The BSA and gays: A lesson from the Scouts’ own book
During hundreds of camping trips and meetings and service projects and weird and wonderful events such as the Klondike Derby (a cold-weather competition in which scouts drag makeshift sleds over frozen ground for hours), I learned how to adapt to changing circumstances on the fly while keeping the main goals in sight.
Now, of course, it’s time for the Boy Scouts themselves to learn a lesson about adaptability—one that I fear may be coming too late to save the group from its long decline in numbers and influence.
I still draw on what I learned in the Scouts, whose mission statement talks about preparing “young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes.” That creed has helped to make me a better father—or at least a less-bad one—to my two sons, whom I kept from joining the Boy Scouts because of the group’s position on gays.
It was a decision that I made with much sadness and not a little anger, but it was fully in keeping with the Scout Oath, which requires members to do their best to be “morally straight” at all times and to do what they think is right.
Blowback
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Nick Gillespie wouldn’t know morally straight if it jumped up and bit him in the nuts.
john1schn on February 3, 2013 at 10:35 AM
Our son pulled our granddaughters from Girl Scouts after realizing how strongly they stress turning to lessons from Planned Parenthood. Haven’t heard about grandson presently in BSA, yet.
Shame.
pambi on February 3, 2013 at 10:36 AM
Nonsense like this is what keeps “ethical and moral” folks from joining the so-called Reason crowd.
Nick needs to recognize that he has a problem with ethics and morals.
itsnotaboutme on February 3, 2013 at 10:37 AM
So, in other words, because of a petty political disagreement that doesn’t affect him personally in the slightest, he kept his sons from learning what he just said are valuable life lessons and wholesome experiences.
Speaking as an Eagle Scout myself, screw you, Mr. Gillespie. Apparently, it’s not just liberals who insist on making everything political.
KingGold on February 3, 2013 at 10:41 AM
I wouldn’t trust Nick Gillespie with my kids. I really wouldn’t.
thebrokenrattle on February 3, 2013 at 10:44 AM
Yes, not allowing gay teenagers in the Scouts is ethical and moral, while questioning the policy and exercising his right to not have his kids join the group shows Nick has a “problem with ethics and morals.”
BSA is a private group, I don’t care who they let in. I also am fine with people deciding to boycott the group based on how they operate.
What’s the problem here?
Timin203 on February 3, 2013 at 10:45 AM
If the gays want a scout-like organization, nothing is stopping them. But that’s not what this is about. It’s about 99% of society changing just so the the rest feel good about themselves.
nobar on February 3, 2013 at 10:46 AM
Correction: 96.6%. That would be the percentage of Americans who do not self-identify as gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender, at last measure.
KingGold on February 3, 2013 at 10:48 AM
Wow – the death of the Boy Scouts. It sad. I have a 7 year old. We will NOT be participating. Pushing Homosexuality on boys before they discover girls serves no other purpose than to destroy an institution built on morality. The fact that they caved shows NOT that they can adapt, but rather acquiesce to pressure from liberal busy bodies (Pun optional) who have made it clear that they do NOT have the BSA’s best interest in mind. Sad indeed.
famous amos on February 3, 2013 at 10:50 AM
I think if the scouts bend to this, they will lose more members than they have lost by NOT allowing gays. I have no problem with gays, but, sorry, I wouldn’t want my young son going on overnight trips with gay boys. There’s a reason why the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are two separate groups.
But, also, people shouldn’t fool themselves that this is just about letting gays in and that will be it. It will be about supporting a gay lifestyle. Young scouts will no doubt be forced to take sensitivity classes or whatever or be required to participate in gay pride activities (if not, they’ll be considered intolerant and probably asked to leave the troop).
