More babies, please
In the eternally recurring debates about whether some rival great power will knock the United States off its global perch, there has always been one excellent reason to bet on a second American century: We have more babies than the competition.
It’s a near-universal law that modernity reduces fertility. But compared with the swiftly aging nations of East Asia and Western Europe, the American birthrate has proved consistently resilient, hovering around the level required to keep a population stable or growing over the long run. …
If, that is, our dynamism persists. But that’s no longer a sure thing. American fertility plunged with the stock market in 2008, and it hasn’t recovered. Last week, the Pew Research Center reported that U.S. birthrates hit the lowest rate ever recorded in 2011, with just 63 births per 1,000 women of childbearing age. (The rate was 71 per 1,000 in 1990.) For the first time in recent memory, Americans are having fewer babies than the French or British. …
But deeper forces than the financial crisis may keep American fertility rates depressed. Foreign-born birthrates will probably gradually recover from their current nadir, but with fertility in decline across Mexico and Latin America, it isn’t clear that the United States can continue to rely heavily on immigrant birthrates to help drive population growth.
Blowback
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What a nut. Why don’t you read more carefully. I didn’t CHOOSE to have one child. That was God’s will, or biology, or whatever you want to attribute it to. And I am set for retirement, although I don’t really need money for old age due to my illness. And yes, I am paying for my own insurance and medical bills. You aren’t. Stop slandering people.
juliesa on December 2, 2012 at 10:07 PM
LOL,
Well thought out?
What part of that hysterical rant was well thought out?
LOL Well thought out post. I see it as a hysterical rant by someone deeply disturbed and certainly nothing as she describes herself as.
Social Conservative who thinks that people should not be allowed to persuade others of social things. Just shut the F&CK up! Some social conservative. A christian who thinks that Christians and churches are attacking her! GASP. Well thought out post, LOL
astonerii on December 2, 2012 at 10:08 PM
You did not address a single issue that I presented. Then call me a nut.
If you do not have kids, for what ever reason. WORK AND EARN YOUR OWN RETIREMENT. Not directed specifically at you. That is a GENERAL STATEMENT.
I read you just fine. You just do not seem to have any clue as to what you wrote yourself.
astonerii on December 2, 2012 at 10:12 PM
Guess what? There are also fewer marriageable men then there are women, so women who are left out when the music stops playing shouldn’t have to take your abuse. Maybe you should take it upon yourself to make sure that young men are being raised to live respectable lives instead of lives of crime and/or debauchery.
juliesa on December 2, 2012 at 10:12 PM
Very true. Very very true.
astonerii on December 2, 2012 at 10:14 PM
Looks like the site ate my post, take two.
Hey astonerii – if other productive people not following the Lifescript makes you so honkin’ mad, are you going to give people incentives to follow it besides yell at them?
Like maybe put a hard one-child limit for single moms on welfare?
Maybe hound businesses into not hiring wetbacks and Third-World peasants at every turn to cut labor costs?
How about drop the child tax credit? (hear me out – for childed people it’s “pass the buck back to myself” through the inefficient machine of government. You’ll actually be better off if you just keep your own money in the first place.)
Hey I know – you can get the “no-fault divorce” laws thrown in the trashcan of history where they belong! (hand-wringing spinsters: while this law stands you can shut the hell up about “Peter Pans”.)
Seriously, you want more babies? There ARE ways for you to fix that!
MelonCollie on December 2, 2012 at 10:15 PM
Thanks for that. I understand your points in general, that the kids are paying for the entitlements. It seemed like a personal attack on tiger paw though. Got a rise out of me.
juliesa on December 2, 2012 at 10:18 PM
Social security pisses me off.
She claimed Social Conservative then attacked the bedrocks of it. Got a rise out of me.
astonerii on December 2, 2012 at 10:19 PM
That of course would have nothing to do with the way women are behaving?
Why? So they can provide a more usable resource for you and your sisters?
Men will start showing more interest in marriage when there starts being something of value in it for them.
Until then, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.
sharrukin on December 2, 2012 at 10:19 PM
And unless those women refused sex before marriage unless, at the very least, they were sufficiently convinced that their partner intended to marry them, they’ll get no sympathy from me.
…yeah I know abstinence ’till marriage is the best way, but my generation is just not buying it and our culture has gone insane. At this rate anything is a major improvement.
MelonCollie on December 2, 2012 at 10:20 PM
And until they are reasonably sure they won’t be taken to court and lose their lifemate, most of their possessions, and a good portion of their income even if they have done nothing wrong…
I shocked my parents something awful when I told them I’d ask for a prenuptial before I married. They literally could not understand and mom kept verbally sniping until I basically told her to shut up.
