The Hobbit: Why are there no women in Tolkien’s world?
I did not read The Hobbit or the The Lord of the Rings trilogy as a child, and I have always felt a bit alienated from the fandom surrounding them. Now I think I know why: Tolkien seems to have wiped women off the face of Middle-earth. I suppose it’s understandable that a story in which the primary activity seems to be chopping off each other’s body parts for no particular reason might be a little heavy on male characters — although it’s not as though Tolkien had to hew to historical accuracy when he created his fantastical world. The problem is one of biological accuracy. Tolkien’s characters defy the basics of reproduction: dwarf fathers beget dwarf sons, hobbit uncles pass rings down to hobbit nephews. If there are any mothers or daughters, aunts or nieces, they make no appearances. Trolls and orcs especially seem to rely on asexual reproduction, breeding whole male populations, which of course come in handy when amassing an army to attack the dwarves and elves…
And then there is the argument that none of this should matter, that it’s not just fiction but fantasy after all. But Peter Jackson, the director of The Hobbit, has said, “To me, fantasy should be as real as possible. I don’t subscribe to the notion that because it’s fantastical it should be unrealistic. I think you have to have a sense of belief in the world that you’re going into, and the levels of detail are very important.” I should think that would include — especially in an intergenerational saga — something as important as the perpetuation of species, whether furry-footed or not.









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They’re demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.
The glaring difference between what’s in this thread and the article that prompted it is the article is serious and the comments in this thread are so tongue-in-cheek that said tongues are nearly bursting through to the outside. Relax.
alchemist19 on December 31, 2012 at 11:55 PM
arnold ziffel, get your head out of your ass.
I appreciate the few commentators who have made contributions with regards to the lack of females in the film based on their knowledge of the plot . However, most of the comments in this thread involve degrading characterizations of women. How can you even begin to defend them? I am i die hard conservative, but this behavior is antithetical to true conservatism.
stuckinwisconsin on December 31, 2012 at 11:56 PM
No one should tell Ruth Davis Konigsberg about Éowyn. I thought Tolkien’s understanding and development of her character was very full and complete. He blended her bitterness, bravery and angst, and with her love for and uncle and brother very realistically. His depiction of her and Faramir in the Houses of Healing was quite moving. Her declaration after realizing she loved Faramir would be anathema to any feminist.
INC on December 31, 2012 at 11:59 PM
Will you stop whining, already?
ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 1, 2013 at 12:17 AM
No kidding. Someone’s sure to have a crappy new year in Wisky.
Christien on January 1, 2013 at 12:20 AM
Sorry for expressing my opinions and reactions to the comments posted in this thread. Have a happy New Year, everyone.
stuckinwisconsin on January 1, 2013 at 12:22 AM
For the same reason there are no men in “The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.”
At least, I presume there are none.
Russ on January 1, 2013 at 12:47 AM
I love postmodernist *-bag takes on Tolkien that treat him like some hack pulp writer with dreams of getting his stuff optioned by Hollywood.
Tolkien wasn’t just the father of a genre, he was its creator-god. That’s not to say his books were awesomely awesome – to the contrary, they’re brutally overwritten and I can’t blame people for thinking they’re tedious, but that’s just the point. He had nothing to touch against except magazine pulp and folklore. He was creating a fake history for his British linguistic experiment.
And yes, I’ll agree that the absolute void of even mention of female characters in The Hobbit is a bit creepy. I think there’s one scene with some elves where it’s implied that all of them need not necessarily be male, and that’s about it for female characters in that book. But the Time idiot is implying this is the case in all of the Middle Earth books, which is nonsense. Yes, women have diminished roles in Tolkien’s other books, as you would expect in a mimicry of real history and male-centered adventure epics that are the British heritage, but this falls more under “feminist critique” and not “perpetuation of the species” and it’s pedantic to pretend otherwise.