I think they should leave it up to the individual troops to decide. And, if someone wants to form a troop that is gay friendly (or gay centric), let them.
sydneyjane on February 3, 2013 at 10:56 AM
The reason ol’ Nick is wrong here isn’t due to the scouts changing their policyl it’s because he chose to keep his kids out of an organization that does promote moral behavior, self-reliance and camaraderie. All because his agenda to promote sex among the 11-16 crowd is so fluking important. That’s why he’s wrong.
john1schn on February 3, 2013 at 10:58 AM
I was disappointed in this piece by Nick. He enumerates all the positives and benefits he reaped from scouting and then reveals that he kept his own sons from joining over a position taken by this private organization that sets its own standards for what membership should entail. I liken it to keeping a kid from playing Little League baseball because, hey, some major leaguers turned to PED’s and I don’t want my kid to become a junkie – so lets keep them from learning teamwork, fielding skills, how to judge a fly ball, etc.
I haven’t yet heard Dennis Prager speak up about this recent BSA news, but as he has said in the past over boycotts of BSA and organizations booting them out of their meeting places: name one thing the left has created that is analogous to a Boy Scouts of America. Name one thing they do to build up. They only want to tear down and destroy. I’d have to agree with nobar on February 3, 2013 at 10:46 AM above. Let them start their own “inclusive” scouting organization and see how far they get.
Captain Scarlet on February 3, 2013 at 10:59 AM
Source?
The hypocrisy is as thick as a brick already in the comments here…all those who hailed the prop 8 vote, and similar votes around the nation that struck down things like gay marriage, are the same one’s who decry the same kind of vote within the BSA to allow openly gay scouts and scoutmasters.
JetBoy on February 3, 2013 at 11:00 AM
It’s Nick’s selective admiration of ethics and morals.
He thinks they’re great, & then he opposes them.
itsnotaboutme on February 3, 2013 at 11:00 AM
…Of course he has a right to free speech. No one is trying to take that away.
itsnotaboutme on February 3, 2013 at 11:01 AM
“I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member” –
Groucho MarxNick GillespieCaptain Scarlet on February 3, 2013 at 11:08 AM
Of course, our free speech right is used to point out his stupidity.
john1schn on February 3, 2013 at 11:09 AM
Just start the Glitter Fairies and have separate but fabulous.
Flange on February 3, 2013 at 11:09 AM
Dunno, Rob Halford might disagree.
john1schn on February 3, 2013 at 11:12 AM
Had you grown up in the 60′s and been a intelligent and observant member of the Boy Scouts you would undoubtedly have been aware that the Boy Scouts were started by the Presbyterian Church.
Furthermore, you would no doubt likewise be equally aware that as a Christian founded organization whose moral and ethical code came right straight out of the Christian Scriptures that homosexuality is defined by Christian theology and the Boy Scout moral and ethical code as a immoral and deviant practice.
Therefore it logically follows that allowing an individual known to engage in a practice deemed by your organizations moral and ethical code to be immoral and deviant constitutes a moral and ethical dilemma.
SWalker on February 3, 2013 at 11:14 AM
Adapt? Really?
Let’s look at the scout Oath first.
Honor – Nope there’s no honor in doing the Expedient thing over the right thing.
Duty – It’s your duty to give in to outside pressure? I dont’ think so.
God AND Country – following the decline of the culture?
No, the object isn’t to be an influential political organization, it’s to be an organization that teaches about Honor and Duty about God and Morality – and as such it’s about being Right over being popular (a lesson RINOs never learned).
jaydee_007 on February 3, 2013 at 11:19 AM
It’s disgusting that the Boy Scouts ban gay teens from participating. Even if someone had been a scout for years, they’ll kick him out if he states he is gay. It’s idiotic bigotry, and shame on you all for making excuses for it.
Someone’s sexual orientation shouldn’t matter.
bluegill on February 3, 2013 at 11:19 AM
Of course, to a liberal, an Oath is NOTHING, mere words spoken to make the leaders of the group happy.
Universe forbid that anyone actually take those words, and their meaning, seriously.
Therefor, in an organization that has an Oath which, is taken by all members, that covers Morally Straight (that includes sexual orientation) YES Someone’s Sexual Orientation Does Matter.
