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	<title>Comments on: The phony cliff, and the real one</title>
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		<title>By: Kataklysmic</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/12/05/the-phony-cliff-and-the-real-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2209406</link>
		<dc:creator>Kataklysmic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=231477#comment-2209406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;IceCold on December 5, 2012 at 4:44 PM &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I have really been enjoying your contributions lately.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>IceCold on December 5, 2012 at 4:44 PM </p></blockquote>
<p>I have really been enjoying your contributions lately.</p>
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		<title>By: connertown</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/12/05/the-phony-cliff-and-the-real-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2209376</link>
		<dc:creator>connertown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=231477#comment-2209376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[He&#039;s right.

But I think I like having my head in the sand better.
Reality sux.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He&#8217;s right.</p>
<p>But I think I like having my head in the sand better.<br />
Reality sux.</p>
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		<title>By: lexhamfox</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/12/05/the-phony-cliff-and-the-real-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2209338</link>
		<dc:creator>lexhamfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=231477#comment-2209338</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;IceCold on December 5, 2012 at 4:44 PM
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

He&#039;s right about US health care and the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.oecd.org/health/healthpoliciesanddata/oecdhealthdata2012-frequentlyrequesteddata.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;data&lt;/a&gt; illustrates his point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>IceCold on December 5, 2012 at 4:44 PM
</p></blockquote>
<p>He&#8217;s right about US health care and the <a href="http://www.oecd.org/health/healthpoliciesanddata/oecdhealthdata2012-frequentlyrequesteddata.htm" rel="nofollow">data</a> illustrates his point.</p>
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		<title>By: besser tot als rot</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/12/05/the-phony-cliff-and-the-real-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2209327</link>
		<dc:creator>besser tot als rot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 21:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=231477#comment-2209327</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;He also has a great degree of confidence that most Americans can do 3rd grade math.

gwelf on December 5, 2012 at 3:58 PM&lt;/blockquote&gt;

We are living in Idiocracy. Debate winners are judged by who takes the most cheap shots and gets in the most &quot;burns.&quot; That was pretty clear in the VP debate and in debates 2 and 3. I felt like I was watching President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho burn Not Sure and get the &quot;oohs&quot; and &quot;aaahs.&quot; So. Yeah, 3rd grade math is probably beyond the current scope of the electorate. But I think that if it was explained and the ramifications were explained, we could have gotten through to the marginally attached voters (who didn&#039;t like Obama, but couldn&#039;t find a reason to vote for Romney).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>He also has a great degree of confidence that most Americans can do 3rd grade math.</p>
<p>gwelf on December 5, 2012 at 3:58 PM</p></blockquote>
<p>We are living in Idiocracy. Debate winners are judged by who takes the most cheap shots and gets in the most &#8220;burns.&#8221; That was pretty clear in the VP debate and in debates 2 and 3. I felt like I was watching President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho burn Not Sure and get the &#8220;oohs&#8221; and &#8220;aaahs.&#8221; So. Yeah, 3rd grade math is probably beyond the current scope of the electorate. But I think that if it was explained and the ramifications were explained, we could have gotten through to the marginally attached voters (who didn&#8217;t like Obama, but couldn&#8217;t find a reason to vote for Romney).</p>
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		<title>By: besser tot als rot</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/12/05/the-phony-cliff-and-the-real-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2209321</link>
		<dc:creator>besser tot als rot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 21:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=231477#comment-2209321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;For the duration of this pathetic Precedency the left has crowed about less than 2% “growth” in GDP while having borrowed and spent more than 8% of GDP in order to get that “growth”. 

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 5, 2012 at 4:07 PM&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Something else that can be put in the &quot;Things Romney Should Have Said - 2012.&quot; Instead we got the Romney bear hug of Obama on policy (especially in debates 2 and 3), and the &quot;I&#039;m Not Obama&quot; campaign.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>For the duration of this pathetic Precedency the left has crowed about less than 2% “growth” in GDP while having borrowed and spent more than 8% of GDP in order to get that “growth”. </p>
<p>ThePrimordialOrderedPair on December 5, 2012 at 4:07 PM</p></blockquote>
<p>Something else that can be put in the &#8220;Things Romney Should Have Said &#8211; 2012.&#8221; Instead we got the Romney bear hug of Obama on policy (especially in debates 2 and 3), and the &#8220;I&#8217;m Not Obama&#8221; campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: besser tot als rot</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/12/05/the-phony-cliff-and-the-real-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2209315</link>
		<dc:creator>besser tot als rot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 21:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=231477#comment-2209315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This should be filed in the folder of &quot;Things Romney Should Have Said - 2012.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This should be filed in the folder of &#8220;Things Romney Should Have Said &#8211; 2012.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: IceCold</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/12/05/the-phony-cliff-and-the-real-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2209313</link>
		<dc:creator>IceCold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 21:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=231477#comment-2209313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Black beclowns himself a bit when he wanders into his legal and medical comments, by the way.  The countries mentioned have an equivalent medical system?  Hilarious!  And even that obviously false assertion &quot;hides&quot; the gigantic portion of our &quot;medical&quot; bill that is in fact waste directly and solely attributable to over-regulation at the state and federal level, and of course the legal shake-down (which he mentions in the next sentence, but fails to elucidate with details).  Compare the cost curves for non-insured/less regulated sub-sectors like elective cosmetic surgery, veterinary care, or the experience of a few large companies like Safeway who saw tremendous change just by instituting a handful of obvious, familiar mechanisms to tie consumers and prices back together to reintroduce cost discipline.

