There may not always be an England

posted at 7:11 pm on December 6, 2012 by J.E. Dyer

Q.  When does the British government subsidize a TV channel that carries the rants of anti-gay religious fanatics?

A.  When the TV channel is run by Islamist extremists.

OK, that one was a softball.  But it’s worth pointing out a telling contrast in the British government’s stance on people’s right to think unapproved thoughts about homosexuality.

Here is what Mr. Abdullah Hakim Quick, a speaker who has been featured on Britain’s Ramadan TV, has to say about gays:

Abdullah Hakim Quick … has been condemned by New Zealand’s broadcasting authority for his anti-gay tirades, which state that homosexuals must be killed, that they are “sick” and “not natural”, and that “Muslims are going to have to take a stand [against homosexuals] and it’s not enough to call names.” He continues to hold this position: “They said ‘what is the Islamic position [on homosexuality]?’ And I told them. Put my name in the paper. The punishment is death. And I’m not going to change this religion.”

The National Health Service’s North East London & the City agency responded to this editorial posture by subsidizing Ramadan TV to the tune of £3,200.  Sam Westrop at the Gatestone Institute (first link) gives other examples of bloodthirsty extremism from the talking heads on Ramadan TV.  Homosexuality, however, is the topic that highlights the unequal treatment now being accorded to citizens of the UK.

Islamist anti-gay ranters may find their media outlets subsidized by British government agencies, but foster parents who merely can’t agree to endorse homosexuality to children under the age of 10 are denied any further opportunities to take in foster children.  Such was the judgment of the Derby City Council against Owen and Eunice Johns in 2010.  The council’s decision on the matter was upheld by the British High Court in February 2011.

The organization Christian Concern summarized the court’s findings at the time (all emphases in original):

[T]he [High Court] judges stated:

  • ·         That if children are placed with parents who have traditional Christian views like the Johns “there may well be a conflict with the local authority’s duty to safeguard and promote the welfare of looked-after children”,
  • ·         That there is a tension between the equality provisions concerning religious discrimination and those concerning sexual orientation. Yet, as regards fostering, “the equality provisions concerning sexual orientation should take precedence”,
  • ·         That a local authority can require positive attitudes to be demonstrated towards homosexuality,
  • ·         That there is no religious discrimination against the Johns because they were being excluded from fostering due to their moral views on sexual ethics and not their Christian beliefs (This is incredible and very disingenuous as the Johns moral views cannot be separated from their religious beliefs), and
  • ·         That “Article 9 [of the European Human Rights Act] only provides a ‘qualified’ right to manifest religious belief and … this will be particularly so where a person in whose care a child is placed wishes to manifest a belief that is inimical to the interests of children”.

So, it is clear that if you are Christian and don’t endorse homosexuality, you will be denied participation in government-regulated activities – even if you state, as Eunice Johns did, that you have no animus against gays.  But if you are an Islamist organization and your featured speakers advocate death for homosexuals, you can be subsidized by a government agency – that is, by the UK taxpayer.

Of course, when one thing goes wrong with a society, everything else does too.  It’s worth noting the news that some Jewish students at the University of Edinburgh have had to decide to leave school, due to an alarmingly unpleasant campus atmosphere created by radical Islamists and anti-Israel groups.  This is reminiscent of Germany in the 1930s, among other things.

Scotland, like England, once produced philosophers of freedom, tolerance, rationality, and equality before the law.  But the noble British tradition from which America drew so much is close to extinction in its birthplace.  It’s easy to blame radical Muslims for this, but the truth is that the Brits, like the rest of the West, have done it to themselves with a nihilistic radical-left philosophy.  The same city councilmen who denied foster parenting to the Johns couple would quite probably dismiss Mr. Quick’s anti-gay rant with a hand-wave and a naively Orwellian phrase or two about “diversity.”  The reign of irrational, hysterical sentiment is complete – and every word in its charter document was written by the Western left.

John Bull was once a canny and tough old fellow.  But he set aside principle for sentiment, and today, he is on life-support.

J.E. Dyer’s articles have appeared at Hot Air, Commentary’s “contentions,Patheos, The Daily Caller, The Jewish Press, and The Weekly Standard online.

Her home blog is The Optimistic Conservative. She also writes for the new blog Liberty Unyielding.


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You do not, I repeat do not want to move to Russia. It is one of the scariest places I’ve ever been too, with the most unfriendly, unhelpful people you will ever see.

