Why women don’t like powerful women
American author and journalism professor Katie Roiphe, who wrote an essay entitled Elect Sister Frigidaire about the strange antipathy so many women feel for Hillary Clinton, suggests that we may like to imagine strong women but that we don’t actually like them. As much as women complain about the differences in salaries, support quotas, pay lip service to breaking the glass ceiling – when a woman actually makes it big, for many the reaction is not joy – far from it in fact – many women are downright miffed.
Instead of being inspired and motivated by the success of other women, it seems to be perceived as a direct attack on their own life and to provoke comments that cut the successful woman down to size.
The phenomenon is that much stronger if the standout woman is not only successful in her career, but is also a mother – and God forbid attractive as well! Any mother working full time who makes an effort with a group of full-time moms – maybe even brings a cake she baked – knows the feeling, and how hard it is to smile through the dire looks all the moms are exchanging about her…
Men and women behave very differently when it comes to recognizing status and hierarchy. Gender researchers say that men have no problem with pecking orders, whether it’s on the soccer field on in the boardroom. They recognize the top dog, who occupies second and third place, without envy (mostly) and everything about their seating and speaking order at meetings, body language, status symbols, bear witness to this. That doesn’t mean of course that they won’t compete for better positions. And they usually do this by emulating the top man and copying his strategies. And when they make it to the top, they see no reason to play that down.
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Okay, I may have said or inferred he was in The Bubble but I also believe Romney was the GOP establishment
chimpchoice, deserving of my mockery and derision. I did get lost in Ryan’s dreamboat eyes… but now he can just get lost.Fallon on January 3, 2013 at 9:55 PM
Actually I am a scientist, and I multiple graduate degrees. so nyah.
Denial is a river in egypt. I’m not denying anything. Nor am I projecting. That’s really grasping at straws. Nor did I implicate any individual in my original post. I merely stated that this behavior is actually genderless, but that men tend to get more of a pass on it in society.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 9:56 PM
By asking this question seriously, your lack of creativity and of a good sense of humor is showing, and I don’t expect you to hear me because I believe you are too self-righteous to consider that I am right about this, and that you are not, which leads me to laugh at you!
Anti-Control on January 3, 2013 at 9:56 PM
And fabulousness!!
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 3, 2013 at 9:58 PM
Of course there are men who will be resentful of powerful women as well. A lot of men are simply intimidated by good-looking women. But I don’t think anyone can say that’s ever been the basis for disliking Hillary. I don’t think she’s ever been exactly what I would call a hottie.
It can also be an expression of just pure old elitism.
ddrintn on January 3, 2013 at 9:58 PM
Fred Barnes’ resentment was of the elitist kind. Parker’s is transparent sexual jealousy.
ddrintn on January 3, 2013 at 10:00 PM
Wars are about a lot more than men being mean and aggressive and feeling insecure.
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 10:00 PM
By asking this question seriously, your lack of creativity and of a good sense of humor is showing, and I don’t expect you to hear me because I believe you are too self-righteous to consider that I am right about this, and that you are not, which leads me to laugh at you!
Anti-Control on January 3, 2013 at 9:56 PM
Actually I’m finding this all quite entertaining because I appear to have stirred up the hive of insecure beta chimps or something, otherwise why would anyone get so upset about this and attempt to make such poor quality arguments?
And if you’re going to laugh, do it with panache.
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 10:01 PM
Agreed!
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 3, 2013 at 10:02 PM
So, cat fights with ICBMs?
/*rowr* *hiss* *boom*
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 10:04 PM
We’re making good counter-arguments, and your response is something along the lines of Monty Python’s Argument Clinic.
ddrintn on January 3, 2013 at 10:04 PM
Your desire for heavy petting is noted.
portlandon on January 3, 2013 at 10:05 PM
Okayyy, now this has strayed into Effing Creepy territory.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 10:06 PM
Congrats, sincerely, but I meant about this particular topic.
You said it happens often with men, and I contended that it happens with men relatively rarely when compared to women, and I challenge you to look at the data which led those gender researchers to make the conclusion they did, and refute it.
You are misreading our reactions, you are continuing to demonstrate that you are suffering from confirmation bias, and I predict that you will never understand why I say that, for reasons I’ve already laid out!
Anti-Control on January 3, 2013 at 10:07 PM
Translation: Look at me! Look at me! Look at me! Look at me! Look at me! Look at me! Look at me! Look at me! Look at me! Look at me!
portlandon on January 3, 2013 at 10:09 PM
Not really, your arguments ahave mostly been either
a) denial
b) “well it’s only the INSECURE men, and they don’t count”
c) “I’m right because my personal experience trumps human evolutionary biology”
d) “I’m right because you countered my argument with a true statement and I didn’t like it”
It’s the internet, everyone, calm down, embrace your inner chimp, and stop thinking of everything as a threat to your masculinity.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 10:09 PM
Grow up.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 10:11 PM
Grow up.
sharrukin on January 3, 2013 at 10:12 PM
I’m not misreading this at all. I made a general statement, and then the HotAir Testosterone Brigade(tm) crawled out of the woodwork, and I think its funny.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 10:13 PM
THE CLAWS HAVE COME OUT, FOLKS
The amount of petty behavior on display tonight from several (presumable) male subjects is just FASCINATING
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 10:14 PM
That was a perfect denial – how do you know you aren’t misreading things here? How do you know you aren’t suffering from confirmation bias?
On a 0-10 scale, tell us how openminded you honestly believe yourself to be – I’ll go first, and tell you that I give you a 6-6.5
Anti-Control on January 3, 2013 at 10:20 PM
I didn’t click on the link and read the whole thing, because I got bored after the excerpt. I don’t dislike Hillary because she’s a powerful woman. I dislike her because she’s a weak woman with a lot of power, which she abuses because she is weak.
