The longtime infectious disease specialist was clearly nervous about some of the rush to reopen that he’d seen, noting the images on TV of “people congregating in bars, with no masks.” And he didn’t sugarcoat his anxiety about his boss—President Donald Trump—moving forward with plans to hold large-scale events, including in cities with new or recurring outbreaks such as Tulsa, Oklahoma and Phoenix, Arizona.

Asked if he would personally attend, Fauci said “No.”

“I’m in a high risk category. Personally, I would not. Of course not,” he said, adding that when it came to Trump’s rallies “outside is better than inside, no crowd is better than crowd” and “crowd is better than big crowd.”