Maybe it’s time for a refounding of the conservative movement
We’ve recovered before. In the late 1940s, a war-weary nation looked the other way as the Soviet Union occupied Eastern Europe and China went Communist. It was only after the North Korean invasion of the South that the United States, first under Harry Truman and then Dwight Eisenhower, faced up to its responsibilities—but at considerable cost in lives and treasure over the next decades as we fought wars that perhaps could have been avoided and endured a Cold War that needn’t have been as threatening as it was. In the late 1970s, a war-weary nation watched as Khomeini took over Iran and the Sandinistas Nicaragua. This time, the Iranian hostage crisis and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan served as the wake-up call, answered first (to a degree) by Jimmy Carter, then resoundingly by Ronald Reagan.
So perhaps every 30 years America has to go through a moment of retreat and renewal. But a happy outcome isn’t assured. Barack Obama is no Harry Truman. The Republican party has no obvious Reagan—or Ike, for that matter, waiting in the wings.
And the conservative movement—a bulwark of American strength for the last several decades—is in deep disarray. Reading about some conservative organizations and Republican campaigns these days, one is reminded of Eric Hoffer’s remark, “Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” It may be that major parts of American conservatism have become such a racket that a kind of refounding of the movement as a cause is necessary. A reinvigoration of the Republican party also seems desirable, based on a new generation of leaders, perhaps coming—as did Ike and Reagan—from outside the normal channels.
Blowback
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IMHO that is the best conservative plan for the end. Try to include the better Midwest states, you will very much need the food-growing capacity.
There are a couple operating “homeland” groups already…but unfortunately all I’ve ever seen are various religious splinter sects and one outright racist organization.
MelonCollie on December 8, 2012 at 10:53 PM
Plenty of room up here in South Dakota. West of the Missouri River we have some prime ranch pasture, and eastside has a lot of crop land.
gryphon202 on December 8, 2012 at 10:54 PM
By the by folks, I’m a pretty big fan of BilL Whittle’s “Common Sense Resistance” movement. I think that’s more the template for the future than any large-scale organized movement at this point.
gryphon202 on December 8, 2012 at 10:56 PM
Coolio. I’m just hoping to include my homestate of Nebraska…minus a couple cities we’re pretty sensible. Funny how “flyover country” is so rarely liberal.
MelonCollie on December 8, 2012 at 10:57 PM
Jeebus. Gryphon really struck one of MelonCollie’s nerves. All he did was say that any actual honest-to-goodness conservative who shows up is liable to get the treatment that Palin got, and MelonCollie starts raving like a maniac about the Karibou Barbie Kult.
Aitch748 on December 8, 2012 at 10:57 PM
Aside from the maddening pervasiveness of farm subsidies here, Dakota farmers and ranchers are quite a crabby lot who don’t like to be impinged upon. Still a bastion of pioneer spirit.
gryphon202 on December 8, 2012 at 10:58 PM
Denial and truth don’t mesh well. They’re kind of like anti-matter and matter.
gryphon202 on December 8, 2012 at 10:59 PM
So someone has to be a Marxist in order to study and be knowledgable about Marxism? Or someone has to be a N.azi in order to study and be knowledgable about Hitler and the Third Reich? One can’t be a student? I can’t talk about a subject without having to fully embrace the ideas or beliefs of a subject? Or someone, such as myself, couldn’t have once been a conservative and then gradually moved toward libertarian thought? And then the moment they do, all prior knowledge is abandoned and forgotten? Fascinating rationale you have. Your posts say far more about yourself than they do me or anyone else.
Interesting response to a 100% copy and past of a letter written by Rothbard. I guess it didn’t support your little preconceived world view, so instead you had to make a personal attack.
Dante on December 8, 2012 at 10:59 PM
My patience with disingenuousness has its limits; Rothbard’s and yours.
gryphon202 on December 8, 2012 at 11:01 PM
gryphon202 on December 8, 2012 at 10:52 PM
I’m genuinely curious as to the reason you keep harping on about Dante. He’s quite open about his beliefs. If you are against statism and believe in limited government, the next logical ‘steps’ in terms of ideological consistency are libertarianism (something like Hayekian minarchism) and then anarchism (probably anarcho capitalism).