MelonCollie on December 2, 2012 at 10:24 PM
Precisely. Men are told to sign onto a deal where they can be destroyed financially at a whim and they are held responsible for their own behavior, and for her behavior. They will lose everything they have built up til that point, they will lose their children, and they will keep paying for their children.
It’s insane that anyone signs on to marriage.
sharrukin on December 2, 2012 at 10:30 PM
sharrukin on December 2, 2012 at 10:19 PM
Oh boy, here we go again.
I agree that a lot of women are behaving badly these days. but there are fewer men to to begin with, and then more men are in prison than women, which also lowers the ratio of marriageable men to women. this is simple demographics. And the adultery rate is still somewhat higher for men than for women, although women are catching up. That further lowers the ratio of marriageable men to women. Thank God my husband of 24 years is faithful to me. I wouldn’t put up with the humiliation if he weren’t.
It’s simple math. There are a lot of scummy women, but men are fewer in number to start off with, and have a higher crime and adultery rate. I suppose this ratio is altered by the baby boomers though. We have a bubble of aging folks. The men in that demographic can still sire children with younger women–the boomer women can’t.
juliesa on December 2, 2012 at 10:30 PM
http://www.mid-day.com/relationships/2012/sep/170912-sex-and-relationships-women-more-likely-to-cheat-than-men-adultery.htm
Four out of 10 admitted they had been unfaithful compared to just three out of 10 men, the surprising study found.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2145925/Women-beat-men-adultery-stakes-Ladies-2-3-secret-lovers-affair-compared-1-8-blokes.html
Research into the behaviour of 4,000 cheats claims women are more promiscuous, having an average of 2.3 secret lovers compared to a mere 1.8 for men.
And women initiate 2/3rds of the divorces.
sharrukin on December 2, 2012 at 10:37 PM
Or do an estate plan that protects your stuff. My husband and I share everything we have now, but my inheritance of my share of the family land goes straight to our son. My husband is happy with this. It protects our son in the event that I die and my then elderly husband falls prey to some young floozy and her kids, who then usurp his holdings.
juliesa on December 2, 2012 at 10:38 PM
Well yes. My girlfriends who are divorced asked for divorces because their husbands were cheating or otherwise behaving badly. The husbands were perfectly fine with the marriages. It was the wives who were sick of the bad behavior.
juliesa on December 2, 2012 at 10:41 PM
Men are becoming less valuable to women because women have become less valuable to them.
The universities are now pushing something like 130 women for every 100 men. This is their formative years of learning to get along with the opposite sex. At least the ones that women want to marry.
There are a long list of offenses from both sides of the aisle, but I will try to demonstrate more from my own perspective.
Divorce laws make marrying a mine field for men. Alimony, child custody, child support are all devastatingly handled in an anti male way in the family court. I cannot imagine anyone who will disagree with this. Men have little to gain getting married and EVERYTHING to lose.
The way the state handles intrafamilial arguments is atrocious. Raising your voice is enough to get you taken to court, regardless of what the other in the marriage has to say. Just have some neighbor call it in and be honest with the cop, and it is all out of anyone’s hands.
The college/university scene these days makes guys think women are a dime a dozen and that they have no need to settle down. The truth is, some guy in India made a baby at age 97, there is no need to settle down. They will enjoy the fruits unless you offer him something substantive.
The education system is designed to hammer men and elevate women. It is going to cause a large degree of resentment in men. I never lived through it, but I can imagine it, and it would certainly sour me on women. Much as the divorce stories from my uncles soured me on American women.
Social Security, my pet peeve. It subsidizes people to not have children. When you get old, someone else’ children will be paying your bills, paying your medical, handing out your ebt card and so forth. Family and children are a burden, although a blessed one, and with the added incentive of the government replacing children with Social Security, makes not having a family and children a better deal and thus more chosen than otherwise would have happened. You got more time to work, to play, fewer bills, more money and all the security.
Then there are the expectations of women. Do you have a house? Is your car paid off? How many credit cards do you have? Buy me that expensive ring! No, I do not have a house, I expect my wife to help me pick it out, so we are both invested in it! yes, paid off. I have more than I need considering they are all 0d out. No, I will not, I got you an amethyst engagement ring because I like purple, I do not like diamonds, if you do not like it, hand back the ring and have a nice life.
