Raise the debt ceiling and then fight on spending
The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with Pete. Republicans need to identify the terrain that will maximize both their leverage and their ability to win the public debate against the president. If you haven’t noticed Obama’s ability to adroitly demonize his opponents to great political effect, you haven’t been paying attention. With the purported threat of catastrophic “default” — with all its implications for our already-imperiled credit rating — hanging over the debt limit debate, Obama will relentlessly accuse the GOP of threatening to crash the economy. The press will largely play along with this narrative; during yesterday’s White House press conference, many of the questions were already premised on the assumption that Republicans are the reckless actors in the dispute. Few reporters will mention Obama’s grandstanding vote against raising the debt ceiling seven years (and more than $8 trillion) ago. Fewer still will explain what does, and does not, constitute an actual credit default. Instead, Republicans will be seen as putting the full faith and credit of the United States government in graver trouble, with potentially far-reaching consequences. I also believe they’d endure all that calumny before eventually buckling — a lose-lose, as framed by Wehner. Here’s an alternative plan, inspired by the Wehner calculus…
Blowback
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I’d like it, if we didn’t have inept leadership. I have no faith that the impotent Boehner could pull this off.
Ca97 on January 15, 2013 at 4:32 PM
“This isn’t the hill to die on. Swallow this crap sandwich. Next time we’ll take a stand. Promise!”
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Wethal on January 15, 2013 at 4:34 PM
thats my problem too
the idea itself isnt bad, but we cant trust the Tools to implement with any discipline.
blatantblue on January 15, 2013 at 4:35 PM
Yeah yeah we know, now isn’t the time. Down the road everything will be different. Obama won’t be a big meany the next time. We’ll have more leverage. Yada yada.
Why won’t pundits like Guy just come out and say it – the GOP is too craven to do anything at anytime to make a stand on this issue (or any issue of importance). Why pretend that “next time” will be any different?
gwelf on January 15, 2013 at 4:36 PM
Yeah Guy I have never seen this skit before.
*spoiler*
Obama and the media yank the football, the GOP moderates fall on their butt.
harlekwin15 on January 15, 2013 at 4:39 PM
Guy’s proposal has several fatal flaws:
(1) It requires the GOP to message things to convince the public to spending cuts and entitliement reform.
(2) It boils down to give the Democrats nearly everything they want for nothing in return to gain some sort of magical unicorn-powered leverage for the CR debate.
It’s delusional that the Democrats are going to be good chaps about all this. Apparently Guy thinks that the GOP rolling over repeadedly isn’t going to embolden Democrats or convince Democrats that the Republicans are wet noodles and will cave during the CR debate but somehow will take into consideration all the GOP caving and decide it’s their turn to cave.
gwelf on January 15, 2013 at 4:41 PM
Remove the one thing that constrains spending and then argue about spending cuz we’ll get ‘em next time just like we said last time, makes sense, beyond tired of all the idiotic maneuvering and game playing, just done with it.
clearbluesky on January 15, 2013 at 4:42 PM
Either Guy Benson is joking or else he has become a joke.
FloatingRock on January 15, 2013 at 4:42 PM
Shut the government down…
Guy needs to piss in a cup even before Lance Armstrong…
phreshone on January 15, 2013 at 4:44 PM
Change a few words and dates and names and Guy’s argument is the template that was generally used for arguing to cave in the fiscal cliff debate to really fight the battle over the debt limit increase.
With popular and nonsensical phrases like:
* X will be off the table now that we’ve caved!
* Democrats will be forced to…!
* The GOP can then really point out how insane the Democrats are!
gwelf on January 15, 2013 at 4:44 PM
Does anyone else remember “Well, seatbelt laws will only be enforced as secondary tickets. You won’t get pulled over for not having a seatbelt on.”?
Just curious.
Flange on January 15, 2013 at 4:53 PM
phreshone, I don’t oppose forcing a partial shutdown, as my piece explains.
Guy Benson on January 15, 2013 at 4:57 PM
You are so right!
Frankly, if it’s true that Obama is going to violate the 2nd amendment, as well as others tomorrow, and become a dictator, the sole mission of the GOP at that point should be to impeach him and deprive him of funds. The most effective way we have to deprive him of funds is not to raise the debt ceiling at all, period, until he resigns or is thrown out of office.
FloatingRock on January 15, 2013 at 5:01 PM
This is the hill to die on. After agreeing to tax hikes in the last deal, the GOP is already teetering on the brink of irrelevancy.
theperfecteconomist on January 15, 2013 at 5:01 PM
Hi, Guy. You’re one of the reasons I stopped reading TownHall during the primaries.
FloatingRock on January 15, 2013 at 5:02 PM
…and haven’t been back since.
FloatingRock on January 15, 2013 at 5:02 PM
No!
The lies, diversions, obfuscations, and deceptions continue unabated.
There is no relationship between the debt limit and paying our bills. The only reason to raise the debt limit is to borrow more money to support even more spending. The arguments coming from DC don’t even make sense.
It would be like me going to my bank and telling them that without increasing my line of credit I couldn’t pay the mortgage, buy food, buy gas, pay utilities, etc. they would laugh and tell me to lower my spending to match my salary.
There is no need to make any kind of deal with Obama about raising the debt limit. If the GOP wants to cut spending the best way to do so is to refuse to raise the debt ceiling. Obama woud have no choice but to spend not a dime more than the Treasury receives in taxes each month. So, technically no deal has to be made whatsoever. It’s the GOP that holds all the cards here if only they knew how to play them.
And here the 14th Amendment actually applies. Interest on the debt must be paid first.
Charlemagne on January 15, 2013 at 5:04 PM
Over at NRO Michael Tanner has a good column on the debt ceiling issue.
