Why hybrid cars are dying
Here’s the theory. See if you agree: Hybrid cars give a boost to fuel economy. They also give the owner the cachet of being a friend of the Earth. Until recently, hybrids allowed access to high-occupancy vehicle lanes at rush hour even when you’re driving solo (in order to jump-start hybrid sales). Most hybrids run silently for a mile or two on battery power; that impressed the neighbors five years ago. But traditional gasoline-engine cars are more efficient than ever, the HOV lane freebie for hybrid cars is going away, and the price premium remains.
There’s also concern that hybrids are costlier to maintain. Never mind that it’s probably not true. To make back the hybrid premium, you may have to drive 100,000 miles. As for cachet, now that some 2.5 million traditional hybrids have been sold in the US since 1999, the exclusivity and wow factors belong to the Leaf, Volt, and their nosebleed counterparts from Tesla and Fisker. Wow factor? Automobile magazine named the electric Tesla S its car of the year.
General Motors says the mainstream hybrid will not be its major focus. Instead, GM “needs to make educated bets on which technologies hold the most potential,” says Mary Barra, senior vice president for global product development. GM’s bets are currently on the ends of the alternative-fuel spectrum: plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles.
Blowback
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Do they think electricity is free?
Blake on December 2, 2012 at 9:37 AM
Obama’s next giveaway. Bank on it.
truth2power on December 2, 2012 at 9:40 AM
Even more importantly, you have to drive that hundred thousand miles ON CITY STREETS. The vast majority of miles are on highways where hybrids are a lot less efficient and, frankly, perform much worse than vehicles with bigger engines.
Maybe in a few years, economical and practical batteries will come along with much greater charge/discharge rates. But until and unless that happens, hybrid vehicles will remain an expensive and counterproductive “solution” to a problem that does not exist — in other words, every liberal’s wet dream.
logis on December 2, 2012 at 9:42 AM
Meanwhile, the most common element in the universe goes untapped.
Odysseus on December 2, 2012 at 9:44 AM
Not only that, the nation’s electric power grid cannot handle ten s of millions of electric cars plugged into it over night every night. Much of it cannot now handle air conditioning demands in the summer without brown-outs.
And imagine how much coal will have to be burned to provide that electricity.
Liberals are morons.
farsighted on December 2, 2012 at 9:54 AM
This article reminds me that I need to schedule that test drive of the H1 that I’ve been eyeballing for a while.
Defenestratus on December 2, 2012 at 9:55 AM
When the power went out from Sandy, I didn’t see anyone with a windmill or solar cells powering their generators.
If you had a Chevy Volt, what did you do when the power went out for 15 days?
The Government is pushing the Chevy Volt. You will be to if you buy one!
Wander on December 2, 2012 at 9:58 AM
Yeah, they think electricity is free. They also think it’s made by burning unicorn farts.
petefrt on December 2, 2012 at 10:04 AM
Yep, electricity coupons will be the new food stamps. Redistribution of wealth via redistribution of energy.
petefrt on December 2, 2012 at 10:08 AM
[quote]If you had a Chevy Volt, what did you do when the power went out for 15 days?[/quote]
You waited in the gas lines like everyone else.
(it does run on dead dinosaurs too you know)
Defenestratus on December 2, 2012 at 10:09 AM
The mixed hybrid with a standard engine and electric motor system, has some advantages over pure electric, in that you aren’t tied to a socket for recharging. Anyone wanting one must look at their typical driving circumstances, their driving habits, driving distance and the kinds of terrain they have to traverse.
That isn’t a simple set of things to think about nor what you are told going in… yet they all must be taken into account. The real niche for a mixed hybrid is commuter vehicle over distances above 20 miles on relatively flat terrain… you can mix in steeper terrain and longer distances and other factors that also work especially with regenerative braking.
Ten years on with a first gen hybrid the question is: was it worth the cost? If I continued to be a commuter to my old job sites, then yes, it would have paid itself back some years ago. As it was it nearly did that in four years… with changed driving habits, less use and such… no. At some point it will have to go and be replaced by a standard gas driven vehicle. Hybrid is niche, pure and simple unless you are a super-miler trying to get every bit of distance as you drive, and that requires large changes in driving habits. Pure electric? That is just nuts and impractical.
ajacksonian on December 2, 2012 at 10:13 AM
The article fails to mention the poor sales of Leaf and Volt. Nissan recently cut their 2012 sales prediction by 50%. Nissan still loses money on every Leaf they sell; there aren’t enough sales to offset the R&D cost to develop this vehicle.
mad scientist on December 2, 2012 at 10:13 AM
Hydrogen is not an energy source, it’s only a way to store energy, and a very inefficient way, per this source.
Before you can use hydrogen as a fuel, you have to expend a lot of energy to separate hydrogen atoms from whatever other atoms they are attached to. That will take more energy than you will get from burning the hydrogen.
ZenDraken on December 2, 2012 at 10:16 AM
have to drive 100,000 miles.And at 40 miles per plug in for the Volt, that’s going to take awhile
Dingbat63 on December 2, 2012 at 10:20 AM
You are correct, however the transfer of that stored energy is much faster than that of a battery.