For women, I can understand your dread in the dating scene. Men are boys these days. Not that I am remotely an alpha, I detest alpha, but the boys coming out of school today, they have more lady hormones running through them than the average woman.
astonerii on December 2, 2012 at 10:41 PM
And men ask for divorces because their wives are cheating on them, or going to Occupy Wall Street protests, abandoning her husband and kids, messing around with other guys on camera, and then the husband has to PAY HER $85,000.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/occu_bye_bye_kids_Q5YFd2qFGXYCXsknWVMfcK
Professional protester Stacey Hessler is legally splitting from her hubby, Curtiss, but not before waltzing off with a portfolio that includes cash and his 401(k) retirement fund, filled with stocks and other instruments of American capitalism.
The divorce settlement, filed Oct. 16, awards Occu-Mom the $79,585 fund and a $5,800 bank account. Her total take: $85,385.
But she did respond when a Post reporter asked about a YouTube video showing her making out with another protester during an Occupy “Kiss In” on Valentine’s Day.
“I actually made out with four guys,” she said, laughing wildly.
Curtiss, 43, initiated the divorce in Volusia County, Fla., where the couple raised their family about 25 miles west of Daytona Beach.
If her behavior still means that the man has to pay her cash no matter what she does, then there is no hope for a normal guy.
sharrukin on December 2, 2012 at 10:49 PM
Gotta take your side on this.
My Nephew had some who.e claim him as the father of his child. It was not, but because she said it, they still have him paying for the kid, long after the blood tests came back showing it was impossible for it to be his.
Until there is equality under the law, there are going to be many men not willing to be marriageable.
I got my wife. 17 years younger, filipina, beautiful. Oh, I did not say the romantic aspects? They are there, but private.
astonerii on December 2, 2012 at 10:55 PM
It’s funny how everyone is jumping on what they THINK astonerii is saying, and not really reading what he/she is saying.
Yes, goodness, the dating scene in Dallas was horrid. I was more masculine than most I went on a date with. Finally found my farmer husband…living 15 miles away from my parents in Kansas.
I sometimes wonder if I hadn’t moved away for a big time job if I would have met him sooner.
cptacek on December 2, 2012 at 10:56 PM
+1. Good for you two that you came to an equitable arrangement. If I ever own an estate worth a hang, I’ll have to look into such a thing.
Wow, a post that wasn’t a derpy hatefest…and actually pretty darn impressive! Especially this part:
I once asked an older guy why he had $2000 worth of gaming equipment and no girlfriend in sight: “This was cheaper, and my PS3 doesn’t yell at me for saying hi to a girl I used to go to highschool with.” Freaking ouch.
MelonCollie on December 2, 2012 at 10:57 PM
I should not have called her stupid as my first part of the argument…
astonerii on December 2, 2012 at 10:58 PM
I gotta cut back to 2 mountain dews a day!
astonerii on December 2, 2012 at 10:59 PM
I tend to see my world view as spot on. My personal delivery of said world view. Ok when I am calm.
night everyone.
astonerii on December 2, 2012 at 11:00 PM
They are presumed to be his regardless of who’s they actually are. He pays for his mistakes, her mistakes, and some random guys mistakes. Justice! /s
sharrukin on December 2, 2012 at 11:04 PM
Totally agree.
I also agree with you guys saying that the legal stuff is mostly stacked against the men in divorces, and men in general are being disincentived from marriage.
A lot of it depends on who has the assets. My mom’s first cousin lost the gorgeous ranch she inherited because her nasty husband gambled it away. He was a real jerk in other ways, a mean liar, and when he was killed in a car wreck, I was shocked when I heard all the elders in the family express satisfaction. Our cousin had already divorced him, and while she was able to hold onto the house, she wound up paying him alimony.
Fortunately, she remarried a great guy, and she has three wonderful sons from her first crappy marriage. So she lost the ranch, but she has her house and a super family.
Almost all of my close girlfriends who got divorced remarried great guys who really love them.
You know, life is great, whether one is married or not, or in questionable health, or trying to make sense of this last horrible election. Treasure your friends, any family you have, and every beautiful moment you experience, no matter how trivial it seems.
juliesa on December 2, 2012 at 11:18 PM
I guess this thread is dead, but I’m sorry there are people who are so insecure. A mature, secure couple laughs about that stuff. We tease each other about our former dates. He jokes about the mom in carpool who wears her necklines too low and her skirts too high. We go to a Spurs game, and I expound at length about the old days, when NBA players had these really great thighs on display. Today’s baggy uniforms are more modest and decorous, but you can’t see those awesome thigh muscles they have.
