Returning to the room, Luntz said to the group, “You guys are dialing them both down.” What was going on?

“They’re lying — they’re speaking words but they don’t mean anything,” said one.

“They both do a great job of making you not want to pick either one of them,” said another.

“It sounds like just so much bulls—t, over and over and over,” said yet another.

As the session neared its end, one woman noted that Trump already has his base behind him but seems to be doing nothing to reach beyond the base to appeal to people like her. “I don’t see any movement by him to try to change to create a different image for people who are uncertain,” she said.

“He is not talking to you?” Luntz asked.

“He is not talking to me,” the woman said.