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Kurt Schlicter

Let’s have the conversation about guns

So let’s have that conversation, and let’s lay the cards on the table. Modern firearms (which really aren’t that modern) are highly effective weapons in the hands of an evil little freak who gets off shooting children. They are also highly effective weapons in my hands when defending my children from evil little freaks.

Liberals ask why I need these weapons. The answer is simple. I’m going to be as well-armed or better armed than the threat. Period.

Here’s the fact – bad people are going to have guns. And if you’ve ever smoked a joint, you are disqualified from arguing that prohibition works.

So, while we are talking, let’s talk about what we lawyers call “causation.” Since apparently we need a whole batch of new laws, perhaps we ought to see what laws might have prevented this crime. Well, we outlawed murder, but that didn’t seem to help. We outlawed stealing, but that creep stole the guns from his mother. He transported them, took them to a school, loaded them – all criminal violations, as was merely possessing the pistols at his age.

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Hmm… we aren’t talking guns, we are talking about how the kid stole the guns. Okay.

but this was still funny

Here’s the fact – bad people are going to have guns. And if you’ve ever smoked a joint, you are disqualified from arguing that prohibition works.

upinak on December 18, 2012 at 10:08 AM

Yes, let’s have that conversation!

The time is now or never. If the patriots don’t take this monster on full steam ahead and lay out the facts and more importantly DRIVE the facts home again and again… it will be all over for the 2nd Amendment.

katy on December 18, 2012 at 10:18 AM

Democratic lawmakers have begun preparing a new collection of anti-gun laws, including renewing the assault weapons ban, banning the purchase of high-capacity clips that spring bullets into guns

If the conversation is with people who use such language then count me out, I would get a better debate from one of my dogs.

Bishop on December 18, 2012 at 10:21 AM

Good read. In this National Conversation (TM) will it include stories of children and guns like this one:

Kendra St. Clair, a 12-year-old at home alone one day during her fall break, called her mother at work to say there was a man repeatedly ringing the doorbell and banging on the door. When no one answered the door, she said he disappeared. St. Clair’s mother instructed her daughter to get her .40-cal. Glock pistol and go into a bathroom closet. St. Clair heard him break in through the back door. As the man made his way through her home, 911 dispatchers kept St. Clair on the phone. He was inside the home for approximately six minutes before he made his way to the bathroom where St. Clair was hiding. When she saw the door knob begin to turn, she fired the gun. The 32-year-old intruder was taken into custody after being treated for a gunshot to the chest. (The Oklahoman, Durant, OK, 10/20/12)

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:25 AM

We need to have a conversation about the media and how the media is trying to erode our liberties. Every tragedy is exploited to advance their anti-American agenda and it has to stop.

Punchenko on December 18, 2012 at 10:27 AM

Or this story:

Brianne Rodriguez heard a knock at her front door just before 9 a.m., but ignored it. A few minutes later, Rodriguez heard loud noises coming from her bedroom. When she went to investigate, she discovered a man wearing a ski mask in her home. The confrontation led to a struggle and Rodriguez was pushed to the floor and kicked in the face and ribs. The masked man then grabbed her screaming 2-year-old daughter and bolted for the door. Rodriguez quickly retrieved a shotgun she kept in her bedroom and followed. Upon seeing the gun, the man dropped the child and fled. He escaped with Rodriguez’s purse and some jewelry, but Rodriguez and her daughter sustained no serious injuries. (KSEE 24 NEWS, Fresno County, CA, 8/28/12)

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Or this story:

Martha Lewis was at home with her two daughters when she heard a loud noise. It was 3 a.m., so Lewis immediately called police and grabbed her gun. She went to her daughters’ room and told them each to get something with which to defend themselves. They were at the top of the stairs when a man, who had kicked in the door and entered the home, spotted them. When the man started up the stairs toward them, Lewis warned the intruder that she would shoot him. When he ignored her warnings, Lewis fired causing him to stumble outside where police found him. The 25-year-old male was hospitalized in stable condition. After the incident, Lewis said, “There’s so much talk about banning guns and gun control, but they’re for protection. There’s no way that I could have fought him off.” (The Blaze, Dora, AL, 8/17/12)

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:29 AM

Leftist: “You’re skepticism of anthropogenic global warming is not valid because you don’t have a Ph.D. in atmospheric or environmental sciences.”

Same Leftist: “No, I’ve never owned a gun, held a gun, or even seen a gun in real life–only in the movies, video games, or on TV. However, I did watch ‘Bowling for Columbine’, so I consider myself enough of expert to write legislation restricting the ownership and manufacturing of guns. I care about The Children and The People, isn’t that enough?”

JimLennon on December 18, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:29 AM

thank you.

upinak on December 18, 2012 at 10:32 AM

*”You’re skepticism” should be “Your skepticism”. Ugh. Need more coffee…. zzz….