UK&#039;s system is an orwellian mess (w/out even considering the huge opportunity cost, or what it might be if organized rationally), Canada&#039;s is a pure free-rider phenomenon (medical outcomes greatly lag what they should be, and are only as good as they are because the US is close by and provides a complete safety valve for areas pathetically backwards in Canada - availability of MRIs, a growing array of cancer treatments, and on and on and on).  France&#039;s mixed system survives only because of the mix, not the public part.  And all of them free-ride on our biotech and medical device private sector, in the sense that we are the engine that pulls the train.

The &quot;legal cartel&quot; isn&#039;t anything of the kind, but it is a direct outcome of over-legislation and over-regulation.  The required rule of law in the marketplace to enable prosperity and dynamism could be achieved with a much smaller legal sector - but even here, the political orgins of much of the problem are not &quot;balanced&quot; between various players or parties.  Check the % of total donations to Dem organizations/candidates vs. GOP ones from the trial lawyers.

But who cares?  The level of illiteracy and inability to think rationally - among &quot;educated&quot; Americans of the sort who think NPR and the NYT are actually serious news sources - renders all of this rather academic.  The vestiges of the republic will witness an increasingly chaotic feasting by co-opted rent-seeking &quot;private sector&quot; industries as they attempt to temporarily shelter/gain from the expanding and suffocating state.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Black beclowns himself a bit when he wanders into his legal and medical comments, by the way.  The countries mentioned have an equivalent medical system?  Hilarious!  And even that obviously false assertion &#8220;hides&#8221; the gigantic portion of our &#8220;medical&#8221; bill that is in fact waste directly and solely attributable to over-regulation at the state and federal level, and of course the legal shake-down (which he mentions in the next sentence, but fails to elucidate with details).  Compare the cost curves for non-insured/less regulated sub-sectors like elective cosmetic surgery, veterinary care, or the experience of a few large companies like Safeway who saw tremendous change just by instituting a handful of obvious, familiar mechanisms to tie consumers and prices back together to reintroduce cost discipline.</p>
<p>UK&#8217;s system is an orwellian mess (w/out even considering the huge opportunity cost, or what it might be if organized rationally), Canada&#8217;s is a pure free-rider phenomenon (medical outcomes greatly lag what they should be, and are only as good as they are because the US is close by and provides a complete safety valve for areas pathetically backwards in Canada &#8211; availability of MRIs, a growing array of cancer treatments, and on and on and on).  France&#8217;s mixed system survives only because of the mix, not the public part.  And all of them free-ride on our biotech and medical device private sector, in the sense that we are the engine that pulls the train.</p>
<p>The &#8220;legal cartel&#8221; isn&#8217;t anything of the kind, but it is a direct outcome of over-legislation and over-regulation.  The required rule of law in the marketplace to enable prosperity and dynamism could be achieved with a much smaller legal sector &#8211; but even here, the political orgins of much of the problem are not &#8220;balanced&#8221; between various players or parties.  Check the % of total donations to Dem organizations/candidates vs. GOP ones from the trial lawyers.</p>
<p>But who cares?  The level of illiteracy and inability to think rationally &#8211; among &#8220;educated&#8221; Americans of the sort who think NPR and the NYT are actually serious news sources &#8211; renders all of this rather academic.  The vestiges of the republic will witness an increasingly chaotic feasting by co-opted rent-seeking &#8220;private sector&#8221; industries as they attempt to temporarily shelter/gain from the expanding and suffocating state.</p>
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		<title>By: lexhamfox</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/12/05/the-phony-cliff-and-the-real-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2209288</link>
		<dc:creator>lexhamfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 21:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=231477#comment-2209288</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hot Air left out the money quote which immediately followed:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Ten percent of the economy goes to the legal cartel and 7 percent to overages in medical costs (compared with the costs in such prosperous democracies as Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and the United Kingdom, whose health-care systems are at least as good as the American one): That’s about $2 trillion that goes to these eminent learned professions, beyond what other sophisticated and prosperous democracies spend, proportionately, on the law and medicine. And there is little sign — despite the entertaining embarrassment of some big law firms, who have to short-shrift partners to pay promised starting numbers to recent law-school recruits — of any disposition to do anything about it, or to reform entitlements or get serious about health-care reform. The fiscal-cliff question is a test of public-disgust levels at the inoperability of the political system, but if the cliff is avoided, that is far from a deliverance from the impending doom that has caused the whole world to look upon the U.S. as an economic chronic-care country.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Conrad himself leaves out Wall Street&#039;s skim off the economy which is in proportion to the entrenched service industries he highlighted and that doesn&#039;t even take into the account the costs associated with their failures culminating in the economic collapse. Another massive failure of our professional institutions. Somewhat surprising given his own experience in dealing with them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hot Air left out the money quote which immediately followed:</p>
<blockquote><p>Ten percent of the economy goes to the legal cartel and 7 percent to overages in medical costs (compared with the costs in such prosperous democracies as Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and the United Kingdom, whose health-care systems are at least as good as the American one): That’s about $2 trillion that goes to these eminent learned professions, beyond what other sophisticated and prosperous democracies spend, proportionately, on the law and medicine. And there is little sign — despite the entertaining embarrassment of some big law firms, who have to short-shrift partners to pay promised starting numbers to recent law-school recruits — of any disposition to do anything about it, or to reform entitlements or get serious about health-care reform. The fiscal-cliff question is a test of public-disgust levels at the inoperability of the political system, but if the cliff is avoided, that is far from a deliverance from the impending doom that has caused the whole world to look upon the U.S. as an economic chronic-care country.</p></blockquote>
<p>Conrad himself leaves out Wall Street&#8217;s skim off the economy which is in proportion to the entrenched service industries he highlighted and that doesn&#8217;t even take into the account the costs associated with their failures culminating in the economic collapse. Another massive failure of our professional institutions. Somewhat surprising given his own experience in dealing with them.</p>
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		<title>By: ThePrimordialOrderedPair</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/12/05/the-phony-cliff-and-the-real-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2209286</link>
		<dc:creator>ThePrimordialOrderedPair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 21:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=231477#comment-2209286</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;But this is only three weeks, and applies to a built-in annual budget deficit of $1.5 trillion &lt;/blockquote&gt;

