May 1, 2008 at 1:59 AM
Entelechy on May 5, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Vanceone, in the first paragraph, there are Parts 1-4 of the thesis. It takes a long time to print, as it’s scanned.
And, as Hitchens says “it’s not readable”, as it wasn’t written in any language. It’s a rudimentary mess. If the journalists w/b erudite, they’d have noticed a long time ago. Or maybe they’re erudite but in the pants with the Obamas.
Entelechy on May 5, 2008 at 2:20 PM
Lay off Faline. This conversation isn’t helping her fawns.
You people obviously have no clue how hard it is to be a millionaire in this country.
misterpeasea on May 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Hitchens links to it: Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community
Good luck. I actually read the whole thing, after which I drank heavily. As Hitchens notes, her command of the English language is sadly lacking; it’s on par with my command of Sanskrit. As to content, if every American read and understood this thesis, they would quickly divide into two camps: those who would proclaim Obama and spouse to be the long-awaited messiah through whom latent white liberal guilt would finally be expunged, and those who would puke.
I’m in the latter camp, and it wasn’t entirely due to the alcohol.
Splashman on May 5, 2008 at 2:26 PM
No matter how many times you post this, it’s still BS.
baldilocks on May 5, 2008 at 2:33 PM
I notice that whenever Romeo13 posts that nonsense he never posts the link. So I will.
Total unmitigated crap, it is. And it would be nice if Romeo 13 stopped spamming Obama posts with the disinformation.
baldilocks on May 5, 2008 at 2:36 PM
Oh and it is well-known that both black Africans and Arabs enslaved various tribes in Africa. That has nothing to do with Obama’s Luo heritage–a black African tribe. Try looking the tribe up at a site composed by someone who isn’t trying to hasten another big confrontation between Islam and Christianity by making sh*t up. There’s enough real stuff out there for that.
baldilocks on May 5, 2008 at 2:41 PM
I’d give her a break, as it’s an undergraduate paper. Who had a clue when they were 21 years old.
Paul-Cincy on May 5, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Thanks for the link to the thesis, I’ve always wondered about that.
Now, I’m never written a thesis, but are they usually double or triple spaced with wiiiide left and right margins and barely a paragraph on each page? Is that the norm?
dish on May 5, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Frank Marshall Davis is the guy’s name. Obama talks about him in Dreams from My Father.
baldilocks on May 5, 2008 at 2:45 PM
I’m generally inclined to agree, but the self-pitying attitude she exhibited in the paper seems, if anything, to have gotten more pronounced.
misterpeasea on May 5, 2008 at 2:54 PM
No way. Undergraduate studies are harder than the rest. They are the foundation for all other…
And, many have a clue at 21, and work very hard for good papers/presentations. It would be horribly unfair to compare them to this piece of garbage.
Entelechy on May 5, 2008 at 2:55 PM
This version was OCR’d so, without seeing an actual copy of t the original, we’ll have to give her the benefit of the doubt for odd spelling, punctuation, and formatting.
RushBaby on May 5, 2008 at 3:09 PM
[baldilocks on May 5, 2008 at 2:45 PM]
Thanks for the reminder, Baldilocks, and thanks for the link.
This is the excerpt I was remembering: “… Chapman [a CPUSA supporter] wrote, “Obama’s victory was more than a progressive move; it was a dialectical leap ushering in a qualitatively new era of struggle,” … “Marx once compared revolutionary struggle with the work of the mole, who sometimes burrows so far beneath the ground that he leaves no trace of his movement on the surface. This is the old revolutionary ‘mole,’ not only showing his traces on the surface but also breaking through.”
Dusty on May 5, 2008 at 3:10 PM
The wide thesis side margins are to reduce the possibility of the pages being cut off or obscured by the binding process.
Double spaced and triple spaced thesis pagination is a clever technique for making a seventy page thesis take 100 pages instead. Much like those computer books which stretch 50 pages into 500 to make the $50 price tag seem more bearable or a short shot glass to make a whiskey bottle go further.
If Mrs. Obambi’s language skills are suspect then the triple spacing may serve to allow room for translations to be added in English. That and perhaps a subconscious desire by her to illustrate and emphasize how the white spaces are conspiring to keep the black characters separated.
viking01 on May 5, 2008 at 3:14 PM
lol ebonics
pseudonominus on May 5, 2008 at 3:21 PM
So if Obama is in favor reparations for slavery, he can just write a check to Michelle.
pedestrian on May 5, 2008 at 3:30 PM
I have to agree with you. Maybe you don’t know much by 18, but if you’re in college, you’ve really no excuse for knowing nothing by 21.
Esthier on May 5, 2008 at 4:30 PM