Jefferson himself was incredibly dubious about the constitution, as were the anti-federalists, some of whom were among our best known founders. They predicted that the constitution would inevitably lead to greater centralized power over time. In that respect, if you expect the constitution to act as a limitation on federal power, it appears that the constitution was flawed from its inception.
Firefly_76 on December 8, 2012 at 11:03 PM
Whiny, thin-skinned, and stupid. I suspect you’re a liberal.
The “Karibou Barbie Kult” consists of the dimbulbs who think a half-term governor turned reality star can somehow save our Republic at the 11th hour and 59th minute. And that’s not counting the fact that you’d need a supermajority in the House AND the Senate in order for her not to be stonewalled – conservative she is, but Reagan she is not.
Or reality and Aitch the sockpuppet account.
MelonCollie on December 8, 2012 at 11:06 PM
Let me be really clear here on something: I advocate following the constitution as its framers intended it to be followed. If Dante or anyone else believes that means I am advocating an immoral course of action, there is no way that the chasm between us can be bridged. That disagreement is so fundamental as to not warrant debate. To put it another way, any argument about such an issue can only inevitably devolve into a meaningless, stupid pissing match. I am not going to get a neo-anarchist to change their fundamental view of the inherent immorality of government, and a neo-anarchist will not budge me one single micron towards believing that the Constitution of the United States of America, as written, is anything other than a work of genius written by men of moral soundness and long vision.
Really. We can just leave the disagreement there. There is no practical purpose that can be served by pursuing this argument any further. NONE.
gryphon202 on December 8, 2012 at 11:06 PM
Well, where do you recommend for a warm-blooded Virginian, who is NOT a racist?
Firefly_76 on December 8, 2012 at 11:07 PM
Probably because I’m a libertarian and HATE the MoFos. Maybe, because I would cut the federal government’s budget by 50%, eliminate dozens of the ABC agencies, end SS, Medicare, Medicaid, withdraw from Afghanistan, don’t want to “spread democracy around the world,” would nuke the next abettor of al Qaeda back to the Stone Age, don’t give a bloody fvck about winning the “hearts and minds” of the Muslim world,”
Um, you can go back and read every single one of my posts since I have been at Hot Air and you will find two consistent themes:
1. I have ALWAYS said that “I am not a Conservative, I am not a Republican, I am a libertarian, but I will crawl over broken glass to vote for whomever the Republicans nominate because I want Obama out of office.”
2. I ALWAYS said that “I am NOT voting FOR Romney. I am voting AGAINST Obama.”
3. I ALWAYS said that “I am voting Republican ONLY because it is the SINGULAR, CREDIBLE ALTERNATIVE and no third-party can beat a sitting POTUS with $1 billion.”
4. As a rule, I do not make electoral predictions. I didn’t even predict the 2010 elections.
5. In late October, I broke #4. Go back and read the QOTDs between 12 and 2 AM from ~15 October to 31 October and you will find EXACTLY what I said. Specifically, I said that I never make electoral predictions, but IF I had to guess, I would say that either Obama wins by 1-2 or Romney wins by 5+. Romney was never going to win in a squeaker. I said that, if he was going to win, it would be by a nice margin because it was going to require things breaking for him. Go and find it.
6. If discussing the poll numbers that almost everyone else in America got wrong somehow means that I was “predicting a smashing Romney victory,” then I’m guilty as charged.
Still pining for Palin?
Resist We Much on December 8, 2012 at 11:08 PM
Well that’s one way to beat a retreat, I suppose.
Dante on December 8, 2012 at 11:09 PM
The worship of a piece of paper. Let’s take a look at the Constitution and the Articles of Confederation for comparison’s sake. Well, let’s let Mr. Lew Rockwell do it for us:
Here is a simple comparison of the two organizing documents:
Levying taxes
AoC: Congress could request states to pay taxes
Const.: Congress has right to levy taxes on individuals
Federal courts
No system of federal courts
Court system created to deal with issues between citizens, states
Regulation of trade
No provision to regulate interstate trade
Congress has right to regulate trade between states
Executive
No executive with power. President of U.S. merely presided over Congress
Executive branch headed by President who chooses Cabinet and has checks on power of judiciary and legislature
Amending document
13/13 needed to amend Articles
2/3 of both houses of Congress plus 3/4 of state legislatures or national convention
Representation of states
Each state received 1 vote regardless of size
Upper house (Senate) with 2 votes; lower house (House of Representatives) based on population
Raising an army
Congress could not draft troops, dependent on states to contribute forces
Congress can raise an army to deal with military situations
Interstate commerce
No control of trade between states
Interstate commerce controlled by Congress
Disputes between states
Complicated system of arbitration
Federal court system to handle disputes
Sovereignty
Sovereignty resides in states
Constitution the supreme law of the land
Passing laws
9/13 needed to approve legislation
50%+1 of both houses plus signature of President
Dante on December 8, 2012 at 11:16 PM
Your overwrought flailing tonight is amusing.
