rightmind, I didn’t make the comparison between God and parents’ explanations so I’m not sure if your comment was addressed to me or someone else. That’s not quite what happened with God and Job. I do believe atheists can lead a good and moral life, but then the question is, who defines good and moral?

If you’d like to read the Bible, then I’d suggest beginning with Gospel of John.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NASB

This past August I wrote Jesus Christ and the Word of God. It’s my specific apologetic for the Bible—my reasons for believing it is the one and only Word of God.

Thank all of you again.

No, AH_C, not everybody believes God does exist. As an atheist I have no problem accepting and recognizing that some people do not share my beliefs. I believe they are mistaken; but I do not deny that they believe what they say they believe. I recommend you ask yourself why it is so important to you to believe that everybody ‘deep down’ shares your beliefs.

rightmind on December 20, 2012 at 3:13 PM

I know I’m getting old, but where do I say “everybody”? “Most” is not everybody. But I do know that if I toss a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps was the one hit. Sorta like I chose not to believe that bigfoot/aliens exists, but I’m always open to the possibility that one will get caught one of these days. Unlike atheists, I’m not adamant that they couldn’t exist but take each story or tale on its merits of probability. Whatevs.

What is this? You really think that an atheist living a moral life just doesn’t exist and can’t / won’t be observed?

rightmind on December 20, 2012 at 3:13 PM

And I should just accept that “on faith”? I thought that was considered “batshit crazy”?

Sort of like beleieving that an atheist can be a good person, I guess. Without evidennce, all we have to go on is faith that it’s possible.

malclave on December 20, 2012 at 12:39 PM

???

What is this? You really think that an atheist living a moral life just doesn’t exist and can’t / won’t be observed? What complete and utter nonsense.

The idea that religion has a monopoly on morality is false, and it is also dangerous, because people who accept it but reject religion then feel they must reject objective notions of good and evil. (Ever talk to a liberal on this topic? Yeah.)

INC, thanks for the responses and I am sorry to hear of your personal situation. I hope you get it worked out. Although I am not a believer, the material you presented still makes for an interesting perspective. Despite not taking this kind of material as truth, I believe that there is great value in reading / studying the old and new testaments as well as the quran, first, to understand what it is most of the rest of the world believes, and second, for the historical view.

As to the analogy of God behaving like a parent in attempting to explain things to children which do not or cannot understand … you can only believe this if you believe that God is incapable of explaining the subject matter to us in a way that we can understand. If you believe this, you must jettison the idea of an all-powerful God.

No, AH_C, not everybody believes God does exist. As an atheist I have no problem accepting and recognizing that some people do not share my beliefs. I believe they are mistaken; but I do not deny that they believe what they say they believe. I recommend you ask yourself why it is so important to you to believe that everybody ‘deep down’ shares your beliefs.

link

kastor on December 20, 2012 at 12:26 PM

Ahhhh. Poor atheists feel discriminated.
From your link:

Let’s be clear about something: Huckabee and company, with very little ambiguity, are claiming that those who live without God-belief are directly or indirectly responsible for violence and moral decline. This is discriminatory, contrary to the pluralistic values of modern society, and provably false. Consider facts:
•The vast majority of developed counties have no state-sponsored school prayer, and none have problems of violent crime (and gun violence in particular) remotely akin to that of the US.

Classic faith in things unseen/wished for/unproven. Projection is thy name. But keep deluding yourselves.

Actually in most developed countries, inconvenient facts are ignored. Having lived in Berlin for an extended period, I know for a fact that violence by Turks/Muslims only make news in random acts of journalism. the majority are intentionally unreported and intentionally not recorded in crime stats – their motto is “Must remain Multi-kulti and tolerant of pluralistic values, including the values of those that are OK with honor killings, dhimmi rapes etc” Or take the slums of the outer Paris suburbs. Just because these crimes are under-reproted, it doesn’t mean that the average Frog are unaware. They know good and well to avoid these areas. Going back to Berlin, I’ve witnessed crimes, only to never hear a peep from the MSM.

I asked a cop friend why? Politically incorrect. Only widely known incidents get reported, the ones with few witnesses are glossed over or ignored. This same cop took early medical retirement after a young turk aimed a realistic looking pistol at him and pulled the triger point-blank. As his life flashed by, he got a welt between the eyes from a pellet gun.
Plenty more other anecdotes etc. Cops don’t mess with vietnamese gangs as they ran black market cigarettes because they don’t want to get shot – I saw one with a Saturday Night Special peeking out from the waistband at Europa Platz when one of the gang members was scurrying to take a defensive position when it appeared the cops might be making a raid. Few who saw the gun moved away while the oblivious enjoyed the sights. Luckily nothing happend as the cops only harrassed some neo-nazis providing entertainment for the onlookers. My wife thot I was paranoid after i had grabbed the kids and moved as far away and into a store front as quick as possible. Her comment – don’t be silly, guns are illegal. What evs.

•Nonbelievers tend to be educated and productive members of society, not agents of evil as suggested by Huckabee and company. Over 90 percent of the National Academy of Sciences holds atheist or agnostic views.

??? What does this prove? Thousands of “scientists” believe in AGW.

It’s great that many Americans, even those who are religious, find the statements of Huckabee and company objectionable, but it’s unfortunate that the objections focus on the wrong issue. Rather than argue about whether God is jealous and vindictive or loving and compassionate (or at least in addition to that argument), Americans should be calling out fundamentalists for depicting nonbelievers as agents of evil.

Really? Yeah, just look at how some of these Americans call out believers for their “evil” god and suggesting locking them up.

I get it, really, I do. Interesting alliances we have in the pursuit of “conservative” values.

batsht crazy = BELIEVING the claim of the existence of, let’s say, invisible dragons without evidence, proof, precedence. (aka faith)

kastor on December 20, 2012 at 10:02 AM

Sort of like beleieving that an atheist can be a good person, I guess. Without evidennce, all we have to go on is faith that it’s possible.