Buried deep in the transcript of Donald Trump’s interview with The Washington Post’s editorial board on Monday is a question and response that it’s hard not to see as neatly encapsulating the entire Trump phenomenon.

Post publisher Fred Ryan asked Trump if he would consider using a tactical nuclear strike against the forces of the Islamic State, were he president. Trump responded that he didn’t want to “start the process of nuclear,” then reminding the editors that he was “a counter-puncher.”

“Remember, one thing that everybody has said, I’m a counter-puncher,” Trump said. “Rubio hit me. Bush hit me. When I said low energy, he’s a low-energy individual, he hit me first. He spent, by the way — he spent 18 million dollars’ worth of negative ads on me. That’s putting…”

Ryan jumped in. “This is about ISIS,” he reminded Trump. “You would not use a tactical nuclear weapon against ISIS?”