F*** yeah. If the GOP wasn’t overrun by such knaves and fools who like letting us think they will roll back government spending and overreach and then never accomplish anything, we probably wouldn’t be pining for the woman at all.
Aitch748 on December 8, 2012 at 11:17 PM
Hence my qualification that the constitution should be followed as its framers intended. Every power grab by the federal government was movement away from what our founders intended. There was a reason that the federal government’s powers were listed, while the states were told what they could not do.
In order to make a good case that the constitution was the problem from the get-go, you’d have to sell me on the idea that we’re following it now, a demonstrably laughable assertion.
gryphon202 on December 8, 2012 at 11:18 PM
He has also been dead for more than a decade so you probably should start referring to him in the past tense.
Just sayin…
Resist We Much on December 8, 2012 at 11:18 PM
Oh, and a link to the article, and a link to the Articles
Dante on December 8, 2012 at 11:19 PM
~~wink, wink~~
Resist We Much on December 8, 2012 at 11:19 PM
Is your worship of the Articles of Confederation really all that different? I mean, really, why are we having this debate? What is it that you are trying to convince me of? To what degree are you able to hope to change my mind?
gryphon202 on December 8, 2012 at 11:20 PM
In a way I really do feel sorry for the Palinistas. They’re trying to cobble together a viable campaign from the ruins of a once-great party the best they know how. Unfortunately, we all saw the result of that in this election. Combined with a liberal-shifting demographic, it equals disaster.
The only faint prayer for a political solution – if there still is one – is to refound. To start from the ground up. The GOP is a bunch of old white RINOs with less spine than a jellyfish.
MelonCollie on December 8, 2012 at 11:21 PM
What did you say about assume earlier? Here is another example of your faulty belief that if someone cites something or quotes someone, then it must mean they fully subscribe to the work or person quoted. What part of I’m an anarcho-capitalist do you not get? My citation of the Articles of Confederation is purely academic to show you that it is superior in many ways to the Constitution that you call a work of genius.
Dante on December 8, 2012 at 11:23 PM
Old and Busted:
New Hotness:
Resist We Much on December 8, 2012 at 11:23 PM
Or one could show how the preceding document was better, by, ohhh, making a few comparisons?
Dante on December 8, 2012 at 11:26 PM
Well +1 to you for admitting that she’s a third-stringer.
Seriously, it really is sad that conservatives have so little left to turn to. Not to mention it bodes ill for our nation when the liberals can just whip up a fresh batch of moonbats while their opponents are scraping bottom.
MelonCollie on December 8, 2012 at 11:26 PM
I can’t help but laugh at the people still bashing Palin, oh what courage you have standing up to the “caribou barbie cult”. I mean, it’s not like she’s been the only Republican that actually generated some excitement in the past 10 years and it’s not like she was the only thing that gave McCain a shot at winning and it’s not like she stayed a loyal soldier for Republicans while McCain and his cronies stabbed her in the back and it’s not like she keeps going out there and fighting the good fight while everyone and their grandmother bashes her…..oh wait, it’s exactly like that. But hey, keep on going after her if it makes you feel like big boys, which i’m sure it does.
clearbluesky on December 8, 2012 at 11:26 PM
Come back when you have something useful to say or a game plan to fight the liberals.
MelonCollie on December 8, 2012 at 11:28 PM
I think i’ll comment whenever i feel like it, thanks for your oh so valuable attention though.
clearbluesky on December 8, 2012 at 11:31 PM
And yet somehow you seem to be able to ignore the problems that came with that same governing document. The trade wars. The land disputes erupting into hot border skirmishes. The utter inability of some states to raise sufficient armies, and the refusal of others to help in that regard. Not to speak of the horrendous confusion over currency and coinage that could not be transported between the 13 colonies for its lack of recognition by each of the other states in most instances.
