Why women don’t like powerful women
American author and journalism professor Katie Roiphe, who wrote an essay entitled Elect Sister Frigidaire about the strange antipathy so many women feel for Hillary Clinton, suggests that we may like to imagine strong women but that we don’t actually like them. As much as women complain about the differences in salaries, support quotas, pay lip service to breaking the glass ceiling – when a woman actually makes it big, for many the reaction is not joy – far from it in fact – many women are downright miffed.
Instead of being inspired and motivated by the success of other women, it seems to be perceived as a direct attack on their own life and to provoke comments that cut the successful woman down to size.
The phenomenon is that much stronger if the standout woman is not only successful in her career, but is also a mother – and God forbid attractive as well! Any mother working full time who makes an effort with a group of full-time moms – maybe even brings a cake she baked – knows the feeling, and how hard it is to smile through the dire looks all the moms are exchanging about her…
Men and women behave very differently when it comes to recognizing status and hierarchy. Gender researchers say that men have no problem with pecking orders, whether it’s on the soccer field on in the boardroom. They recognize the top dog, who occupies second and third place, without envy (mostly) and everything about their seating and speaking order at meetings, body language, status symbols, bear witness to this. That doesn’t mean of course that they won’t compete for better positions. And they usually do this by emulating the top man and copying his strategies. And when they make it to the top, they see no reason to play that down.
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yep. thats exactly why the few detest Sarah.
renalin on January 3, 2013 at 8:33 PM
I was a Command Master Chief on an integrated (male / female) Aegis Cruiser.
These observations mesh perfectly with what I saw there. No slam on the women – but they are vastly different from men.
HondaV65 on January 3, 2013 at 8:33 PM
Why does this sound strangely familiar?
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 8:36 PM
Palin, Sarah H., mother of five, Governor of Alaska.
Fallon on January 3, 2013 at 8:40 PM
Um, because they instinctively know that on average a woman is a much less beneficial leader? That deep down inside they really do trust a man to do the job better?
By the way, I agree with what Sharrukin said. That whole average thing, does not mean there are not exceptional women, I have worked under several…
astonerii on January 3, 2013 at 8:42 PM
Hey, that’s right and there was this rabid reaction to her as well, as I recall.
it seems to be perceived as a direct attack on their own life and to provoke comments that cut the successful woman down to size.
Yeah, there’s a shock.
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 8:43 PM
I have had a few female bosses and will pass on any future repeats. Too much drama, infighting, and personalization. Like you say, there are some, but there are too many of the wrong type as well.
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 8:46 PM
As a woman, I am perfectly fine with SOME women. THe author mentions Hilary. I don’t agree with Hilary’s politics. I also resent the fact that she is supposed to be a “model” of a powerful women yet she rose to fame by not only riding the coattails of her husband, but sticking with said husband for power when he cheated on her..
melle1228 on January 3, 2013 at 8:50 PM
Uh, no.
It has more to do, speaking to evolutionary terms, with competition for a mate. The lesser women don’t like a woman who stands out–this can be career success as discussed in the article, or beauty, or some special talent, or any other reason. If a woman is getting more attention paid to her for possessing some talent or advantage in society, the beta females will try to tear it down.
The funny thing is, men often do this as well, though their methods tend to be different. No one mentions this for some reason, because apparently men are incapable of being catty.
Just think of a pack of chimps (less hairy, slightly better smelling, but you get the idea) Everyone’s always vying to be the top chimp, male or female, and this is the rationale for most awful human behavior you will see.
/Is female
//Experiences this behavior from women somewhat regularly
///Still single
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 8:52 PM
Welcome to Palin’s world…
idesign on January 3, 2013 at 8:53 PM
Pretty much. Nobody likes the alpha female.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 8:55 PM
Heh. If I hated powerful women, I could never go home for family functions! But Amazon CEO Marissa Mayer going back to work 2 weeks after giving birth was kinda irksome. And no, not hating because she’s very attractive (she is!), like the mystifyingly dumb article says. Even the Army gives new moms 6 weeks to bond before we and our leaky boobs had to schlep back to work. If little Macallister Bogue-Mayer could talk, he’d say–wait, Macallister???
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 3, 2013 at 8:56 PM
They don’t mention it because it rarely happens, except with very insecure men.
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 8:57 PM
Interesting. Must be the lower evolved forms.
astonerii on January 3, 2013 at 8:59 PM
This explains part of the hatred towards not only S.P. but the Fox News anchors.
mad scientist on January 3, 2013 at 8:59 PM
I have had a few female bosses and will pass on any future repeats. Too much drama, infighting, and personalization. Like you say, there are some, but there are too many of the wrong type as well.
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 8:46 PM
Agreed.
mad scientist on January 3, 2013 at 9:04 PM
This is simply not true.
It does, but people give it a pass in men. When a man acts like a catty jerk, he’s just being an aggressive man. When a woman acts catty, she’s a horrible b**ch. It’s a double standard, unfortunately
I’ve spent a lot of time in very politically charged environments. Male politicians and their underlings are catty as all get out, backstabbing, gossiping, undermining, doing all the things that women do and worse. They’re downright vicious, but they get a pass, because they are male. This behavior is surprisingly common, and some of the worst, most petty people I have worked with are male, though I have experienced this behavior from both genders as for some reason I am a moron magnet.