JannyMae on January 3, 2013 at 10:25 PM
DangerHighVoltage telling portlondon to “grow up”=acceptable, mature, secure behavior
sharrukin telling DangerHighVoltage to “grow up”=unacceptable, immature, “petty behavior”
Full of yourself much, DangerHighVoltage?
Anti-Control on January 3, 2013 at 10:27 PM
So an unknown internet poster tells me I’m in denial after having been given no real reason to change my views other than the unknown internet poster says I’m wrong, and so therefore I’m in denial. Hmm.
Being closed minded and stubborn are two different things. (Though they do go hand in hand sometimes) I am not the former, but I admit I am the latter. I can be persuaded to change my mind, and have done so more than once, when I’ve been presented with extensive evidence that suggests I should change my opinion. Generic internet posts from users of unknown provenance isn’t generally gonna do it.
Mostly I’m just poking about while I wait for my work files to load right now. I genuinely do think this is all funny that there are some people here who seem to get very defensive whenever someone makes a comment about the male gender that could be construed as negative. My initial post wasn’t negative, and I never intended it to be so. Human beings are what they are and it isn’t going to change. We’re not friendly creatures, nor are we designed to be, but we’ve got enough wits about us to understand that we CAN change, but only if we make a sincere effort to do so. The first step is, however, admitting what we are.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 10:30 PM
No, but if you read the entire thing you’ll realize that I didn’t start any of this. I made a neutral comment, and then the fangs came out from several posters who clearly can’t see that they are proving my initial point by acting the way they are. I don’t start things, but I also don’t roll over when people make negative comments to me.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 10:32 PM
Powerful women who also managed to have a solid family life (and especially ones named Palin) are successful despite the feminist doctrine. Those women must be disliked and shunned because they show the feminist doctrine as the BS that it is.
I’ve never had more trouble in my working life than with insecure women who felt that the only way to success was climbing over someone else’s prone body.
Until women realize that each other are not the enemies or competition we will continue to bash our foreheads on the glass ceiling.
kim roy on January 3, 2013 at 10:32 PM
That’s because the modern conceptof “feminism”is much more about creating a new dependent class based along gender lines than it is empowering women.
I am very pro gender equality, and I generally find most modern feminists to be annoying.
DangerHighVoltage on January 3, 2013 at 10:35 PM
“It was rightly noted in Denver that Hillary made 18 million cracks in the highest, hardest glass ceiling in America. It turns out the women of America aren’t finished yet, and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all.”
~ Sarah Palin
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 3, 2013 at 10:48 PM
The very first woman to come to my mind is Sarah Palin. And yours, too. Don’t deny it.
Mirimichi on January 3, 2013 at 11:00 PM
I said you are in denial and not very openminded, and you give an looooong, rather oblique response. Think that works in your favor?
Combine that with how I don’t agree with your premise about “We’re not friendly creatures…” but you do, indicting yourself. So…you are admittedly not a friendly creature, and you view everyone else’s behavior through that lens…as far as I am concerned, you’ve got unpleasant, repellent issues, or, as Ladysmith CulchaVulcha might say, not just issues, but, whole subscriptions!
Anti-Control on January 3, 2013 at 11:01 PM
Women are jealous of other women in certain situations. Women want to be the Queen Bee and never had to function in organized groups like men did.
Men had to go on the hunt or plant the fields or fight off an invader and had to organize themselves in order to achieve success. All the men in a group learned that a well working group was critical to success, and dysfunctional group was doomed for failure. The men who were best at organization and alliances became leaders and thus gained more land, more wealth and etc., this in turn improved their chances of getting a mate and survival of their offspring. Thus in order to find a mate you needed to either run a successful group or belong to a successful group.
Women on the other hand did not need to organize into functioning groups in order to find a mate. They just needed to attract a mate individually with their looks, skill, intelligence and personality, or they came from families that had successful men who married them off to other successful men.
A successful woman is seen biologically as some sort of threat to other women in their quest to get the best man. It angers them that they get this attention and they don’t. The same is true for other traits like looks, smarts, wealth, etc.
This explained the bizarre Hillary vs. Obama dynamic in 2008. If it were true that women would flock to another woman running for president than Obama should have been toast. Yet lots of women, including many single women seemed to flock to Obama. Even after on numerous occasions Obama said things that sounded sexist, they still voted for him over Hillary. It was almost like they were competing for his love. Hence his campaign resembled more of a music star road trip than that for a president. Obama’s team did this on purpose.
William Eaton on January 3, 2013 at 11:41 PM
The very first woman to come to my mind is Sarah Palin. And yours, too. Don’t deny it.
Mirimichi on January 3, 2013 at 11:00 PM
BoxHead1 on January 3, 2013 at 11:44 PM
Well. That escalated quickly.
davidk on January 3, 2013 at 11:56 PM
I believe what happened here was what you might call a “conservative cat-fight” (only without hundreds of men ogling by).
nobar on January 4, 2013 at 12:40 AM
Nah. The women on this thread got along famously! It was a bunch of males vs. one female (who we ladies didn’t seem to mind being the “Alpha” in the room).
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 4, 2013 at 3:11 AM
If HighVoltage is an alpha female, Resist We Much isn’t.
Between the 2 of them, who is more fun, has a better sense of humor, is a better listener, and has a far more linear pattern of thought? I rest my case on the matter!
Anti-Control on January 4, 2013 at 4:04 AM
What … Hillary is a woman?
kregg on January 4, 2013 at 5:17 AM
Yikes! And gol-darned your fantastic memory!
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 4, 2013 at 7:05 AM
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