HitNRun on January 1, 2013 at 12:52 AM
Let’s not forget Rosie Cotton and baby Elanor. And Belladonna Took, and Frodo’s mother who drowned (can’t remember her name right now).
toby11 on January 1, 2013 at 12:53 AM
And this is supposed to convince me you’re not a liberal?
Young people and [single] women. In other words, those looking for Daddy Government to take care of them by picking the pockets of those who can take care of themselves. Being out of touch with that demographic is a point of honor.
Splashman on January 1, 2013 at 12:53 AM
I imagine you’re not follow this thread anymore. But if you are, how about giving a specific example of a comment you find offensive, rather than just whining about all of the horrible comments?
Fenris on January 1, 2013 at 1:09 AM
Lighten up, Francine.
Signed,
A woman
cptacek on January 1, 2013 at 1:13 AM
Maybe ‘Middle Earth’ is just a bar in Boystown: Where men are men, and so are the women.
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 1, 2013 at 1:47 AM
How dare a man writing an adventure story for his sons in the early 1930s not take 21st century feminist sensibilities into account!
Rip Ford on January 1, 2013 at 2:07 AM
Have not read Tolkien, so cannot comment, but the author of this article should try Joseph Conrad for perspective.
OldEnglish on January 1, 2013 at 2:08 AM
Primula Brandybuck, wife of Drogo Baggins. Both were drowned in a boating accident when Frodo was 12, leading to his adoption by his uncle, Bilbo.
trigon on January 1, 2013 at 2:22 AM
Because war is the purview of men, Eowyn.
Sheesh. As a woman who has read LotR at least 3 times and The Hobbit only twice, and seen the movies too many to count, this kind of thinking drives me crazy. JRR Tolkien gave one of the greatest scenes in history to a female. She is a Mary figure and defeats the bloody king of the Nazgul. What more do you want? Why are some people never satisfied and think the world revolves around ‘their life experience’?
Now I need to get to bed so I can have energy to make my man a sammich tomorrow. He might need the energy to fight off some leftist troll or something.
Happy new year you sexist hotarians you.
pannw on January 1, 2013 at 2:36 AM
Maybe JRRT wasn’t casting The View.
Ronnie on January 1, 2013 at 3:09 AM
Not only has she not read the books, but looks like she hasn’t even watched the movie. In this scene it certainly looks like the Uruk Hai is asexual, breeding whole male populations to attack the dwarves, elves and humans.
DFCtomm on January 1, 2013 at 3:19 AM
I see some have taken offense by my request the author of the article quit her yapping and fix me a sandwich.
Having seen that she has no idea what she’s talking about, I consider her unfit for the vocation of writing.
I was merely giving her a chance at another vocation which is useful, creative, and rewarding.
Those who assumed I was being a sexist… are not invited to fix me a sandwich. I consider you unfit for such duty. You may go scrub that bit just behind the toilet.
There must be something you can do.
You see my generous nature at not simply consigning you to slow starvation as the natural consequence of being considered unfit for any labor?
I expect that area to be spic and span. Get at it.
Scribbler on January 1, 2013 at 3:24 AM
In the tale of Beren and Luthien, her father sets Beren on an impossible quest for a Silmaril as the price for wooing his daughter — and she assists her suitor in completing the quest. Being an elf, she could well have just turned away for a hundred years and looked back to see the mortal Beren as dust, but she took up the quest beside her man and together they stole a jewel from the crown of Sauron’s master.
But, gee, Tolkien didn’t include enough women in his writings.
Incidentally — another nerd cred thing — Galadriel predates the Silmarils…..in fact, their creation was partially inspired by her hair. Feanor, the elven creator of the jewels, requested her hair as part of their creation and was denied…..which made it all the more poignant when she granted Gimli her hair in LOTR.
cthulhu on January 1, 2013 at 5:30 AM
I hope that the offended young lady, my fellow Midwesterner, does not despair. Haven’t read anything official, but I would guess that HotGas is about 3/4ths male. So it won’t be too far afield to suggest that the comments have a bit more than the recommended anti-doping ‘Tour de France’ limits of testosterone behind it.
