VICE News: A lot of folks are acting like the January 6 insurrection is a past event—like, this horrible thing that happened, can never happen again, and probably won’t happen again. As a historian who has looked at a lot of these revolutions, do you think we’re through the worst of this?

Mike Duncan: I don’t think we’re through the worst of it at all. I’m well primed to be sort of pessimistic, and everywhere around me I see signs of decay and things falling apart. And when you just steep yourself in great historical revolutions, I can see all of these signs everywhere. It’s sometimes hard to tell if I’ve just primed myself to see it or if it’s actually really happening. So, with that caveat in mind, I do think that there is a lot breaking down. I absolutely do not think that January 6 is the highwater mark. Of course not.

Do I think something like this will happen again at some point in the next 10 years? Yeah, absolutely I do. Because the model is there. It’s been demonstrated to get pretty close to its objectives. And even when it didn’t work, most of the people who organized it and orchestrated it, and actually wanted it to happen—and I’m not just talking about like the Oath Keepers and sort of the rank-and-file soldiers on the ground; I’m talking about guys like [Texas Senator] Ted Cruz and [Missouri Senator Josh] Hawley and [former president Donald] Trump, and everybody who was cheering it on, whether it’s on Newsmax or on Fox News or on right-wing media—none of those people were held accountable.