I’m sorry, but the federalists won the day. They did so by making concessions that may have not been a good idea to make in hindsight, but this debate played out on the national stage hundreds of years ago — and the antifederalists lost.
gryphon202 on December 8, 2012 at 11:31 PM
That doesn’t address the point at all.
Dante on December 8, 2012 at 11:34 PM
FTFY.
Do feel free to read about how the liberals are winning all across the nation, if you actually care about anything but making a fool of yourself on HA.
MelonCollie on December 8, 2012 at 11:35 PM
The woman announced that she would not run. Picking up your toys and going home after that, as if her decision was the fault of everyone else, was juvenile.
Listen, I have NEVER been a Mitt Romney fan. In fact, he was the first Republican candidate in my “Know You Candidate” series (I cut into all of them. I did op-re on Romney, Gingrich, Paul, and Santorum). The title:
Mitt Romney: Flip-Flopping Away, Flip-Flopping Away. You Know The Weaker Your Foundation, The More You’ll Be Flip-Flopping Away
The date: 11 December 2011
The idea that I am some Mittbot is ludicrous; however, I recognised how disastrous an Obama second term would be and voted for the ONLY candidate that had a snowball’s chance in hell of beating him. Throwing away my vote on some protest candidate or staying home in protest was NEVER going to be an option. Sadly, it WAS an option for a lot of people on HA. They either voted for Gary Johnson (like he EVER had a chance….bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!) or stayed home because “Mitt Romney is a communist just like Obama!” (idiots like Steve Angell).
Well, good for them. May they enjoy the next 4 years of Barack Obama.
Resist We Much on December 8, 2012 at 11:36 PM
Your point is simply that you are of the opinion that the constitution is immoral because government is inherently coercive and ergo immoral. I disagree with that. You seem to be thumping your chest for no other reason than to try to prove your moral/intellectual superiority.
Okay….?
gryphon202 on December 8, 2012 at 11:39 PM
Oh look, you have to sink to changing my comments, what a class act you are and just super clever. Enjoy your little Palin hate fest big man, i’m sure that’ll show them libruls.
clearbluesky on December 8, 2012 at 11:41 PM
Oh look you have to stick to whining about Falin McQuitter because you don’t have anything.
Enjoy being the class clown, Gomer Pyle, we’ll all laugh at you including the liberals.
MelonCollie on December 8, 2012 at 11:43 PM
No, I’ll refer you back to 11:23: the point was that the Constitution isn’t the work of genius that you believe it to be.
And my mistake, but that was Wm. Buppert’s comparison chart.
Dante on December 8, 2012 at 11:46 PM
Allrighty then, i’ll enjoy myself and you keep churning out those current culture references like Gomer Pyle, cuz that’s just solid gold right there.
clearbluesky on December 8, 2012 at 11:54 PM
White Flag wusses like Kristol never will get it. Those of his ilk, drama queen Rove, the George Will’s and Peggy Noonans of the World will always resent Beltway outsiders like Palin because she effectively rocked the boat; particularly in the 2010 elections. She earns her own money and buys things with her own money… the brute!
Palin was an effective motivator capable of drawing large crowds and inspiring particularly those of Conservative and Taxed-enough-already leanings which as we now see with milquetoasts Boehner and McConnell meant that Palin went against the grain of establishment GOP. Make no mistake: Boehner and McConnell are career politicians not interested in their elitist little province being invaded by some, horrors!, non-Ivy League Alaskan!
It was obvious to me at the time Boehner was emplaced as Speaker of the House that move was done in opposition to the Tea Party gains and the danger that presented to establishment GOP (the Beltway Fossils, the Hatches, the Lugars, Snowe, Collins, Graham etc.) whose primary goal was and is to remain in DC preferably as the minority party (or someday end up as cushy lobbyists like Lott) so they can devote more time to doing absolutely nothing then acting dramatically incensed only when the cameras are on then slink back to the cocktail party circuit and let the peons get the scraps.