It’s not a male/female behavior. It is a human behavior.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 9:04 PM
You left out the parts of her breaking the law and never having to answer for it due to her husband. Hillary Clinton possesses no redeeming qualities.
Rio Linda Refugee on January 3, 2013 at 9:07 PM
So, me and my wife are not human or something?
it is a lower form of human nature. One of the lesser developed then.
astonerii on January 3, 2013 at 9:08 PM
….very insecure men.
If you are talking about trying to get the attention of a woman then yes, you might see this behavior. Otherwise, not that much. They just get the job done and for the most part could care less about personal issues.
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 9:10 PM
I agree. Alpha Dog or Queen Bee, it’s basically the same thing.
Fallon on January 3, 2013 at 9:12 PM
This is the point I’m making. You’re attempting to justify and/or minimize this behavior in men. A man who acts catty is an insecure minority, not representative of the population, but in effect you’ve accepted my information as correct by admitting that there are large numbers of men who do engage in this behavior.
No one here is attempting to say that all women (or all men) engage in catty, backstabbing behavior, but many do.
It’s about tearing down the alpha chimp, whether they are male or female. The beta chimps will use whatever means necessary in order to tear down the individuals above them.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 9:16 PM
Reminiscent of my stint at a stock brokerage. Everyone was young (even the boss), and vying for Alpha Dog status, male and female alike. Client-stealing was verboten, but if one of them had to handle a complaint because the customer’s broker was at lunch or on another call, it wasn’t uncommon to hear the helpful co-worker agree that yes, Johnny Broker is something of an ass.
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 3, 2013 at 9:21 PM
No, this is the same silly argument that if the My Lai massacre took place, then the US is no different than the Viet Cong. Women engage in this behavior extensively as evidenced by what happened with Sarah Palin, and others. It’s become a cliché in schools and in society in general for a reason. There is no conspiracy to cover it up on the part of men.
You guys do it too isn’t an argument.
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 9:24 PM
The difference of course is that it’s orthodox to detest Sarah Palin. Why, even half of Republicans do! But by God, if you even dare to suggest that Hillary Clinton is anything less than angelic, you’re an irrational h8er wingnut.
ddrintn on January 3, 2013 at 9:25 PM
I don’t think so either. Romney and Ryan are both good-looking guys. I liked Romney as a person and hope I look as good as he does now if I live to his age. I just didn’t like his politics.
ddrintn on January 3, 2013 at 9:27 PM
Regardless of what she does or how incompetent her job performance (Benghazi).
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 9:28 PM
That’s my take. I don’t like his liberalism, but I don’t begrudge him his money, or his success in his personal life.
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 9:30 PM
What I find funny is how you believe that “men often do this as well” – relatively speaking, no way!
As the article pointed out, “Men and women behave very differently when it comes to recognizing status and hierarchy. Gender researchers say that men have no problem with pecking orders, whether it’s on the soccer field on in the boardroom. They recognize the top dog, who occupies second and third place, without envy (mostly) and everything about their seating and speaking order at meetings, body language, status symbols, bear witness to this. That doesn’t mean of course that they won’t compete for better positions. And they usually do this by emulating the top man and copying his strategies. And when they make it to the top, they see no reason to play that down”,
and as sharrukin indicated,
it’s safe to state that your perception is limited and skewed.
Anti-Control on January 3, 2013 at 9:30 PM
Yep. His faith, his family, his terrific wife, his business acumen were all admirable. But politically it just doesn’t get you over RomneyCare. And anti-Hillarys can generally give you quite distinct political reasons for their dislike of her. I have rarely — extremely rarely — heard anyone articulately express hatred of Sarah Palin for her politics. There’s your difference.
ddrintn on January 3, 2013 at 9:32 PM
Do you guys really believe women don’t recognize pecking orders? Seriously? Well, except for a very few overconfident ugly women… I keed, I keed.
Fallon on January 3, 2013 at 9:36 PM
Hillary has rabid female supporters, but I’m like the other women here who would never be a doormat for a rapist husband. He sent her on tv to unknowingly lie for him, FFS. He cheated on her again while she was running for president! Liberals will protect any abusive male if it serves their political ends. The hypocrisy is beyond disgusting. And, according to a book about the Secret Service I read, she is a real bitch who treated WH staff horribly.
Then you have someone like Palin who did NOT ride any male relative’s coattails or money into power, or enable a sexual predator. Back in 2008 I would’ve followed her into a fire with a gas can.
I’ve had mediocre female and male bosses. I’ve been on boards where the female chairmen were absolutely sterling, and I would follow those women anywhere too.
I look at people as individuals.
juliesa on January 3, 2013 at 9:36 PM
Not just Romneycare, but a whole slew of policies. Personally, he would probably be a great guy, but politically he’s a mess.
