Donald Trump spoke about his faith this week in an interview with columnist Cal Thomas, boasting of his “great relationships” with ministers and the clergy and predicting he will do very well with evangelicals in the general election.

“I’m going to treat my religion, which is Christian, with great respect and care,” Trump said in the interview. And on who Jesus is to him, Trump answered, “Jesus to me is somebody I can think about for security and confidence. Somebody I can revere in terms of bravery and in terms of courage and, because I consider the Christian religion so important, somebody I can totally rely on in my own mind.”

Trump, over the course of the election, has played up his Presbyterian faith in typical Trump fashion as a way to appeal to evangelicals — praising the Bible by saying it is even better than his book The Art of the Deal and answering that his favorite verse is “an eye for an eye.” But throughout his career in public life before his presidential run, Trump’s actual views of religion and his own personal faith have been difficult to pin down.