How quickly the ABP fanatics forget how only a couple years ago Palin effectively had Obama’s huge ego clumsily reacting to her. Palin bought a tour bus with her own money so Li’l Obamalini had to drop about two million in taxes each on two buses which are likely mothballed if not, er, distributed to some Chicago cronies. Some may remember how Palin’s plan to visit Minnesota or whichever state had the Obama State Media in a titter when she went off RADAR for awhile the Obama State Media, in typical DNC whorish fashion start pimping the WH narrative that Palin has “quit” (whatever) until she reappeared mentioning “jury duty” which put the lie to not only the Old Media propaganda wing but to Zero’s perennially deceptive attitude itself.
The overall problem with the Palin haters is they suffer the same defective thinking as the (insert whatever other GOP primary candidate name here)-haters which is that they’re too damn busy trying to knock their allies than redirect that energy best aimed at Obungler. Boehner and McConnell had two years to do something with the moment which Palin, in part, and Tea Party Conservatism, in substantial turnout, had given them. Boehner and McConnell completely squandered the advantage and played Beltway politics, as usual. As a result the outcome of 2012 has many similarities to 2006 when Hastert and Frist (and Drama Queen Rove) pretty much felt so anointed as to ignore the GOP base thus getting stomped and Nanzi Pelosi taking the gavel from (where are they now?) Hastert and Dingy Harry taking the gavel from Frist. Palin was instrumental in getting the gavel back away from Nanzi only to
see the tan-obsessed oddity of Boehner dilute any momentum back into Boehner weakly reacting defensively to Obama rather than an Obama weakly reacting defensively to Palin. Even the most rabid of anti-Palin fanatics could notice that… but they won’t because anti-Palin monomania deludes them from a winning strategy which had won 2010, convincingly.
… and anyone fool enough to think the Constitution isn’t a work of genius has over 220 years of evidence of inventiveness, exploration, triumph, health, world leadership and one nation pretty much saving the 20th century World from itself at least three times working against them.
viking01 on December 9, 2012 at 12:13 AM
You’re an idiot.
Solaratov on December 9, 2012 at 12:34 AM
Again, engaging in argument-by-assertion in presenting opinion as fact. I don’t think you’re quite the intellectual heavyweight you try to come across as here.
gryphon202 on December 9, 2012 at 12:38 AM
Now you’re projecting.
Dante on December 9, 2012 at 1:14 AM
Too bad Melon Collie and other Palin haters couldn’t reserve this kind of disdain for Democrats. Mitt might have done better than he did!
Fortunately for Movement Conservatives, I suspect that Palin is going to start building on the ashes of the old, discredited Whig GOP that lost in 2012.
victor82 on December 9, 2012 at 1:27 AM
This was a great thread from a readers perspective.
BoxHead1 on December 9, 2012 at 1:51 AM
No more so than you were. You presented a chart that showed how the AoC and Constitution handled certain areas different. You then claimed it showed that one was more superior than the other. What was you basis of that claim? Your worldview about government. You haven’t proven your worldview is superior to any other worldview. You assume it a-priori.
chemman on December 9, 2012 at 1:52 AM
r’s
BoxHead1 on December 9, 2012 at 1:59 AM
Hate to dash your hopes, but I meant every word.
Stoic Patriot on December 9, 2012 at 7:35 AM
Very well said, viking01.
Anybody who:
(1) continues to call Palin a “quitter” is either an ignoramus of epic proportions regarding the circumstances that led her to step down as Governor (along the lines of the lazy and useful idiots mostly found on the Left who, sans intellectual curiosity, buy into whatever Big Lie meme-of-the-day is spouted without evidentiary facts to demonize and character-assassinate on the cheap) … or flat out disingenuous; and
(2) fails to acknowledge Palin’s charismatic “leadership” (wow — what a freakin’ new concept for we conservatives/libertarians) and instrumental, enthusiastic role (especially in the realm of constant, effective criticism of Obama) building up to and including the 2010 electoral tidal wave is either an ignoramus of epic proportions — see (1) above … or flat out disingenuous … or, as I suspect is likely the case for most: in psychological denial for any number of reasons (my guess? pure, unadulterated envy).
For the latter, it may be wise for them to reflect on the following:
“Evasion is the root of all evil.” — Ayn Rand
ShainS on December 9, 2012 at 7:43 AM
Two hunnert!
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on December 9, 2012 at 8:12 AM
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