There have been a few and most of the examples are weak sauce but at least they tried. Most, its just her hair, her voice, her daughter, her money, etc.
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 9:37 PM
Are you serious?
I’m speaking honestly about human behavior on an evolutionary level. Understanding what we are and why we act the way we do is important to understanding how we can best address and correct for the more undesirable aspects of the human psyche in our society.
It is not a man/woman thing, it’s a HUMAN thing. Beta chimps tend to feel threatened by the alpha chimp of the same gender, because its THAT chimp who is standing between them and success. Look at primate societies and you will see this behavior every single day in both genders, because it’s just how primates are.
I find this especially funny since your comments sound a tad, well, insecure.
And by the way, a lot of the people trying to tear down Sarah Palin were men, not women. But I guess those men don’t count.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 9:37 PM
I find it entertaining when men feel threatened by silly trivialities and feel the need to attack the purveyor of the information that challenges their narrow-minded worldview.
It all seems so insecure.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 9:40 PM
No. Y’all are vicious for the most part.
Males tend to resort to beating the crap out of each other – women get serious and resort to psy-ops.
CorporatePiggy on January 3, 2013 at 9:41 PM
Well, I for one am getting tired of you who are not commenting on threads generated by the HotAir female staff. I mean just look at the numbers. The overwhelming comments are going to the male staff. Shame on you!
Sexists!
davidk on January 3, 2013 at 9:41 PM
True. And many of them do so for a couple of reasons: 1. to curry favor with female Palin haters and 2. resentment of attractive women. Men can absolutely be misogynistic, but I didn’t think that was your point. I thought that you were suggesting that a lot of conservative male antipathy toward, say, Obama was due to resentment that many women find Obama to be a good-looking guy. I couldn’t care less about that.
ddrintn on January 3, 2013 at 9:41 PM
Yep. The Neocon fellas got there before liberals even knew what to make of her.
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 3, 2013 at 9:44 PM
I disagree with Erika quite a bit, but I comment on her posts and she’s as cute as a button.
ddrintn on January 3, 2013 at 9:44 PM
Stop being so catty.
On an evolutionary level, men cannot generally engage in the behavior you are suggesting because it would get them killed. Men react with violence which is why they have to be more restrained in their conduct. They also have to be able to trust the guy beside them to back them up in a pinch. Sorry, it doesn’t wash.
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 9:46 PM
And then people made fun of Ryan for his Eddie Munster hair, and Romney because he was a Mormon, or because he used somewhat quaint turns of phrase instead of swearing.
I remember plenty of stupid catty attacks on both of these individuals because they were a threat to the established chimpanzee heirarchy and needed to be neutralized.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 9:46 PM
lol
You are not a scientist, you are only going by your personal experiences/observations, and I find your denial and corresponding projection about your own insecurity to be even more entertaining than what you perceive about me!
I have had many female friends throughout my life – almost every one of them was of the type who preferred having guys as friends because they detested all of the catty BS they went through with other women. Guess what the average attractiveness level of my female friends has been?
Anti-Control on January 3, 2013 at 9:47 PM
Very, VERRY few guys objected to Ryan on that basis.
Which might be irrational in disliking Romney, but it doesn’t ave anything to do with hating on Romney becuase of his “alpha” status.
You’re getting into the mode of finding ANY attack on Romney or Ryan to be “catty”. Won’t wash.
ddrintn on January 3, 2013 at 9:48 PM
Please grow up and refrain from personal attacks if you don’t want to get it thrown back in your face. Relax and embrace your inner chimp and stop being so insecure.
And sometimes it DOES get them killed, in large numbers, or are you not aware of the bickering and politicking that is the root cause of so many wars throughout history. So obviously they ARE capable of acting this way because if they weren’t then there would be no war, using your logic, anyway.
You would not have done well in the noble courts of Europe, where the established norm for men and women alike was to out cat one another for centuries.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 9:50 PM
How is a longterm barrage of vicious insults against a person for their choice of undergarments (Mitt) or their hairline (Ryan) NOT to be considered catty?
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 9:51 PM
It’s not insecurity. We can give very cogent reasons for not approving of Obama or Romney or any other male pol OR female pols like Hillary Clinton without saying “they’re just STUPID!!! Trashy!!!! Bimbo!!!!” or whatever. That’s the difference. The ad hominem flung at Hillary stems in part for the lying front she put up during the ’92 campaign and her trail of lies and smears since then.
ddrintn on January 3, 2013 at 9:54 PM
Tell me this young woman doesn’t have beauty and power.
http://www.mansanity.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/HLIC/694a84157968d093d050ab35bd47bacb.jpg
davidk on January 3, 2013 at 9:54 PM
How often did you see those “vicious insults” from someone not a liberal Democrat? They demonize GOPers on any grounds.
ddrintn on January 3, 2013 at 9:55 PM
I don’t agree. Many of the beltway Rs took umbrage at Mrs. Palin’s (non-Ivy) education, and folksy way of speaking. They often seemed embarrassed by her very existence (this goes for Fred Barnes as well as Kathleen Parker).
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 3, 2013 at 9:55 PM
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