Rather than recede with age, in many cases these 2004 skeptics’ concerns only deepened. And today, many of these 2004 figures have found a new cause in the 2020 election, embracing Trump’s claims about the results even if they are on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum. The movement is starting to split, as others refuse to align themselves with the president and his supporters, and even think it’s dangerous to do so.

But despite this current divide, both sides are still united in one conviction: They still think the democratic process is deeply flawed—enough to throw an election in 2004, and enough to do it again. Simon, who still questions the 2004 election but doesn’t buy Trump’s claims, says his own reaction to the president has been edifying. “I recognize the irony: Now I’m the one asking for more evidence,” he says. Still, he identifies with something at the core of even Trump’s wildest rants. “The general proposition that you can’t trust the system,” he says, “that is valid.”