The end of spanking
But Holden and a growing number of children’s advocates still believe the time is right for a serious effort to end corporal punishment. For some in the burgeoning stop-hitting movement, the goal is nothing less than a total legal ban on spanking in all settings, as has been passed by 33 nations in Europe, Latin America and Africa (soon to be 34 when Brazil becomes the largest country to outlaw spanking in final action expected this year).
So far in this country, even limited anti-spanking laws have gone nowhere. A 2008 proposal to make it illegal to spank a child younger than 3 was greeted with howls of nanny-state overreach in the California Assembly before being withdrawn. In 2011, a bill targeting some of the more extreme physical discipline measures that have been considered “reasonable corporal punishment” — hitting with dangerous objects, punching with closed fists, shaking toddlers younger than 3 — was hooted down in the Maryland Senate.
“I had legislators telling me that they had not been spared the rod when they were young and look at them now,” said State Sen. Jamie B. Raskin (D-Montgomery), the bill’s chief sponsor. “It’s really entrenched in the culture. I do think we need a social movement against violence in the home.”
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I do think we need to understand how teaching our boys liberal pap turns them into beta-males.
Paul-Cincy on January 5, 2013 at 9:24 PM
After he said that, she went home to enjoy an afternoon of watching football with her kids, followed by a Die Hard rerun.
itsnotaboutme on January 5, 2013 at 9:26 PM
Ms. Von Schnapp the Dominatrix has a sad…
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 5, 2013 at 9:26 PM
Dear Nanny staters: Come out and say parenting should be illegal. Stop the slippery slope and get to the F$%*ING point. I’m tired of the indirect attacks on people, just say what you mean.
nobar on January 5, 2013 at 9:26 PM
Mrs. ziffel won’t like that.
arnold ziffel on January 5, 2013 at 9:28 PM
And Betty Page cries…
Warner Todd Huston on January 5, 2013 at 9:28 PM
Bawney Fwank hawdest hit.
Owwww! Aw, you sawages!
viking01 on January 5, 2013 at 9:28 PM
Otherwise known as applying the hand of discipline to the seat of the problem.
Wethal on January 5, 2013 at 9:29 PM
If you can’t tell the difference between corporal punishment and “violence,” then you aren’t fit to dictate to anyone else.
Amazingly, people who were spanked as children tend to think spanking is a good idea. To the liberal, this proves that violence begets violence. They can’t accept that maybe those who were spanked appreciate how well it works.
tom on January 5, 2013 at 9:29 PM
Send the kid to their room with a spliff for a time-out.
It worked for the president.
vityas on January 5, 2013 at 9:31 PM
Spanking works and I suspect most of the studies they talk about are like Global Warming studies…they find what they want to find.
In the past generation, the population of parents who think spanking is “necessary” has dropped from 94 percent to about 70 percent. Despite that change in attitudes, research by University of New Hampshire sociologist Murray Straus has shown, the population of parents who still spank their toddlers is more than 90 percent. This is the striking truth about spanking today: It hasn’t stopped, it’s just gone into hiding.
http://www.boston.com/community/moms/articles/2012/06/17/what_if_spanking_works/?page=full
I wonder how many of those studies included children who were in fact spanked?
A few years ago, a Southern Methodist University psychology professor named George Holden installed audio recorders in 33 homes in the Dallas area. His plan was only to measure how often the participants yelled at their kids, Holden says, “but we inadvertently captured more than we expected.” In half the homes, the recorders caught the sounds of parents slapping and spanking. What his research shows, Holden says, is that “parents may be behaving at odds with what they say, and certainly at odds with what they think good parents would do.”
sharrukin on January 5, 2013 at 9:36 PM
I’m willing to bet the actual evidence shows we’d be better off with mandatory spanking.
Knott Buyinit on January 5, 2013 at 9:36 PM
Now, isn’t that more effective? If not, we can re-term it rape …
Pathetic morons with way to much time on their sorry molesting hands and minds.
ShainS on January 5, 2013 at 9:37 PM
I finally stopped spanking because it just wasn’t working. Went with the belt.
Ted Torgerson on January 5, 2013 at 9:38 PM
Associating improper behaviors with painful/uncomfortable stimuli is now “violent” and “reasonable”?
It’s almost like we don’t want the kiddies to learn how to control their impulses. Or we think that they’re born fully rational adults.
But if we just take away teh eeevil gunzors, everything will be okay…
Atlas on January 5, 2013 at 9:39 PM
Not in my house.
jawkneemusic on January 5, 2013 at 9:41 PM
Some kids need a spanking.
Others do not.
