To cleanse the palate, the clip is long so I’ll let you get right to it. Except to note two things: (1) If you’re tempted to quit on it, note that it gets more contentious as it goes along, culminating with Shapiro walking off the set. And (2) how often do you see a man admit that he lost a televised exchange on politics?

For the record, Neil isn’t a leftist, as Ben acknowledged afterward on Twitter. He’s the chairman of Britain’s Spectator magazine and has been described as, ahem, “ultra-Thatcherite” by the Guardian.