The Ph.D bust: America’s awful job market for young scientists
I am by no means the first person to make this point. But I was compelled to try and illustrate it after reading a report from Inside Higher Ed on this weekend’s gloomy gathering of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. In short, job prospects for young science Ph.D.’s haven’t been looking so hot these last few years, not only in the life sciences, which have been weak for some time, but also in fields like engineering.
The graphs below, drawn from National Science Foundation data and some of my own calculations, depict Ph.D. employment at graduation. It’s not a perfect measure of the labor market for young science talent — ideally we’d have data on graduates nine months or a year out of school, since some people need a little extra time to job hunt. But looking at these figures over time, it seems pretty obvious that there’s no great run on trained scientists in this country.
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Why would we need scientists?
We have our emotions to rule and guide us, no matter what the facts lead to as valid conclusions…
Why should we research anymore? The MBAs (turns head; spits) have ruined many good research labs, starting with Bell Labs, because there was no short term profit in them…in spite of all the great things that came out of Bell Labs…transistor, etc.
We won’t have many doctors and we won’t have scientists. I’m thinking that investing in witch doctor supplies might be a good business.
ProfShadow on February 24, 2013 at 10:16 PM
It would be nice to know if the number of PhD students is increasing faster than population growth, if those data hold true by individual institution, and how those numbers break down comparing national vs. international students.
TexasDan on February 24, 2013 at 10:39 PM
Colleges to young scientists: Bazinga!
thebrokenrattle on February 24, 2013 at 10:45 PM
Received my PhD in 1989. It was true back then.
Valiant on February 24, 2013 at 10:51 PM
the job market is awful for a lot more than PhDs. I have several friends that had to scratch and claw to find jobs after they completed their dissertations. Very difficult and yes, many are doing prolonged post-doc work. Not because they want to, but because they have to.
ted c on February 24, 2013 at 10:56 PM
I get multiple emails every week from international students looking for work here in the U.S. Very few, relatively, from U.S. citizens. Again, I’d love to know how these unemployment statistics relate to the increasing influx of foreign students, and whether they get counted even if they have already overstayed the student visa.
TexasDan on February 24, 2013 at 11:05 PM
Research positions in the US are basically open to the entire world one way or another. The supposed “STEM shortage” has been nothing but a way for companies to increase the selection pool and push down wages. Everything is so specialized, it is very difficult to find someone with the exact skills/experience that you need, but by opening up the applicant pool several times over, you have a better chance of finding it, rather than training up.
This is why Americans shy away from STEM.
WisCon on February 24, 2013 at 11:14 PM
Why pay an American scientist, when you can bring one over on a H1-B visa, pay them less than half, and get to treat them like slaves?
Why would an American bust their ass and budget to get that science or engineering PhD, given the above?
A sane country, given a persistant 20%+ unemployment rate, would end visa programs that took jobs from their citizens, crack down on illegals, and greatly curtail legal immigration to only job creators.
But it’s been a long time since we’ve been a sane nation.
Rebar on February 25, 2013 at 12:22 AM
Wait…I thought the Real Problem With America was that we didn’t have enough PhDs in science and math and we needed to open immigration to more foreigners with PhDs?
Jaibones on February 25, 2013 at 12:45 AM
They have a link at the bottom for American versus immigrant job prospects, which isn’t quite what you asked, but related. As for those emails, they can often be like spam – a low-risk way of spit-balling. That you don’t get spam from Americans doesn’t say much about those who actually get jobs.
As I said to the friend who made me aware of this article, in a free market, “There’s a shortage” is just another way of saying, “But I don’t want to pay THAT much!”
calbear on February 25, 2013 at 12:47 AM
And that is why I left science for manufacturing. I’d have to get a PhD to make the same money in science. You have masters grads doing basic bench chemistry and biochemistry. Its absurd.
tom daschle concerned on February 25, 2013 at 8:18 AM
Where I work there are four labs and between them there is only one PhD. I asked why and was told that they just didn’t want to pay the extra money that a PhD demanded.
Dr. Frank Enstine on February 25, 2013 at 8:46 AM
I have a Masters in Mechanical engineering and I refused to go for my PhD in Mechanical engineering despite that my university offered me free tuition and teaching assistant for the PhD program. I did not want to stay in Academia but rather wanted to work in the industrial world and I knew that a PhD in engineering would not give me any significant advantage in the practical engineering that the industries require… If you are not going to do pure research and development then a PhD in a scientific field or an engineering field is on overkill and over qualification…
mnjg on February 25, 2013 at 9:02 AM
That is a LIE… If someone works in the US on an H1-B visa then the company is forced by law to pay him/her the prevailing wages for his/her occupation in the US market i.e. they get paid the same as an American in the same job.
mnjg on February 25, 2013 at 9:11 AM
Well.. If you are asking six figures right out of school, then of course companies are going to look for a cheaper alternative.
Illinidiva on February 25, 2013 at 9:12 AM
I’ve been saying this for a long time. We need to send ALL the “guest workers” HOME.
dogsoldier on February 25, 2013 at 9:51 AM
No, it’s a FACT. I have seen this everywhere as both an engineer and as a manager of Engineers. Companies get away with this by using a variety of techniques.
dogsoldier on February 25, 2013 at 9:56 AM
I’d like to compare the results on MS degree holders. Not everyone needs a doctorate, especially engineers.
alwaysfiredup on February 25, 2013 at 10:14 AM
Is that how it actually works, or is that just how it’s supposed to work?
alwaysfiredup on February 25, 2013 at 10:15 AM
1) That is one of those laws that looks good on the surface but crumbles upon closer inspection. Many companies prefer immigrants because not only are they under their thumb due to visa status, they can pay them the low end of “prevailing wages.” (Also, does the law account for wage increases, or can they keep paying the same wages they did a few years prior, even if they’re no longer “prevailing”?)
2) “Prevailing wages” are determined by supply and demand. More supply, smaller wages.
Not for doctors, lawyers, executives, etc. For doctors, you can’t even be trained in another country without going through it all again here. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we have a health care cost crisis but no technology cost crisis. Why is it only engineers who should be subject to a worldwide market instead of an American one?
I’ve worked at many places where Ph.D.s are hired because the labs want their work taken seriously, but then given 100% sub-Ph.D.-level work, because that’s the work that actually needed doing. So I guess different labs have different hiring patterns.
calbear on February 25, 2013 at 11:17 AM
Thread winner. This is basically what it boils down to, minus all the political hoo-hah. The economics.
MelonCollie on February 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM