“I’m afraid Mr. Trump thinks of waterboarding, or worse, as a kind of punishment, like a sentence — as you said, revenge or reprisals,” he told Fox News’ Brian Kilmeade on Tuesday. “That’s not what its purpose is. The purpose of it is not to take revenge for past acts. It’s to figure out what to do now to get intelligence to stop future attacks.”

Research has shown that “enhanced interrogation tactics” like waterboarding don’t actually work. But that doesn’t seem to faze Trump, who’s said that even if torture isn’t successful in extracting information from suspects, “they deserve it anyway.”