JimLennon on December 18, 2012 at 10:32 AM

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:25 AM

This reminds me of a not so happy ending story: A 12 year old was home sick and alone. Burglars broke in and took what they wanted and were leaving. As an after thought, one returned, stuck a gun in her mouth and pulled the trigger. I wish she had been effin’ armed.

Blake on December 18, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Or this story:

A 14-year-old boy was at home watching his three younger siblings, ages 8, 10 and 12, when a woman rang the doorbell. The teen did not open the door when he didn’t recognize the woman. Soon thereafter, there was a loud bang on the door. The teen rushed his siblings upstairs and retrieved a handgun from his parent’s bedroom. A man broke through the front door and pointed a gun at the boy, who then shot the 37-year-old intruder. After undergoing surgery for his wounds, the man was jailed on counts of aggravated assault and burglary. (The Durango Herald, Phoenix, AZ, 6/24/12)

If we’re going to have a National Discussion (TM) then it needs to be more than just a one sided shame-fest.

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Now *that’s* proper gun control! (Though it’s a shame he managed to be treated for the chest wound; always better if the police are just there to do the chalk outlines of the perp, and take a statement from the victim for their files.)

GWB on December 18, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Blake on December 18, 2012 at 10:35 AM

Dear Lord. That’s horrific.

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:36 AM

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:29 AM

I remember reading about that incident a while back, but with more detail.
The daughters armed themselves with a hammer and an axe.
They keep a gun, a hammer, and an axe. In their bedrooms. Upstairs.
My kind of women.

single stack on December 18, 2012 at 10:38 AM

single stack on December 18, 2012 at 10:38 AM

No doubt.

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Here’s how the converstaion should go –

“Machine guns should be illegal!”

“Uh, they are. And have been for a long time.”

“…”

JohnBrown on December 18, 2012 at 10:39 AM

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:35 AM

More please. :)

cptacek on December 18, 2012 at 10:41 AM

By the way, all the stories I quoted above are from the NRA’s section called The Armed Citizen that is printed monthly in the National Rifleman mag. These stories, however, are cited by the local papers/news outlets where each incident happened. You can read more here. I only listed a few that had to do with children, but there’s plenty more with the elderly, single women, store owners, etc.

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:43 AM

Oh, I also wonder what Democrat Rep. Leonard Boswell thinks about guns and saving family members’ lives:

When a gunman entered U.S. Rep. Leonard Boswell’s home, attacked his daughter and demanded money, Boswell ran to the entryway and attempted to disarm the suspect. “When you see one of the people that you love very much, you see they’re in that kind of danger, why, you have to do something,” Boswell said. Perhaps the intruder would’ve picked a different home had he known Boswell is an NRA A-rated Democrat. As Boswell struggled with the man, his 22-year-old grandson retrieved a shotgun and trained it on the intruder. The suspect fled the home. (FoxNews.com, 07/17/11)

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012 at 10:47 AM

And if you’ve ever smoked a joint, you are disqualified from arguing that prohibition works.

At first blush that seems a reasonable rebuttal. However, you can never underestimate the optimism of liberals as to how effective it will be this time.

For example, we could argue that with existing laws that distinguish possession from trafficking, and give leniency to possession of less than an ounce, that the difference is that we don’t have a zero-tolerance policy on pot. “This time” they’ll succeed, because guns can’t come into Chicago from greater Illinois and can’t come into Illinois from adjacent states. “This time” you’ll see, we will end all gun deaths.

You cannot stopper liberal enthusiasm with references to past failures. They are the ones who bought for a time that the stimulus bill would keep unemployment below 8 percent, and that when that didn’t work it needed to be 3 times greater. Stimulus II would work! They just know it will. (Actually, Stimulus II might have worked better, if the Dems were cowed by the downturn to do more than simply pass a bill of political payoffs and call it “stimulus”.)

Axeman on December 18, 2012 at 10:52 AM

“Both Barack Obama and John McCain will let us keep our guns…” said one political ad in 2008. I didn’t believe it then, and we’ll see…

Axeman on December 18, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Why the focus on guns and mental health? Seems like the massacre at Sandy Hook may have been an act of terrorism; mass murder of scores of innocent women and children to make a statement and have an impact on civil society much larger than the victims and families of the actual attack; isn’t this what terrorists do? The authorities may be in possession of evidence related to motives. If so they should release it to the public.

Tripwhipper on December 18, 2012 at 11:01 AM

Weight of Glory on December 18, 2012

Good stories. A couple more …

A 911 tape released to Oklahoma City media outlets Wednesday reveals that 18-year-old Sarah McKinley asked a Grady County dispatcher for permission to shoot the intruder. McKinley’s 3-month-old son was with her when she shot Justin Shane Martin, 24, at her Blanchard mobile home.