Cleaning up from a steak and wafflefry dinner I cooked for us. It’s been a very pleasant day. Every day is a blessing.
juliesa on December 2, 2012 at 11:44 PM
Get married or not. Have babies or not. The choice is YOURS. The rest is just histrionics. Just don’t care what anyone (family, friends, church, community, society) thinks.
tommy71 on December 3, 2012 at 12:23 AM
At our marriage encounter weekend (where we were one of the oldest couples there) they spent about 2 hours one night talking about the dangers of video games and how the wife needs to be understanding about it (up to a point), and the husband needs to not let his after work life be obsessed with it.
Us “oldsters” looked at each other in disbelief.
cptacek on December 3, 2012 at 12:49 AM
I don’t know if I’ll ever be married, but I know I’ll always be a gamer to some degree. The current generation, raised on the original Nintendo and now having families is dealing with the most difficult of these issues. It was still a niche thing for much of our lives, and the ideas of ‘weekend warriors’ in gaming terms, guys who unwind with an hour of Skyrim after work, dudes that have gone from slaughtering their 15 year old friends in Doom II to pwning their 10 year old kids in CoD – this is all still fairly new stuff but starting to become less so.
The Wii though has brought family gaming into the limelight, and each year brings more women who grew up gaming as girls rather than it being the mostly boys thing it was in the 80s and early 90s, so I think the issue will become less of a roadblock in the future. Gaming is mainstream and here to stay now – the stigma of gamers being anti-social nerds is less of a thing – so it’s mostly just another iteration of the long-standing issue of one dealing with another’s hobbies.
Gingotts on December 3, 2012 at 1:15 AM
Why? Its the same as the guy who spends to much time in the garage/workshop with his hobbies. Every weekend on the golf course. The gal who’s always shopping, every day and not for necessities. Or either spouse who watches hours of tv every night or 9 hours of football on the weekend.
Think of a lot of video gaming as the bowling league of gen-x/y/millenials.
As for marriage, astonerii and sharrukin covered most of my issues. About 5-10 years ago I came across an interesting species of women who were looking for long term relationships/husbands. This was when I was 25-30 and so were most of them. The ones that really boggled my mind and still do were the women who had a kid or two, but said they didn’t want anymore kids but a man to raise a family with. Uhm, okay. Thats fine but don’t expect many takers. If I’m getting married, I want kids, of my own.
oryguncon on December 3, 2012 at 1:45 AM
Exactly. Once people are over the idea of video games being a weird sort of thing… which we should be there now, grannies play Farmville and Wii bowling FFS… the solutions are the same as any other hobby. Understand one’s liberty to enjoy their hobby, as well as the need to limit time and cost within reason and pay attention to “together” stuff… No difference between golf on the big screen or going out on the course there.
Gingotts on December 3, 2012 at 1:54 AM
Ross is leaving out the most important factor, the genenetic component of IQ. The stupid are breeding. The smart ones are having only the children that they can afford.
growl on December 3, 2012 at 2:09 AM
We’ve all seen the first five minutes of Idiocracy.
And yeah, we’ve all lived the first few years of it too…
Gingotts on December 3, 2012 at 2:27 AM
Sorry but I must laugh- I’m a mid-40′s male I work in a building with 300+ women. I see very few of those women I would chose to cast my lot with, by and large its all about “Me, Me ME!”
I’m sorry but it isn’t. Talking with them, they are the shallowest lot of people I have ever met in my life. Their “poo” doesn’t stink and the world revolves around them even if they are utter losers.
Some of the background conversations I hear are astounding, Jerry Springer could make a foutune.
And mind you this is a healthcare facility, one would assume people are here to actually care about the residents…. I do, but clearly I’m from a different generation.
gdonovan on December 3, 2012 at 5:56 AM
TigerPaw, I agree with you. My first wife made a decision not to have children, and some in our church were not shy in there disagreement. It was none of their business. One even claimed to “have a word from God” about it.
Don’t bother arguing with Stoner II. Anyone, which is most everone who diagrees with him is a moron or worse:
Notice he says, “most Americans.”
He is death on anyone drawing Social Security, but thinks getting unemployment money for 50 weeks is OK.
He’s right and everybody’s wrong.
davidk on December 3, 2012 at 6:27 AM
That s/b “my first wife and I.”
davidk on December 3, 2012 at 6:28 AM
Davidkkk,
I did not say that 50 weeks of unemployment is ok. I lay the smack down on you because you argue that you are OWED the money back that you payed in taxes. It just is not so. That attitude says that other people owe you money for which they get no benefit. That makes you their slave owner and you use the force of government to drive your slaves.
See the difference? I am willing to give up all the freebies and will vote for anyone who will get rid of them. You on the other hand feel entitled to the freebies and will vote against anyone promising to get rid of them.
I understand the damage these things cause to our society at large. You just want to keep getting freebies.
astonerii on December 3, 2012 at 9:12 AM
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