It just depends upon the child.
If the kids that actually do need spankings never get them, they grow up into adults who get the hell beat out of them by someone they meet who won’t put up with their $hit.
So wouldn’t we like to avoid those sorts of things?
Let parents parent their own children.
Abuse happens & always has.
Taking away parents’ Constitutional rights under the guise of protecting children from harm is still tyranny.
Badger40 on January 5, 2013 at 9:41 PM
Interestingly enough, I have heard that is illegal in some states, like evidently, where I live in ND.
Badger40 on January 5, 2013 at 9:42 PM
I think pre-emptive spanking should be employed. Keep ‘em on their toes, and prevent them from even thinking about getting in trouble!
Shepherd Lover on January 5, 2013 at 9:43 PM
Science actually shows, in animals, that punishment is effective for ending behaviors. This kind of hard science approach would be somewhat inappropriate when done on people (who don’t like it when you apply electric shocks. Normally.) but there’s every reason to think it applies to us as well.
Punishment isn’t always the most effective approach but it is experimentally proven to be effective in many ways. Psychological “Studies” are normally just confirmation bias fueled wastes of money filled with pseudo scientific terms and unsupported conclusions. It’s important to also note that most of the major schools of psychology are explicitly non-scientific in their approaches.
Kronos on January 5, 2013 at 9:51 PM
I can remember all the times I was spanked. Not very many but they made an impact.
Spanking works period.
gophergirl on January 5, 2013 at 9:51 PM
… and not a single mention of waterboarding.
/S <— That's a sarcasm tag just in case any of sleazy Eric Holder's henchmen are monitoring.
viking01 on January 5, 2013 at 9:52 PM
Well said. I learned this when studying Kinsey’s methods.
Kataklysmic on January 5, 2013 at 9:56 PM
Sure it’s illegal, but the kids don’t know that.
[I'd never actually use the belt, but just saying I'm going to get the belt will break up their fights and let me get back to the ballgame on TV.]
Ted Torgerson on January 5, 2013 at 9:57 PM
My parents blanched at the thought of spanking me; yet now, 50 or 60 years later, my therapist declares that I was deprived of sufficient “touch” as a child, ostensibly contributing to a lifetime of chronic anxiety and depression. I’m not saying that parents who spank are more likely to fondle, or vice versa, but this subject is clearly too complicated for politicians. There are already laws against child abuse and neglect. Anyway how do you enforce an anti-spanking law without either turning family members into informers or risking an omerta?
Seth Halpern on January 5, 2013 at 9:58 PM
We need to send the kids a strongly worded letter instead.
maynila on January 5, 2013 at 10:06 PM
Why do they always equate “hitting” with “spanking”?
maynila on January 5, 2013 at 10:08 PM
Just talking about this with a friend tonight.
When training horses, most horses respond to ‘horse whisperer’ training.
But there are some that do not. And these are horses that have never been wronged or ill treated in any way.
Take for instance the horse that would flip over backwards on its rider.
IT took rigging up some ropes in a round pen & spooking the horse for it to flip with only a saddle on its back. The ropes caused the horse to fall down in such a way that it hurt & scared the living hell out of it.
This horse became a useful & quiet & obedient animal for the rest of its life.
Another that did this without the owner doing the same thing as I described above got taken to the sale barn (when you could still sell kill horses) & he got his head cut off.
Bcs if not, he’d have killed somebody.
I don’t recommend such things, but sometimes it’s all one has left to try.
Badger40 on January 5, 2013 at 10:09 PM
Start by getting rid of abortion and I might imagine that you really have kids best interest in mind rather than some nefarious progressive “unintended consequence”.
astonerii on January 5, 2013 at 10:09 PM
i support spanking if the kid really deserves it, but i also support non-violent punishments. it just depends on the situation and the kid.
but no matter how you punish your kid, i think the most important thing is this: make sure you explain to them WHY what they did was wrong. the “why” is key.
Sachiko on January 5, 2013 at 10:09 PM
LOL! I figured.
My husband was never spanked or hit by his father.
But he was always scared to death if he screwed up that it might happen.
Fear is a powerful motivator to behave yourself.
Badger40 on January 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM
Because its a political agenda driven and NOT science. Global Warming ‘deniers’ is another example.
sharrukin on January 5, 2013 at 10:11 PM
I do not see it as a deserved punishment. I see it as doing what is needed to send the message required to prevent future occurrences of the same or similar activities.