“I’ve got two guns in my hand. Is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door?” McKinley asked the dispatcher.

Henderson, N.C. — A 14-year-old Henderson boy calmly described in a 911 call how he shot an intruder in a home invasion last week.

“I just shot the man. He came around the corner. I shot him. He broke the whole glass out (of the back door),” the teen told the 911 dispatcher.

Authorities said Anthony Henderson Jr. 19, broke into the home at 586 S. Lynnbank Road on Thursday while the teen and his 17-year-old sister were home…

Henderson stumbled outside after being shot and was found dead on the lawn…

The boy’s sister called 911 to report that someone was banging on the door trying to get in. She said she was hiding in her bedroom closet but told the dispatcher that her brother had a gun.

After the brother got on the phone, the dispatcher ordered him to put down his shotgun.

Lost in Jersey on December 18, 2012 at 11:09 AM

“Both Barack Obama and John McCain will let us keep our guns…” said one political ad in 2008. I didn’t believe it then, and we’ll see…

Axeman on December 18, 2012 at 10:59 AM

Had to be a McCain ad, the guy who told us that we have nothing to fear from an 0bama presidency.

I dropped my NRA membership after they supported Harry Reid for Senate in 2010. I know the gun lobby needs major support at this time, but I just can’t give mine to the NRA. I’m sticking with other organizations like GOA.

UltimateBob on December 18, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Tripwhipper on December 18, 2012 at 11:01 AM

I notice as each lib pundit intones a list of the recent mass shootings, the Fort Hood shooting is left out. Nary a word…’cause that wasn’t terrorism as mass murder; it was workplace violence. See how easy that is?

a capella on December 18, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Why the focus on guns and mental health?

Tripwhipper on December 18, 2012 at 11:01 AM

I wonder that also. The radio was all abuzz yesterday and this morning with what schools needed to do to identify problem students so something like this wouldn’t happen again. If I didn’t know the story I would assume that it was a student that brought a gun into school.

Frank Enstine on December 18, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Let’s have the conversation about the media exploiting people’s grief for profit and how this is feeding the killers.

agmartin on December 18, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Why the focus on guns and mental health?

Tripwhipper on December 18, 2012 at 11:01 AM

Guns? As usual, the Left sees an opening to exploit a tragedy to further their anti-gun agenda. To paraphrase Rahm Emmanuel, a classroom of two dozen dead kindergarteners to too good(?) of a crisis to let go to waste.

Mental health? This one seems more legit, particularly given the Gabby Giffords shooter and the Colorado movie theater shooter. In all three cases, it looks as if people willfully ignored signs that the eventual shooter was descending into madness.

JimLennon on December 18, 2012 at 11:42 AM

Here’s the fact – bad people are going to have guns. And if you’ve ever smoked a joint, you are disqualified from arguing that prohibition works.

So, too, interdiction and confiscation.

Dusty on December 18, 2012 at 12:33 PM

[slickwillie2001 on December 18, 2012 at 11:37 AM]

From yesterday’s Jeb Golinkin,

Couple LaPierre’s claim with the other staple of gun rights advocates — that restricting gun ownership would not have prevented the perpetrators of any of these violent crimes from finding a way to carry out their grisly murders — and one can begin to piece together the logic driving the opponents of regulation. Many gun owners (the loud ones and the quiet ones) fundamentally reject the premise that the government is capable of protecting its citizens, and they chafe at the suggestion that they should trust anyone else to protect their spouses, children, and mothers from monsters like the one that allegedly gunned down 20 helpless children in Connecticut. They view the world as a sort of quasi-Hobbesian state of nature in which a fellow can only rely on himself for protection.

In light of this reality, it is not hard to understand why gun owners take it personally every time someone suggests regulating firearms. Just as women feel that the government ought not be able to dictate what they do with their bodies and their health, on some level, gun owners perceive gun regulation as interfering with their right to self-determination in a similar way. They do not want to rely on someone else to save them.

Upper threshold for relying on someone else to save you appears to be twenty minutes. Excuse me, that upper threshold is for arriving. They still need to understand the situation and then decide how to act.

It’s unconscionable, and negligent, that Connecticut government officials prohibit school district personnel from defending themselves in a meaningful way, by the reasonable measure of having a firearm available at the school, especially since they are charged with the responsibility for fully providing the children’s safety and security during the time they are in their custody.

Dusty on December 18, 2012 at 12:55 PM

Any conversation should start by establishing that the 2nd amendment isn’t about owning guns for hunting or sport. It’s not about shooting rabbits or paper targets. It’s about shooting a person who is, at that moment, your enemy.

The Rogue Tomato on December 18, 2012 at 12:58 PM