They are not kicking him out for being gay, they are kicking him out for Violating his Oath!
jaydee_007 on February 3, 2013 at 11:26 AM
The Stupid is strong with this one…
SWalker on February 3, 2013 at 11:26 AM
How dare anyone have a different opinion than you right? I mean if YOU want top have sex with a chicken we are wrong to criticize you. You are every bit as bigoted in your beliefs and intolerant as anyone. Being gay is a serious mental problem, and people like you prevent those afflicted from getting help. Being gay cannot possibly be genetic, so clearly it is mental. But you people keep pushing it like it’s wonderful as opposed to it being a deviancy. Just because something happens naturally doesn’t make it right. People are born with all sorts of conditions that get corrected with treatment.
Flange on February 3, 2013 at 11:27 AM
Stop hiding behind and using your profession of faith as an excuse to be a bigot against people of different sexual orientations. You all sound like a bunch of hateful, low class, old fogeys.
Some of you people give conservatives a bad name. ugh, it’s embarrassing.
Nick Gillepsie is right here. Sorry you’re all mad he’s not down with the bigotry.
bluegill on February 3, 2013 at 11:28 AM
The problem with Leftists is they Create nothing of their own.
If you wanted an outdoor group that admitted gays, then start your own Gay Scouts.
The fact that no one will join (or, at least not enough to make it worthwhile) is why leftists must must constantly push to take what someone else has created, and pervert it to their own world view.
jaydee_007 on February 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM
Love your use of the term “reason”. I mean, Gillespie’s “Reason” magazine should be so sensible. And it’s the same reason there’s value in same-sex schools, why men and women living in close quarters is a problem in the military, and why gays and lesbians in the military are problematic since then there’s no way to segregate people who are sexually attracted to each other.
Is it just all too simple for people to understand? I guess we’re just “stupid” to see it this way.
Paul-Cincy on February 3, 2013 at 11:30 AM
As if a Marxist like you would know enough about being a Conservative to know what gives conservatives a bad name.
SWalker on February 3, 2013 at 11:30 AM
If it’s such a big deal to him, why doesn’t Nick Gillespie start a new organization? He could call it the LGBTQSA.
steebo77 on February 3, 2013 at 11:30 AM
I saw a story about a kid who was kicked out for being gay. Was on Ellen. Google it, people. He was about to get his Eagle badges or whatever. The whole thing is sickening. How can you people defend a repugnant ban like that.
bluegill on February 3, 2013 at 11:30 AM
I am so sick of the gay agenda. Frankly I have no interest in having gays (who are attracted to males) involved with males in such an organization, any more that I want men (who are attracted to females) involved in Girl Scouts. It just seems prudent to me. It goes for the same for lesbians too. The world has gone mad, I tell you.
wsucoug on February 3, 2013 at 11:32 AM
I’m not bigoted.
I see Gays as immoral. (they committ adultry)
I also see them as Proud of their imorality. (they put it on display)
The Boy Scouts were created to promote Christian Values – it is you who are bigoted against those values and trying to force your own personal morality upon them, rather than creating your own group to promote your own values.
You (mam or) sir, blugil, are the only bigoted one here.
You are the one saying Live and force to live by my standards, not the Boy Scouts.
If you join the Boy Scouts, you Join them for what they offer you, if you reject what they offer, it is not your place to force them to let you in and change what they offer – That is Bigoted!
jaydee_007 on February 3, 2013 at 11:33 AM
It has to do with something that you are utterly and completely incapable of understanding, it’s called moral and ethical standards.
SWalker on February 3, 2013 at 11:34 AM
You will never get that imbecile bluegill to understand that. It’s the curse of being a Marxist useless idiot that clings to her like the spray of a skunk.
SWalker on February 3, 2013 at 11:37 AM
AGAIN! (I’ll type slow so you can keep up with me)
He was NOT kicked out for being gay.
He was kicked out for violating his oath and the Scout Law.
Scout Oath
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.
Scout Law
A Scout is:
Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful,
Friendly, Courteous, Kind,
Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty,
Brave, Clean, Reverent
jaydee_007 on February 3, 2013 at 11:37 AM
So, Blugil, I’m guessing that you would find it morally repugnant and Bigoted if the NAACP were to refuse membership to a Grand Wizard of the Ku Kux Klan?
After all, that is the standard you are setting.
jaydee_007 on February 3, 2013 at 11:40 AM
This will be the end of the line for another old-line American institution.