Thats where plugin vehicles just aren’t practical for a wide swathe of the American motorist public. We like taking road trips in our cars. A car with 100, 200 even 300 mile range just wont cut the mustard if its going to take 6 hours to recharge.
Hydrogen fills up just like gasoline, and it produces water as a by-product – something that can be re-used as well.
Defenestratus on December 2, 2012 at 10:21 AM
un-smart battery development.
Speakup on December 2, 2012 at 10:22 AM
Not what my mechanic says. Basically you have to take them to the dealer and we all know what great bargains dealer’s give you the the repair shop.
I think hybrids will be good and cost effective….one day. That day ain’t here.
Dingbat63 on December 2, 2012 at 10:26 AM
Already exists. In my state we have http://www.operationfuel.org/ which is funded through other people’s electric bill (you can volunteer to pay an extra $x a month) but mostly through state govt. Most if not every state have a version of this.
It’s also illegal to turn off any utilities in the winter, or if the person is poor or disabled or whatnot for lack of payment.
Timin203 on December 2, 2012 at 10:29 AM
The reality is that battery technology has been researched to death over the past 30+ years and, while many impressive gains have been made, I just don’t see batteries getting good enough to make a reasonable electric car. Today’s electric cars are, in fact, not much better than the electric cars sold in 1898-1902.
Outlander on December 2, 2012 at 10:29 AM
Replacing the batteries (certainly the lithium variants) is and will be very expensive and they WILL need to be replaced at some point. When that cost becomes obvious, resale values will drop like a rock.
MechanicalBill on December 2, 2012 at 10:30 AM
Because you can’t make a hybrid sound like a 6.2L pushrod..
Caper29 on December 2, 2012 at 10:45 AM
Unfortunately, the hacks who are ramming them down are throats are not dying at the same rate.
Rixon on December 2, 2012 at 10:46 AM
But we don’t pay the Muslim Brotherhood to get it.
faraway on December 2, 2012 at 10:48 AM
I admit it. I was a dope and bought a Honda Civic. Yes, it does get very good mileage (40 plus), but the extra cost doesn’t justify the savings AND I found out after buying it that if I ever have to replace the battery, that will cost me a lot of moolah!
I’ve learned my lesson.
NavyMustang on December 2, 2012 at 10:48 AM
Ooops.
Battery shortage halts Fisker’s Karma production
“Fisker isn’t the only automaker affected by A123′s troubles. General Motors’ electric version of its new Chevrolet Spark…”
albill on December 2, 2012 at 10:50 AM
Yup, I did mean to write Hybrid in the first post. Sheesh!
NavyMustang on December 2, 2012 at 10:53 AM
40ish mpg? Doesn’t the standard Civic get 35+ mpg already?
CorporatePiggy on December 2, 2012 at 10:57 AM
6.2 Liter? Liter?
Cubic inches, son. Cubic inches.
That would be a 378.
See? Doesn’t it sound better already?
Typhoon on December 2, 2012 at 10:57 AM
427 sounds much better.
Some time ago, American Scientific did an evaluation of carbon footprints for gas / hybrid / electric / hydrogen vehicles. The hybrid had the lowest and hydrogen the highest, thanks to the high energy requirements separating it from other atoms (oxygen, for example) it is made as a by product of oil distillation, but not any real quantities.
As an interesting thought to ponder: water is hydrogen that has been burned, combining H with O. How much hydrogen burned to make our oceans and what did that look like?
I often wonder about the cost of charging a car every night. As we hear, it’s not free, and my electric company (So Cal Edison) charges an exorbanent penalty fee when I use more electricity than my historical average. I imagine plugging in a car everyday is going to put me in that category.
RINOs are people too on December 2, 2012 at 11:34 AM
Pffftt…
426 sounds better still.
Typhoon on December 2, 2012 at 11:42 AM
Here in Ontario, the electrical authority was paying $128+ per MW for large industrials and outside utilities to consume the power that was produced on November 23rd in hour 4. Unfortunately, us lowly customers were still forced to pay 6.3 cents per kW, plus delivery, and customer charges, and legacy debt retirement fees, and feed in Tariff adjustment, and lost adjustment.
Canadian Imperialist Running Dog on December 2, 2012 at 11:43 AM
Is that what the 426 sounds like? Think roar and bye bye when you think Chevy big block.
RINOs are people too on December 2, 2012 at 12:17 PM
Heh. Thread winner.
fitzfong on December 2, 2012 at 12:51 PM
That’s probably good for Tesla to be able to advertise that to people who know nothing about cars (or tax deductions, tax rates, subsidies, stock market gains, etc.), but Automobile is the NYT of the car magazine world. It’s almost bizarre to read. I think they as much as endorsed Obama, and a huge portion of their articles are devoted to how super awesome post-union-bailout GM products are.
An aside, and fwiw, I like cars that sound like boats.
rogerb on December 2, 2012 at 12:55 PM
Yep. Hydrogen won’t do a damned thing to “conserve energy.”
But, like hybrid cars, hydrogen fuel could theoretically help out if liberals all died, and we could have huge amounts of nuclear energy in America.
And also, it might be awesome for defense: imagine a nuclear aircraft carrier that could make fuel for its own jets and tender ships!
logis on December 2, 2012 at 1:06 PM
Yeah, for those long range 30 mile flights.
astonerii on December 2, 2012 at 1:23 PM