Even at the young age of 1 year corporeal adjustments were useful. You cannot electrocute someone to demonstrate why they should not play with wires, or scald them with the oven or boiling water so they understand the danger. Slaps on the hand which are painful but far from damaging affect the same end result. I touch the wire and it hurts, I will not touch the wire. I touch the oven or push mommie around the oven while she is cooking and it hurts, so I will not touch the oven or mommie when she is at the oven. It is not like you can instruct a child who does not have a grasp of the language let alone the world the danger posed to them.
astonerii on January 5, 2013 at 10:18 PM
Not with my dog. That thing will never learn to shut up when we have guests!
astonerii on January 5, 2013 at 10:21 PM
Tone of voice can do wonders, but you have it right. My niece tried the no spanking thing with her child, and they got upset that she wouldn’t listen to her parents, but would to me. They finally gave it up and started bum pats which is all it took. Dr Spock was a fool.
sharrukin on January 5, 2013 at 10:24 PM
Years ago, Daughter came down with a bad case of “Teen Queen Sassy Mouth”. Husband snatched her arm, which shocked her because he was the fun parent.
Husband let go; Daughter burst into tears and screamed, “I’m calling the police on youuuuuu!”
As she ran up the stairs, I called after her, “Tell them to bring chalk so they can draw your outline!”
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 5, 2013 at 10:24 PM
Trust me, I have a tone of voice that stops my baby in her tracks when I choose to use it, but it does not have the staying effect of the stinging hand. I tried it first, I really did. But at some point you have to make a final stand or wait for the time you were not vigilant enough to protect your child.
astonerii on January 5, 2013 at 10:28 PM
I agree. That wasn’t my meaning. The tone of voice works only as long as you are willing to back it up. If they know you ARE willing to back it up, it allows you to avoid having to do so most of the time. Kids test boundaries and one of the most important things in their lives is to know that those boundaries exist. If nothing else, it tells them that someone actually cares what they do.
sharrukin on January 5, 2013 at 10:31 PM
Yeah, lets start with ending abortion.
If only a spanking was the worse that could ever happen to a child.
JellyToast on January 5, 2013 at 10:36 PM
Ah,
astonerii on January 5, 2013 at 10:37 PM
My son was a good kid; a little hyper, but good.
When he was 12, seems like he decided to test me.
He didn’t like something I said, so he called me a jerk.
I got up, got in his space, & asked him what he said.
He said, “Jerk.”
I shoved him in the chest & sent him sprawling onto the carpet. It did not hurt him one bit. Except for his ego.
For the next 5+ years since then (he’s now almost 18), he has never yelled at us, talked back, rebelled, or even rolled his eyes at us.
BTW, yes, we did spank him occasionally in his younger years.
itsnotaboutme on January 5, 2013 at 10:51 PM
I wonder how State Sen. Jamie B. Raskin (D-Montgomery) feels about abortion. Because to my mind, there’s no greater violence done to a child than to murder him.
Notice that it’s the pro-aborts who always think spanking = violence.
INC on January 5, 2013 at 11:19 PM
Whatever the behavioral problem, you should be able to contain it without spanking, right? So spanking becomes a behavioral problem that we can’t contain it without jailing?
When somebody tells me that they can’t get away with hitting adults and so shouldn’t get away with “hitting kids”, I send them to their rooms until they think better.
Or suppose that it’s not a case of jailing and only fining. Well, I don’t know when I’ve ever gotten away with forcing people to forfeit their property to change their behavior as well.
Axeman on January 5, 2013 at 11:19 PM
So spanking makes you think of Barney Frank and start cooing.
Point noted, Viking.
Capitalist Hog on January 5, 2013 at 11:49 PM
End of spanking – start of horsewhipping.
Congresscritters, that is.
platypus on January 6, 2013 at 12:04 AM
People like Mr. Holden need to smacked.
Upside the head.
A slap on the fanny to a kid about to lose a limb by fatal inexperience is the most effective mnemonic tool ever discovered.
Children are wild animals ~along with being little angels.
Sometimes the reckless mini-beast needs a whack on its micro-butt.
People who cannot admit this are fantasists.
profitsbeard on January 6, 2013 at 1:33 AM
Whoah…! That’s quite a statement right there. Complaints of nanny-state overreach….in California?!?!
anuts on January 6, 2013 at 2:43 AM
Spoiled children grow into spoiled adults – the perfect constituency for the democrat party.
Rebar on January 6, 2013 at 2:59 AM
When they act stupidly.
davidk on January 6, 2013 at 6:31 AM
But don’t spank: http://www.nola.com/crime/baton-rouge/index.ssf/2013/01/east_baton_rouge_sheriffs_offi.html
davidk on January 6, 2013 at 7:05 AM
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