Everything will burn.
trigon on February 3, 2013 at 11:40 AM
Male gay sex is unhealthy and unnatural. You can ignore that truth if you want, but don’t think you can force other people to ignore it.
It astounds me that the pro-gay group never considers they might be wrong, and the consequences of them being wrong. Instead, they don’t hesitate in smearing those who disagree with them.
Paul-Cincy on February 3, 2013 at 11:43 AM
Sorry. The analogy doesn’t quite fit. In one case, you’re talking about our country’s concept of federalism. In the other case, you’re talking about a PRIVATE organization with many chapters.
At an extraordinarily superficial glance, I can see how you could fool yourself into such an analogy. But if you think about it just a little more deeply, you’d see the analogy just doesn’t fit.
BuckeyeSam on February 3, 2013 at 11:50 AM
Jetboy is a Gay Catholic… Moral contradictions don’t bother him.
SWalker on February 3, 2013 at 11:52 AM
Hahahahaha… the irony contained in this one sentence is unbelievable.
Hey, the Scouts taught me to be a good man and therefore to make my own political statement, I will deny my own children the opportunity to learn how to be a good man from the Scouts.
What in the hell????
Did this jackass even read what he wrote?
How selfish can you be to begrudge your children something you deem a positive and uplifting experience so you can make a political statement on your own beliefs?
ButterflyDragon on February 3, 2013 at 11:54 AM
Then why state it? Whats the motivation?
Mimzey on February 3, 2013 at 11:54 AM
New survey: 3.4% of U.S. adults are LGBT
Numbers don’t lie. Activists and the media do.
KingGold on February 3, 2013 at 11:55 AM
He doesn’t need to: it already exists.
http://navigatorsusa.org/
I read about this group when my local paper was reporting about (read “bashing”) a BSA flap about six months ago. Plenty of quotes from “enlightened” parents and seven-year-olds about belonging to an organization that doesn’t exclude anyone.
BuckeyeSam on February 3, 2013 at 11:58 AM
It’s a private organization that can be bigoted and closed minded all they want. It’s their right. You also have the right to choose not to participate or fraternize with them. And they also have the same right and opportunity to say you’re a bigot and you’re closed minded if you decry those that don’t agree with your point of view.
Start the Gay Scouts of America Club and have fun. Leave other people alone.
ButterflyDragon on February 3, 2013 at 12:00 PM
It’s funnier than that when you think about it. For 100 years Boy Scouts have excluded Homosexuals because Christian theology considers homosexuality immoral. Gillespie claims that Boy Scouts taught him to be a Moral and ethical individual, but then he turns around and says his sons cannot join the Boy Scouts because he disagrees with the Boy Scouts moral and ethical code.
SWalker on February 3, 2013 at 12:01 PM
For the record, the Catholic Church is fine with gay people being gay. Someone can be a practicing gay Catholic – provided that the “Catholic” part is the only thing being practiced.
From the Catechism:
KingGold on February 3, 2013 at 12:03 PM
Well, I think you folks have done it. In every election since 2000, I have voted Republican because I thought they had a better idea for what this country should be. Even if I had to hold my nose sometimes, I always agreed more with the Republicans than the Democrats.
But now? I’m done. If this thread represents even 2% of the Republican party, I hope the party burns to the ground.
Almost every comment in this thread makes me sick. For people that complain about having “agendas” pushed down your throats, you’re doing the exact same thing. This isn’t a political battle. It’s not about pushing the “gay agenda”. It’s about letting people that believe in what the Boy Scouts teach be a part of that group.
Instead of saying “Hey, if they want to learn responsibility and some good life lessons then good for them!”, you’re saying “Go drink from your own water fountain.”
What a bunch of hypocrites.
For those of you preaching from the Bible, stop bastardizing it. Every single one of you has missed the message of Jesus. Not once did he say “Hate your neighbor.”
kvader on February 3, 2013 at 12:04 PM
Will you stand with us and help stop the ban on prostitutes, crack dealers and polygamists? We will teach the Boy scouts that they must have no standards or rules whatsoever!
reddevil on February 3, 2013 at 12:08 PM
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