“Not believing in God makes life more precious”
“I would go to a carol service or a friend’s wedding, and there would be so much about it that I really liked – the togetherness, the rituals – but I just couldn’t get past the God bit.” Atheism has been caricatured as a cold, empty position, he says, “but for me, my not believing in God if anything makes my life more precious, knowing that we are here for such a tiny amount of time.”
The Sunday Assembly may be godless, but a churchgoer who stumbled through the wrong door would find much they recognised.
The service opens with a song, led by Evans and an enthusiastic band at the front; instead of a hymn, however, it is “Don’t Stop Me Now” by Queen (“We’ve chosen something that allows hamming it up to the max”). The service features a reading, a moment of reflective silence, even a collection to pay for the rental of the church, during which people are invited to turn in the pews and greet those sitting beside and behind them. The plan in future is to engage members in community-based good works.
Blowback
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I know you’ve been converted to atheism away from some form of Christianity but seriously, how can you have been a Christian yet never ever encountered any theological discussion about Old Testament laws and traditions etc vs New Testament ones?
gwelf on February 4, 2013 at 12:00 PM
“Meaning” is not a matter of opinion, by definition, you idiot. Sure, you can try to lie to yourself about anything but if you espouse a world-view of finite existence in a finite universe then you cannot logically argue for anything that has meaning in such a meaningless universe.
Sure, you can claim you have meaning all day long to help convince yourself of something you know to be untrue, but that doesn’t help you and it most certainly doesn’t give meaning to a meaningless existence. If you truly believed what you claim then you would view yourself as having no restrictions on your behavior the same way that lower animals have no restrictions outside of their survival instinct – but you are too advanced to have to rely on a survival instinct for a meaningless existence, so you should be even freer than any of the lower animals in doing whatever the heck you felt like doing.
But, azzwipes like you love to claim they believe in finitude and then spend their meaningless and annoying lives claiming that they still have meaning (self-assigned, of course … LOL) and never live out the animal existences they logically argue for.
I’ll say one thing, you are clearly an error in the trial and error of evolution. That might hold some meaning if it weren’t for the inevitable end of information in the finite, physical universe in either a heat death or the big crunch.
ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 4, 2013 at 12:00 PM
I’m a conservative libertarian, your assumption is incorrect.
SauerKraut537 on February 4, 2013 at 12:02 PM
Evangelical atheists in the Western tradition have the great fortune of having been born into cultures and societies which have Judeo/Christian foundations.
gwelf on February 4, 2013 at 12:03 PM
As the Jewish scholar in residence for the next 3 minutes, I’ll answer:
1. The married woman is on trial for adultery under very unique circumstances.
2. This form of trial (“Mei Sotah” in Hebrew), can occur whether the woman is pregnant or not. What you are reading in the verses refers to an internal collapse of her internal abdominal organs. There is no reference to a fetus.
3. There is nothing poisonous per se in the water. The outcome – both whether she is innocent or guilty – is miraculous.
4. Torah law does not distinguish under any circumstances of capital crime whether a woman is pregnant or not. A pregnant woman found guilty of murder will be subject to the death penalty just the same.
Shy Guy on February 4, 2013 at 12:06 PM
Like with gay ‘activists’, atheists are most prevalent where there is basically no consequences for publicly proclaiming themselves higher than God (like the one on this thread), mocking that which they are unworthy to speak of, and generally making complete a$$es of themselves.
You’ll notice that in Islamic countries atheists, like feminists, are quiet little mice. That is because if they tried to do something like “Piss Mohammed”, their lifespan would be measured in minutes.
MelonCollie on February 4, 2013 at 12:07 PM
The founders generally agreed that the Constitution was only fit to govern a people who would essentially govern themselves because they were a moral people. In the long view of history this has been the purview of religious institutions and religious associations.
What institutions do you see replacing these to perform this essential task on society?
gwelf on February 4, 2013 at 12:08 PM
Not believing in God means that you accept that your life is nothing more than a chance grouping of symbiotic bacterium and associated tissue mass. Not much to get excited about when your life has no more meaning than that of a mindless bacterium on the grand scale of things..
HotAirian on February 4, 2013 at 12:09 PM
You’re a liar as well as a haughty fool.
I tried to reconcile the differences between conservativism and libertarianism when the latter became the Pot-and-Isolation Club. There was no doing it. I’m a conservative EX-libertarian who had to leave because he couldn’t advocate opening the Pandora’s Box of legalized drugs on a society with no self-control.
MelonCollie on February 4, 2013 at 12:09 PM
Beautiful. That one is going in my quote file.
MelonCollie on February 4, 2013 at 12:10 PM
More proof that the atheists are living off the ideas of the believing.
All the same ideas, just changing the person who gets the credit, from God to themselves. Atheist: it is all about me.
astonerii on February 4, 2013 at 12:12 PM
This is the irrational leap to hope that Schaeffer talks about.
If the only way you can assign value to your life is by dredging up some self-generated sentimentality, that’s pretty thin gruel. That’s all you’re left with, of course, in atheism; have fun discoursing on beauty and evil when a)they’re both subjective and illusory if we’re just a random assemblage of gluons and whatnot and b)you know deeply in your core that they do, indeed, matter. Very much. As does life. Which is why people don’t actually become utterly hopeless even when holding onto a philosophy that, were it remotely honest, would scorn even the concept of hope.
TexasDan on February 4, 2013 at 12:13 PM
Only if one first rules out the possibility of emergent phenomena in a mass of symbiotic bacteria.
DarkCurrent on February 4, 2013 at 12:14 PM
Ah, atheists. You won’t believe because you can’t.
