Speaking at The Daily Beast’s Hero Summit on Thursday, Kelly said New York had a plan if terrorists attacked Macy’s or another big department store in Manhattan. “We practice what we call active shooter response,” he said. “This has been since the aftermath of Columbine, really,” he said, referring to the 1999 shooting at a Colorado high school by a group of disaffected loners who called themselves the “trench-coat mafia.” “We deploy about 100 police cars every day to malls,” Kelly said.

Kelly—who appeared on stage with Robert Griffin, vice president of Industry Solutions IBM; Jane Harman, director, president, and CEO of the Woodrow Wilson Center; Gen. Michael V. Hayden, principal of The Chertoff Group; and moderator Catherine Herridge of Fox News—was also very critical of the Kenyan response to the Westgate siege. The Kenyan authorities, in Kelly’s view, did a poor job of managing public perceptions. He said there was a lot of misinformation in those first hours and days of the hostage crisis that brought the world’s attention to al Qaeda’s Somalia affiliate, al-Shabaab.