JPeterman on December 6, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Not entirely surprised to hear that, though a bit curious of your experience there that made it among the scariest places you’ve traveled…

I’d like to visit St. Petersburg, but have never heard that it is anything but difficult for an American to travel there, even if one knows the language or has connections to a native…

Gingotts on December 6, 2012 at 10:23 PM

GhoulAid on December 6, 2012 at 9:24 PM

Don’t get your hopes up, princess.

Solaratov on December 6, 2012 at 10:23 PM

You must be a stormfront fan too.

Go pound sand.

Solaratov on December 6, 2012 at 10:21 PM

Oh how cute, the liberal coward telling someone else to do something.

Go pound the table and cry some more, b!tch.

MelonCollie on December 6, 2012 at 10:29 PM

MelonCollie on December 6, 2012 at 10:29 PM

I should think that your most intimate association with a coward is when you look in the mirror, nancy boy.

You freakin’ liberals/leftists are a pack of clowns.

Solaratov on December 6, 2012 at 10:35 PM

Not entirely surprised to hear that, though a bit curious of your experience there that made it among the scariest places you’ve traveled…

I’d like to visit St. Petersburg, but have never heard that it is anything but difficult for an American to travel there, even if one knows the language or has connections to a native…

Gingotts on December 6, 2012 at 10:23 PM

The only place I visited was St.Petersburg and we ended up only staying 2 days. And since we have some commenters here from Russia, I don’t want to say too much. The people were very unfriendly and seemed to go out of their way making you feel unwelcome.

We spent some time at the Peterhof where they not only did not allow pictures, but take your camera away from you. Same thing at Hermitage museum.

And then we heard horror stories about tourists being detained, robbed, clothes stolen off their backs. Plus they use the Cyrillic alphabet for everything.

JPeterman on December 6, 2012 at 10:39 PM

With the United States following the European style of progressivism,there may not always be an America. England has not hoarded all the stupidity, there is plenty to go around. For example, declaring war on terrorism and then funding the terrorist, or the war on poverty where the government make it a financial burden for the poor to get off welfare, or the hundreds of give away programs designed to bankrupt the country. We here have just as many problems as England and ours are multiplying everyday.

savage24 on December 6, 2012 at 10:47 PM

JPeterman on December 6, 2012 at 10:39 PM

Cyrillic alphabet… the bastards!

Well, I’m fine with Cyrillc but most of the stuff is unsurprising. As far as friendliness of the people, usually I hear that most commoners are friendly enough, but those in positions of authority enjoy wielding it far too much for bribes or just to screw people…

When was this? And have you been to Ukraine? Everything I hear is that it’s far easier to travel there. Still some pickpockets and bribe-seekers, but not nearly as bad…

Gingotts on December 6, 2012 at 10:52 PM

MelonCollie on December 6, 2012 at 10:20 PM

I agree. I feel for my nieces and nephews who have to traverse this landmine filled country. Can’t say this, can’t say that..religion?? Don’t even think about it. Believe in only in the government and what they tell you. Don’t get me wrong. Government is there for a reason. There is a place and need. Unfortunately our populous is ignorant to the reaches. We have 3 branches…Judicial, Executive and Legislative, in that order. I can put money on it that most 20yr olds cant put that together. Sad. Decline. So we fight.

Wileygrl3 on December 6, 2012 at 10:58 PM

JPeterman on December 6, 2012 at 10:39 PM

I had a similar experience in Murmansk once.

You are Slovakian, right?

Norwegian on December 6, 2012 at 10:58 PM

I should think that your most intimate association with a coward is when you look in the mirror, nancy boy.

You freakin’ liberals/leftists are a pack of clowns.

Solaratov on December 6, 2012 at 10:35 PM

That’s freakin’ hilarious coming from a spoiled retard like you whose never come closer to a racist than seeing a fat old redneck on his porch, as you drove through a small town in the middle of nowhere.

And nice try projecting your chickensh!t leftism. You’re exactly like the perverts who squall about “Christian Sharia”, when they’ve never actually been oppressed in their lives, and would cry for the “Christian Sharia” back home if their worthless hides were paradropped into a place like Iran.

MelonCollie on December 6, 2012 at 10:59 PM

I agree. I feel for my nieces and nephews who have to traverse this landmine filled country. Can’t say this, can’t say that..religion?? Don’t even think about it. Believe in only in the government and what they tell you.

Wileygrl3 on December 6, 2012 at 10:58 PM

Don’t even get me started. And our personal morality? Not at all unlike that of a naughty little toddler who wants to peddle his tricycle out into the street the minute his mommy isn’t looking. He didn’t even learn from watching his playmate get hit by a semi while doing exactly the same thing.

The only way my generation will learn is when they personally look up to see the oncoming car, as it were.

