Holder has always had a radical streak, going back to his days as a Malcolm X admirer at Columbia University. Still, he allows, it’s a measure of the Trumpification of politics that a cautious former attorney general is calling the president the “orange man.”

“I probably would not have done that while I was attorney general. I didn’t have an orange man who I was serving under, but, I mean, I would not have said that about a former president, for instance, while I was attorney general,” Holder said. “But now, I’m just a citizen and I’ve got the full range of my voice back.”