The morally serious argument of the pro-gun lobby
Couple LaPierre’s claim with the other staple of gun rights advocates — that restricting gun ownership would not have prevented the perpetrators of any of these violent crimes from finding a way to carry out their grisly murders — and one can begin to piece together the logic driving the opponents of regulation. Many gun owners (the loud ones and the quiet ones) fundamentally reject the premise that the government is capable of protecting its citizens, and they chafe at the suggestion that they should trust anyone else to protect their spouses, children, and mothers from monsters like the one that allegedly gunned down 20 helpless children in Connecticut. They view the world as a sort of quasi-Hobbesian state of nature in which a fellow can only rely on himself for protection.
In light of this reality, it is not hard to understand why gun owners take it personally every time someone suggests regulating firearms. Just as women feel that the government ought not be able to dictate what they do with their bodies and their health, on some level, gun owners perceive gun regulation as interfering with their right to self-determination in a similar way. They do not want to rely on someone else to save them.









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So it’s being dealt with. Have these illegal actions been condoned by conservatives far and wide as ernesto is claiming?
gwelf on December 17, 2012 at 1:10 PM
Exactly.
Because that’s not the argument we’re making. We’re making the argument that they do it because of their religion. This one self-identifying point makes the difference. (I’m not advocating for violating anyone’s constitutional civil liberties, btw.) If every Newtown were accompanied by shouts of “Long Live the NRA!” then you might have an (albeit weak) argument. Or, if almost every last one of them dressed up as Twinky Teletubbie, then you could get Pat Robertson on the phone and get to work on solving that issue. But, there is a HUGE group of folks in this world who want to enslave us – and kill some in the process, or kill us all if we don’t submit – and they come in two flavors: fascists/communists and islam. One self-identified group says “We insist you all give up your way of life and live under our god, or [as some continue on] we will kill you!” It’s not Sihks, Mormons, Buddhists, Taoists, Methodists or even those bast–ds at Phelps’ church (except insofar as any of those fall into the other group).
The key is not just to look for the common factor, it’s to look for the common driving factor. Guns are not the driving factor in Newtown, or in any other of the recent infamous school tragedies. The guns are merely a tool. You notice conservatives haven’t gone off about banning airplanes, right? Nor do we desire to ban Nitrite fertilizers or rental trucks. We understand that you don’t solve the problem by addressing the tools – you go to the source. There are some serious arguments here at HotAir about the source problem (culture, mental illness treatment, etc.), same as with islamic terrorism.
GWB on December 17, 2012 at 1:11 PM
You don’t seem to object.
ernesto on December 17, 2012 at 1:12 PM
Not just NYPD, but the entire federal government.
But it’s a Democrat doing it, so that doesn’t count. Right, ernesto?
Socratease on December 17, 2012 at 1:12 PM
So ernesto do you support even more gun control?
If we’re supposedly falling into your ‘logically inconsistent’ trap then how do you escape it? If we can regulate guns to the point liberals want then why not all the rest of the restrictions on civil liberties you’ve claimed conservatives oppose?
gwelf on December 17, 2012 at 1:16 PM
Here:
GWB on December 17, 2012 at 1:16 PM
And:
GWB on December 17, 2012 at 1:17 PM
Right, cause we’re all racists again and you’re incapable of seeing us as individuals.
I’ve made my case here to you on more than one occasion. You have no reason to be unsure on this issue. But for the record: I support investigating people with ties to terrorist organizations and do not support allowing them to hide behind religion or charity to get away with it. I’ve never supported treating all Muslims as terrorists and have said so here repeatedly.
Esthier on December 17, 2012 at 1:19 PM
Ah! I see your problem. You don’t see the violence inherent in the ME culture, and brought wholesale into the muslim religion as anything more than “freak outbursts”. The rest of us, on the other hand, actually pay attention and understand it is a common thread, not some “freak outburst”.
GWB on December 17, 2012 at 1:21 PM
I see it as a huge women’s rights issue. I started carrying a gun before it was legal because I was sexually attacked in a grocery store parking lot. I finally got my carry permit because of the Beslan attack–I wanted to legally carry a gun on my son’s school grounds. So to me it’s been all about protecting women and children from horrible men (I love men. The men in my life are wonderful, but they can’t be with me all the time to protect me from bad men).
It’s bizarre to me that most feminists are anti-gun rights.
juliesa on December 17, 2012 at 1:30 PM
My problem is that I see Americans differently than I see Pakistanis. American muslims are no more likely to resort to violence than American christians, yet you seem intent on judging Americans by the acts of Saudis and Afghans.
ernesto on December 17, 2012 at 1:31 PM
ernesto on December 17, 2012 at 1:31 PM
Hassan…and Ft. Hood was not armed, due to PC…but you are always a hypocrite.
Schadenfreude on December 17, 2012 at 1:41 PM
Yesterday, libfreeordie posted a link from someone that had tweeted this:
Have you taken a look at what happened to the overall crime rate in the UK after gun bans went into effect? Gun crime increased by 89% between 1998 and 2009. In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold. In eighteen police areas, gun crime at least doubled. The Metropolitan Police now has replaced some of the famously unarmed “Bobbies” with armed patrols on some streets and officers armed with “sub-machine guns” are engaged in routine policing for the first time.
From the BBC in 2001:
From The Telegraph in 2003:
Gun control laws have the perverse effect of increasing crime because they disarm law-abiding citizens, leaving them defenceless against lawbreakers, who aren’t going to be “controlled” by gun control laws.
Resist We Much on December 17, 2012 at 1:44 PM
So it’s OK to separate people based on groups, except when it’s not.
Esthier on December 17, 2012 at 2:02 PM
Don’t like guns? Don’t own one.
Pretty simple.
rockmom on December 17, 2012 at 2:03 PM
I’m sorry, that’s horrible, but it makes perfect sense. How in the world would you ever be able to defend yourself in a situation like that without a gun? Pepper spray could get you and may only make the attacker angry.
Completely agree. That said, I don’t have one because I know how my husband feels, and we’re not really often separate. We’ve even worked together at various jobs over the years.
Me too, but then feminists have never truly seemed all that pro-women to me. They want abortion on demand and want to mainstream dressing slutty and sleeping with whoever they want without stigma… are we sure these organizations aren’t being run by men?
Esthier on December 17, 2012 at 2:08 PM
Don’t like gay marriage, don’t get one. Oh wait…
ernesto on December 17, 2012 at 2:16 PM
Fair enough, but at least gun ownership is a right granted in our Constitution. That we even have a discussion on whether or not we can keep them is already ridiculous.
Esthier on December 17, 2012 at 2:27 PM
Yes, that *is* your problem. The ideology is fundamentally the same in both places. And, your assertion about propensity to resort to violence is questionable. Either way, I’m judging the ideology, not the nationality. If you were to take up a religion that believed kidnapping people and feeding them to sharks was a fundamental tenet – even if none of your fellow religionists in the US had ever traveled to the FL Keys – I would suggest watching *you* too.
GWB on December 17, 2012 at 3:11 PM
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