IMHO the best thing God could do to turn us around is to make our foolishness near-immediately fatal, because we don’t care jack cr@p for delayed consequences. Like for instance a STD that made AIDS look like chicken pox, and could not be stopped by any ‘protection’ short of total abstinence. Or a strain of marijuana that with prolonged use made you suddenly keel over dying, culminating with the deaths of thousands of people in a matter of days all across the nation.

MelonCollie on December 6, 2012 at 11:05 PM

Gingotts on December 6, 2012 at 10:52 PM

Been to Ukraine many times because it was so close to us. Great people, great food, great train service, beautiful Carpathian mountains. It is not unusual to meet up with locals where they invite you into their homes for a meal. Same thing goes for Poland.

My brother dragged me to St.Petersburg in 2009. It took 6 months to get a visa and we stayed for 2 lousy days.

JPeterman on December 6, 2012 at 11:11 PM

MelonCollie on December 6, 2012 at 11:05 PM

I know it’s disturbing. Yet what we can’t ever turn our backs on is our faith in God. That is the moral compass we so lack today. I know that so many will bash my comments but I don’t care. Expose truth and see how the rats will flee. God could do a scare-the-faith-back into moment. But I don’t believe that’s how God works (my opinion). If our own immorality does not scare and humble us…then we are lost. However, when immorality around us does not scare our faith away, then we have won.

Wileygrl3 on December 6, 2012 at 11:18 PM

MelonCollie on December 6, 2012 at 11:05 PM

Of course, if that were to happen, you could be certain that anybody who vaguely or explicitly pointed out the causes for these diseases would be branded a racist/sexist/homophobe/bigot/Nazi and America would look away pretending it didn’t exist and/or had nothing to do with lifestyle.

You’d even have “scientists” go out in public declaring that this hypothetical disease had nothing to do with lifestyle and that everybody was equally at risk… Why wouldn’t they? We haven’t had many real scientists in years, most who call themselves that these days are shills for whatever government program funds their latest grant.

Nah, I think if God is going to sort this, it won’t be by any indirect means. I look to Israel and see good and bad figs. I see the swamers swarming everywhere. I see the governmental beast growing in power almost everywhere. There’s going to be a rough 5 month (Rev 9:5, Matt 24:22) period ahead, before most of this generation sees any sort of light.

Gingotts on December 6, 2012 at 11:21 PM

I had a similar experience in Murmansk once.

You are Slovakian, right?

Norwegian on December 6, 2012 at 10:58 PM

Good to know that you understand. My brother and I still have discussions on why the people are the way they are. Suppressed for too long? Horrible weather?

I was born in Bratislava, Slovakia, but we were moved by the state to Prague for my fathers job when I was 5. My parents are now back in Slovakia after finally reclaiming my grandmom’s farm that the Nazi’s took which was then taken over by the Soviet’s. They finally got it back in 1999.

Now every liberal troll needs to read that paragraph I wrote above and think how great the Commies really were.

JPeterman on December 6, 2012 at 11:26 PM

JPeterman on December 6, 2012 at 11:11 PM

Ah, thank you, I’m pleased to hear that. I’ve been looking more and more at visiting Ukraine. (No visa requirement for American citizens making short-term stays either.) I might have to come on here and bug you asking for recommendations sometime in the future if/when I get closer to making more specific plans.

Gingotts on December 6, 2012 at 11:29 PM

Gingotts on December 6, 2012 at 11:29 PM

Not a problem. If things get bleak here, I may go back and become tour guide!

JPeterman on December 6, 2012 at 11:40 PM

Oh no! /s

DarkCurrent on December 7, 2012 at 12:05 AM

Oh no! /s

DarkCurrent on December 7, 2012 at 12:05 AM

“There might not always be a Peoples Republic of China”

I’ll bet that made you sad inside. :(

DFCtomm on December 7, 2012 at 12:49 AM

We have 3 branches…Judicial, Executive and Legislative, in that order. I can put money on it that most 20yr olds cant put that together. Sad. Decline. So we fight.

Wileygrl3 on December 6, 2012 at 10:58 PM

I thought it was left, lefter and leftest?

Alberta_Patriot on December 7, 2012 at 2:56 AM

I’ll bet that made you sad inside. :(

DFCtomm on December 7, 2012 at 12:49 AM

Heh, no. There won’t always be a PRC, but China will probably last as long as humanity :)

DarkCurrent on December 7, 2012 at 4:09 AM

Damnit, even a topic dedicated to England and you still choose the flag of the union!