“For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And the cleverness of the clever I will set aside.”
Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, so that, just as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.”” – 1 Corinthians 1: 18-31
Othniel on February 4, 2013 at 12:14 PM
“The universe was created with me in mind.”
Good Lt on February 4, 2013 at 12:20 PM
And revolves around you, apparently.
Though even I don’t think you’re THAT obese.
MelonCollie on February 4, 2013 at 12:21 PM
No. It was created just for me and when I’m dead it will cease to be. Sure, there may be some pale semblance of its former glory but it will be nothing compared to the one that had me.
Dr. Frank Enstine on February 4, 2013 at 12:27 PM
There is no meaning in life apart from God because nothing apart from God “matters”. Nothing you can do of your self “matters”. If all life disappeared from the earth tomorrow the universe would continue to revolve in its celestial sphere the same as it always has and the fact there was once man on earth wouldn’t matter one bit.
Whatever you do
Has already been done
And there is nothing new
Under the sun.
tommyboy on February 4, 2013 at 12:38 PM
I wish there were absolute proof that a god that we may be accountable to didn’t exist. Just imagine how much better it would be. We could go a raping, pillaging and murdering with no possibility of consequences. Sure we may be killed at some point but we wouldn’t know we had been killed so it wouldn’t matter. The point would be to just live for the moment and enjoy the moment. Just like all the other animals on Earth. For as much as people want to claim that they are moral without a god they just can’t prove it. The reason is that their entire world view has been molded by the religious belief of those who founded western civilization. The sad thing is that we are witnessing the fall of western civilization in favor of a godless one founded by people who are as moral-less as the rest of the animals on Earth. A view that allows them to “morally” exterminate hundreds of millions of their follow humans and for no other reason than to make themselves feel good about their “moral” view of the world. Well, one thing is for sure. The people that crave and welcome that world will be in a world of hurt when it comes about and they see what it is really all about.
Dr. Frank Enstine on February 4, 2013 at 12:42 PM
You don’t get to tell me what I am or am not politically speaking MelonCollie. I know what I am politically and I am what I said I am. That you can’t reconcile being both is your problem, not mine. One can be conservative on some things and libertarian on others… I am, and there are many others who SELF IDENTIFY as conservative libertarians. You don’t have to call me a liar because you disagree, do you?
SauerKraut537 on February 4, 2013 at 12:43 PM
I doubt that this is a viable movement, but it is getting close to what I think will challenge religion: the return of Stoicism, Epicureanism, and Cynicism. Stoicism is already in the process of becoming a vibrant mass movement. Epicureanism and Cynicism are bound to follow. Even for the deeply religious, this is a good thing, because bare atheism isn’t going to add interesting ideas to the conversation. These philosophies will.
thuja on February 4, 2013 at 12:44 PM
Atheists are funny. They try so hard.
John the Libertarian on February 4, 2013 at 12:54 PM
Then tell me how come atheists generally support abortion?
Old Country Boy on February 4, 2013 at 1:04 PM
Exactly.
Good answer. And, thank you. (As I tuck away that info for later perusal.)
I can see the argument (in the article) in one sense – knowing there is an end can make my life more precious. But, notice it only makes my life more precious. It gives me no particular reason to think other lives are also precious – at least not to anyone but themselves.
Knowing that each and every person is a creation of God makes them all precious – even the unwanted unborn ones.
GWB on February 4, 2013 at 1:14 PM
Atheist: This is the only life I get. Today may the last day I ever have. So I’ll live it to the fullest knowing it’s all I’ll ever have.
VS
Religious: My actions today will echo throughout eternity. So I’ll live life to the fullest knowing that my actions matter.
The latter seems more powerful to me than the former – though both can increase one’s appreciation for one’s time in life.
gwelf on February 4, 2013 at 1:22 PM
Not believing in God makes life
more preciousmeaningless.Pork-Chop on February 4, 2013 at 1:32 PM
SauerKraut537 on February 4, 2013 at 12:43 PM
Okay. You’re a prevaricator, then.
kingsjester on February 4, 2013 at 1:38 PM
Well said.
GWB on February 4, 2013 at 1:46 PM
Didn’t they used to roam the earth in the Maastrichtian stage of the Late Cretaceous Period?
Shy Guy on February 4, 2013 at 2:27 PM
An time I hear or read athiests trying to claim that life without belief is as good or better than life with the knowledge that I am actually part of something eternal, it brings this to mind:
Deteriorata
Go placidly amid the noise and waste,
And remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Avoid quiet and passive persons unless you are in need of sleep.
Rotate your tires.
Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself,
And heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys.
Know what to kiss and when.
Consider that two wrongs never make a right,
But that three lefts do.
Wherever possible put people on “HOLD”.
Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment,
And despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.
Remember the Pueblo.
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.
Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI.
Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
Especially with those persons closest to you;
That lemon on your left for instance.
Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls,
Would scarcely get your feet wet.
Fall not in love therefore; it will stick to your face.
Carefully surrender the things of youth: birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan,
And let not the sands of time get in your lunch.
For a good time, call 606-4311.
Take heart amid the deepening gloom that your dog
Is finally getting enough cheese;
And reflect that whatever fortunes may be your lot,
It could only be worse in Sioux City.
You are a fluke of the Universe.
You have no right to be here, and whether you can hear it or not,
The Universe is laughing behind your back.
Therefore make peace with your God whatever you conceive him to be,
Hairy Thunderer or Cosmic Muffin.
With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal,
The world continues to deteriorate.
Give up.
–From the National Lampoon Radio Dinner album.
Siddhartha Vicious on February 4, 2013 at 5:38 PM
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