The trick is knowing who you are, young woman. And know the era you live in! Lots of guys nowadays don’t think they’ll get married, so they learn to make a very fine sammich themselves, and will make one for you, too!
Lucky ’13.
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on January 1, 2013 at 5:42 AM
So many great comments here. And yet “Time” pays writers like Ruth Davis Konigsberg to crank out sh*t like this? “Newsweak” will have company soon.
Clink on January 1, 2013 at 6:07 AM
Nicely done.
rogerb on January 1, 2013 at 6:53 AM
Really? Calling out the stupid for what it is?
The very first line written utterly disqualifies the author from continuing any further but were stupid for pointing that out?
May I point out your a tool for making such a statement? Or would that damage your delicate senseabilities?
gdonovan on January 1, 2013 at 8:33 AM
pannw on January 1, 2013 at 9:41 AM
Don’t know what just happened. Stupid phone. Had a whole reply and it just vanished. I’ll just say I want you to know I wasn’t taking offense at you when I mentioned making a sammich. I do make him sammiches and take pride in them. I think it’s funny when you guys go after feminist man haters with that. Just so you know. Happy 2013.
pannw on January 1, 2013 at 9:46 AM
Since my screen name is one of the aforementioned non-existent women in Tolkien’s universe I might as well weigh in here. Ms. “Haven’t Read the Books” is obviously unaware of the high value Tolkien placed on women. If you want to read the love story of he and his wife read the chapter “Of Beren and Luthien” in the Silmarillion. Then google a picture of he grave site. His headstone reads “Beren” and Edith’s reads “Luthien.”
And if you really want to geek-out read Silmarillion and discover that Manwe is more powerful when he is with Varda and she more powerful when with him.
I could go on but you get the picture.
IdrilofGondolin on January 1, 2013 at 10:12 AM
The writer is a shrill attention-seeking harpy with an ax to grind. That comment is all the attention I care to give her.
Professor Tolkien was a gifted linguist and visionary. He inspired praise and criticism from those in the greater halls of learning, and he enchanted untold numbers of young readers who read his books along backwoods streams in the summer sun. I was lucky enough to be one of the latter. I can never thank him enough for the gift of the world he shared with us, and for my life-long love of reading which he engendered.
With that said, I’ll be fortunate enough to be spending a week or so in London later this year. A day trip up to Oxford to pay our quiet respects to the Professor and his wife at their final place of rest is in our plans.
Niere on January 1, 2013 at 10:29 AM
Ridiculous. One of the oldest and most powerful beings in Middle Earth, Gladriel, was female, and the Witch-King was killed by a woman.
A partial list of females mentioned by Tolkien throughout his works:
Warrior-women:
Haleth
Eowyn
Queens of the Valar:
Varda (aka Elbereth)
Yavanna
Nienna
Este
Vaire
Vana
Nessa
Queens of Numenor and Gondor:
Tar-Ancalimë
Tar-Telperiën
Tar-Vanimeldë
Míriel Ar-Zimraphel
Firiel
Beruthiel
Female Hobbits:
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins
Rosie Cotton
Belladonna Took
Primula Brandybuck
various others
Prominent female Elves:
Idril
Luthien
Arwen
Galadriel
Other:
Melian
Goldberry
Shelob
Ungoliant
Walter Sobchak on January 1, 2013 at 12:44 PM
Grima Wormtongue was definitely a beta-male. He had to achieve his ends by guile. He wanted Eowyn but was afraid to pursue her outright because she would have kicked his ass or killed him. He kind of redeemed himself at the end by killing Saruman though.
Walter Sobchak on January 1, 2013 at 12:54 PM
Next up from Time’s literary critics: There were no strong female characters in The Edda or The Faerie Queen
Walter Sobchak on January 1, 2013 at 1:11 PM
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