EnglishRogue on December 7, 2012 at 5:44 AM

I know a British ex-pat who says the UK is no longer the country most Americans think it is. If you’re an Anglaphile, the England you admire is a distant memory. Native Brits are leaving the country in droves.

DRayRaven on December 6, 2012 at 7:17 PM

Do you read The Telegraph?

There was an article published yesterday about the response to the ‘brain drain’ of Doctors leaving Britain for pastures new and the solution was to train fewer Doctors!

There will always be an England, but a pale imitation of what it once was .

EnglishRogue on December 7, 2012 at 6:02 AM

So, it is clear that if you are Christian and don’t endorse homosexuality, you will be denied participation in government-regulated activities – even if you state, as Eunice Johns did, that you have no animus against gays. But if you are an Islamist organization and your featured speakers advocate death for homosexuals, you can be subsidized by a government agency – that is, by the UK taxpayer.

Wow.

ITguy on December 7, 2012 at 7:49 AM

When Britain, a land that had pubs and shooting ranges in the same establishment, decided to confiscate guns from the civilian population, the place had put a target on its chest.

Then only criminals had guns, and got more of them in via many means as an island has more coast than can be defended against the invasion of the ones and twos and crates of weapons during peacetime.

When Britain decided that defending yourself or your property was an assault on those attacking you or stealing from you, then there is no liberty left to defend. What you make, in life, is representative of your skill and time you invested to acquire such goods: they are the products of your liberty.

Is it any wonder that the State can condemn one sort of thinking on the one hand and then subsidize it on another? Without touchstones of liberty and accountability you get unaccountable government. You get tyranny. It has been centuries since the single government of England fell… and while the products of what makes a durable government are durable lessons, they must be taught and followed for them to work. Sadly the West is giving up on the hard business of teaching children not just to learn but to think upon what they have learned. Yet the lessons of history are obvious if you but teach them and ask ‘what does this mean for our time, for our place, and for the nature of man?’

Unable to ask such questions, we will reap the bounty of sorrow until it comes to watering day for the Tree of Liberty.

ajacksonian on December 7, 2012 at 8:05 AM

Who cares about England?

Dante on December 7, 2012 at 8:28 AM

Damnit, even a topic dedicated to England and you still choose the flag of the union!

EnglishRogue on December 7, 2012 at 5:44 AM

Yep. Full of fail, as the kids say.

Dante on December 7, 2012 at 8:29 AM

Now every liberal troll needs to read that paragraph I wrote above and think how great the Commies really were. JPeterman on December 6, 2012 at 11:26 PM

Don’t give them any ideas…

Akzed on December 7, 2012 at 9:17 AM

There’s still hope.

Akzed on December 7, 2012 at 9:24 AM

Just a few points,i don’t know why the word England keeps being used and not the U.K. ,and then using the Union Jack to accompany it.

Ramadan TV is broadcast during the fasting month of Ramadan.

The NHS paid for public health advice.From dealing with those exempt,like the elderly,diabetic and pregnant women,but also the effects of fasting for a month
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_078409

They do the same with Christmas-when we all get drunk and Bombfire night when we all set fire to eachother.You can criticize this as anannystate.

Apparently during this time huge numbers of muslims watch these specific programs which include cooking show’s.

Saudi Arabia has put a fatwa on it and other muslims countries have
got angry about some the issues.
This is because they used actor’s to portray the story of Ramadan and because they have shown Saudi women by a car,in support of women driving.
If there was homophobic rants then there are systems in place,like this,
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/media/news/a440416/asian-radio-station-fined-gbp4k-over-homophobic-statements.html

It is a bit of a stretch to link this to adoption but it has allowed
the anti British rhetoric so common on this site.

It has nothing to do with Americans and please don’t lecture us on terrorism.
This will lead me to bring up the IRA and your ‘terrorist hater’the charming Peter King a politician who funded this terrorist group and still believes that is fine because they didn’t kill American’s.

mags on December 7, 2012 at 1:44 PM

Just a few points,i don’t know why the word England keeps being used and not the U.K. ,and then using the Union Jack flag to accompany it.

Anorak off.

EnglishRogue on December 7, 2012 at 2:29 PM

EnglishRogue on December 7, 2012 at 2:29 PM

What? Your point?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack

mags on December 7, 2012 at 4:05 PM

JPeterman on December 6, 2012 at 11:26 PM

Cool – Always nice to see fellow Europeans here.

I was in Kosice a few years back. Would love to go back to explore the Tatra mountains one day.

Norwegian on December 7, 2012 at 4:50 PM

This is how it usually goes,posters proved wrong,end of conversation.

mags on December 8, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Comment pages: 1 2