Homeland Security secretary Alejandro Mayorkas gave an odd definition of what he considers a “secure border” during a Sunday interview on NBC.

“It is, in the context in which we are working, it is maximizing the resources that we have available to us to deliver the most effective results,” Mayorkas said after NBC host Chuck Todd asked him to define the term. Mayorkas has consistently maintained throughout his tenure in the Biden administration that the border is secure, even as there have been record numbers of illegal border crossings and drug smuggling.