For the duration of this pathetic Precedency the left has crowed about less than 2% &quot;growth&quot; in GDP while having borrowed and spent more than 8% of GDP in order to get that &quot;growth&quot;.  It&#039;s beyond a joke.  And that doesn&#039;t even include the 0% interest rate fake subsidy (that hides about $500 BILLION in annual interest expenses ... though it will be much more when the Fed finally loses control of the debt market).

So, all told this feral government borrows and steals over 11% of GDP annually in order to claim the spectacular miracle of almost 2% GDP growth.  It would be funny if it weren&#039;t so ridiculous.  And yet, they get away with it.

This American Socialist Superstate population is one of the dumbest and most pathetic to have ever walked the face of the Earth.  We will be roasted in future history books, as we well should.  This is insane.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But this is only three weeks, and applies to a built-in annual budget deficit of $1.5 trillion </p></blockquote>
<p>For the duration of this pathetic Precedency the left has crowed about less than 2% &#8220;growth&#8221; in GDP while having borrowed and spent more than 8% of GDP in order to get that &#8220;growth&#8221;.  It&#8217;s beyond a joke.  And that doesn&#8217;t even include the 0% interest rate fake subsidy (that hides about $500 BILLION in annual interest expenses &#8230; though it will be much more when the Fed finally loses control of the debt market).</p>
<p>So, all told this feral government borrows and steals over 11% of GDP annually in order to claim the spectacular miracle of almost 2% GDP growth.  It would be funny if it weren&#8217;t so ridiculous.  And yet, they get away with it.</p>
<p>This American Socialist Superstate population is one of the dumbest and most pathetic to have ever walked the face of the Earth.  We will be roasted in future history books, as we well should.  This is insane.</p>
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		<title>By: DeathtotheSwiss</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/12/05/the-phony-cliff-and-the-real-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2209280</link>
		<dc:creator>DeathtotheSwiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 21:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=231477#comment-2209280</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Imagine if we had allowed Capitalism to do its job instead of meddling with the economy for all these years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Imagine if we had allowed Capitalism to do its job instead of meddling with the economy for all these years.</p>
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