This key graf is significant because it shows O’s and the Dems’ long-range political plans: postpone the problem until the 2014 election and then we have another crisis.
onlineanalyst on January 15, 2013 at 5:08 PM
By definition, hitting the debt limit only creates a partial shut down. This is the ONLY way left to fight on spending. Boehner screwed up by re-drawing the line in the sand last-time, and we ended up with the fiscal cliff fiasco.
The trillion dollar ‘jump’ in federal spending between FY07 and FY09 must be eliminated. Refuse to raise the debt, all ‘non-essential’ government services get shut down, people will breath a sigh of relief when the social security checks still go out, and the pressure turns against the Democrats. The only real risk is the military, which somehow (GOP inattention) isn’t a ‘critical service’.
phreshone on January 15, 2013 at 5:10 PM
Two weeks ago, it was fold on spending and fight on the debt ceiling.
At some point, I stop caring. Libs don’t understand their history and GOP elected officials have gone French. Guns, ammo, water and food. Money and order will be meaningless until the GOP starts using four-letter words and insults and doesn’t worry about politics any more. You’re dealing with a Chicago thug in a suit. Maybe if we start sounding like him in his harangues of a charismatic demagogue – and out do him with vulgar sound bites – we can wake up the unwashed masses as to where we are headed. PBHO and the left lie. But at least 51% of us can’t discern it or agree with the lies.
321mdl on January 15, 2013 at 5:10 PM
If the pathetic, useless GOP weren’t so unpopular with their own base it wouldn’t matter what Obama and the Democrats think.
FloatingRock on January 15, 2013 at 5:15 PM
Math is hard…
Let’s quit before we start and hope for the best…
Yay for the status quo…
What Notre Dame said before playing Alabama…
Gohawgs on January 15, 2013 at 5:16 PM
Guy, this is the ONLY method left to fight on spending. As Harry Reid has demonstrated, the Federal Government does not require a budget process for several years as long as he is control. Spending allowance increases automatically, and after the 40% jump in budget size created by the ‘not so one time’ stimulus, the dems probably could go another 8+ years without a budget. The card gets played now, or the gig is up. If Speaker Boehner does not have his people ready for this, I would suggest ritual seppuku on the Capitol steps
phreshone on January 15, 2013 at 5:17 PM
+1, and make sure there are plenty of hi-definition movie cameras around so that we can all enjoy it for years to come. High speed/slow motion cameras would be appreciated as well.
FloatingRock on January 15, 2013 at 5:22 PM
Reid has been successfull at not following the law due in part to The Spelunker of the House passing Continuing Resolution after Continuing Resolution…
Gohawgs on January 15, 2013 at 5:23 PM
I am sympathetic to the these arguments of the GOP fighting where the terrain is more favorable to the GOP and I do agree that the upcoming Continuing Resolution Hill is probably better.
I’d also note I’d be much more likely to go along with it if the pressure to do so from the quarters recommending it, if they didn’t give me the impression that their purpose was that they had a better vantage point from which to watch and criticize, without ever so much as have to commit to some specific proposals or do anything besides put on their credentialed blog observer hats, sit under their parasols, eat their packed lunch, and type blog posts saying the GOP is still doing it wrong.
And there is no need to sound a full retreat just because the debt ceiling vote is not the best ground. Obama is as opportunistic as they come with regard to fomenting crises no one here has gamed out the opportunity for Obama to foment one at the site of our new terrain so we might as well move to this new terrain by fighting a rearguard action while doing so.
Obama has already thrown a monkey wrench into the process of budgeting for the next fiscal year by vowing not to send his budget to Congress on time. His budget is what is needed to commence normal budgeting order by our federal government and he should be made to pay politically for it.
As I commented earlier, Boehner should announce that the House GOP will submit a bill to raise the debt ceiling covering the remainder of the Continuing Resolution in effect once the President submits his budget as required by law and the House determines it is complete as defined by law. Until that time the House will not consider any other bills except a daily bill to raise the debt ceiling sufficiently to cover government operations for the following day.
Dusty on January 15, 2013 at 5:38 PM
So give up your leverage for reducing spending, and THEN ask from reduced spending? That sounds Machiavellian, and by “Macchiavellian,” I mean “stupid as hell.”
Also, we need to keep Obama demonizing Republicans. If Republicans can ensure that the one thing people remember him for is his negativity, painting generic Democrat in 2016 as “four more years of the same negative campaigning” will go a long way in the general election.
mintycrys on January 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM
Does anyone here doubt the House GOP will ultimately raise the debt ceiling AND pass a continuing resolution to keep the gov’t going with little, if anything, in return?
We might as well assume Boehner and McConnell will give Obama everything he wants. That way my blood pressure won’t go up as much when the inevitable happens.
I refuse to get worked up with false hopes the GOP might actually grow a backbone and achieve something.
DRayRaven on January 15, 2013 at 5:58 PM
Trick question:
How many 800 billion dollar stimulus appropriations are there?
ANSWER: There was the first one, and one in every CR since then. We are giving an 800 billion dollar credit card to Jugears every CR to do anything he wants.
Boehner knows this, Reid knows this, and Jugears knows this.
This is why Reid doesn’t do a budget. He does want the American public to know what they’re doing.
Now the hot air peeps know. Do something with the knowledge.
platypus on January 15, 2013 at 6:02 PM
You’re right about that but you’re wrong not to get worked up about it when they do it. If people don’t wake up, or worse, if people who have woken up go back to sleep, America is done for.
FloatingRock on January 15, 2013 at 6:12 PM
Didn’t we just get told “raise the taxes and fight on the debt ceiling” last time? It’s like listening to Cubs fans. “Wait til next year!”
CycloneCDB on January 15, 2013 at 6:29 PM