Pro-choice Republicans go public
I never believed that Mitt Romney rejected his pro-choice position because of one meeting with doctors and learning what was done to stem cells. Rather, I thought he had one meeting with political consultants who told him he could never get the Republican nomination unless he was pro-life. …
Today, any Republican who believes, as I do, in a strong national defense and fiscal conservatism, and that limited government is consistent with being publicly pro-choice, knows that if she takes the latter position she will get creamed in the primary. …
As a political matter, being pro-life has not helped Republicans. John McCain lost Catholics by nine points. Romney lost the Catholic vote by two points, even after four years of President Obama’s strong pro-choice position and Obamacare forcing certain Catholic entities to cover birth control.
As a results-oriented matter, the pro-life position cannot prevail. In the 39 years since Roe v. Wade, no pro-life president has overturned it and, because that ruling is constitutionally based, no member of Congress can overturn it via legislation. Even Republican-appointed justices would have a difficult time overturning Roe after four decades because of the conservative philosophy of upholding precedent. If Roe were overturned, each state would decide the issue, and, presumably, local politicians would vote their constituents’ position. Many states would approve abortion, so pro-lifers would not attain their goal of outlawing the procedure.
Blowback
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The lines between Republican and Democrat are getting fuzzier all the time.
portlandon on November 30, 2012 at 11:10 AM
Not a matter of hiding. It is about attacking them with their own facts. They live by science, then they shall be beaten by science. The bigger the club, the better. The closer to their heart the pain comes from, the more potent the feeling.
Science proves that a zygote is a complete and full human life. It has every aspect of a human and left to its own, it shall either die of natural causes or be murdered. Thus, artificially ending the life of a human life starting at the zygote (immediately after the sperm and the egg merge) and ending at the natural death is murder.
astonerii on November 30, 2012 at 11:11 AM
See BigGator5′s comment.
lester on November 30, 2012 at 11:12 AM
Hey, lester! Where’s that chaptr and verse from Exodus to back up your garbage?
kingsjester on November 30, 2012 at 11:13 AM
For the umpteenth time… all those who believe pro-choice = pro-abortion are wrong. I am a pro-choice, pretty far-right leaning independent. And I would not ever, ever, ever, advise or counsel anyone who was dealing with an unwanted pregnancy to get an abortion. I would also attempt to persuade every woman I possibly could, to change her mind, if she were seeking an abortion. Does that sound like someone who is pro-abortion?
lynncgb on November 30, 2012 at 11:15 AM
You realize your proving MC’s point – do you not?
Because mankind is inherently bent towards savagery, destruction, & oppressive governments – it follows that a divine or outside influence is necessary for a republic that protects individual rights to be chartered.
22044 on November 30, 2012 at 11:15 AM
This premise depends on how you define beng a Republican. Many Conservatives feel that support for the social conservative positions is part of being a Republican. Obviously people like the author don’t – they are what I consider Libertarian – people who try to redefine the GOP because they don’t have enough of a base to hae their own party. Conservatives are in the same boat – not enough for their own party.
Unfortuately neither those who dismiss the social issues nor those who consider them a priority can win on their own. But for some reason they expect cnservatives to walk away from their principles. Not only are Conservatives supposed to accept abortion but they are supposed to be willing t pay for it.
katiejane on November 30, 2012 at 11:15 AM
lester on November 30, 2012 at 11:12 AM
An eye for an eye…under ancient Hebrew law. You don’t understand the New Covenant, which Christians live under, do you? Of course not.
kingsjester on November 30, 2012 at 11:16 AM
But that’s not what I said, now is it?
We are capable of coming up with laws. What we are NOT capable of doing is simply inventing a better reason for making laws than “because lawlessness sucks”. And inevitably, that isn’t enough to hold a society together.
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
John Adams
Most of those ‘devout’, you thrice-pitiful fool, were devout to a ‘god’ of death and war, or didn’t give a rat’s fanny about their faith. Scripture has been used to hide slaughter many times over.
MelonCollie on November 30, 2012 at 11:17 AM
Libs say that to be “pro-choice” you have to believe that abortion is a choice and that to be “anti-choice” you have to believe that abortion is wrong and shouldn’t be allowed for just any reason.
This implies that libs believe that choice begins at wether or not to get an abortion. Pro-lifers say that they do believe in choice and that choice is wether to have sex. So if the libs believe that choice begins with wether or not to get an abortion, then technically they are pro-rape since they seem not to think that having sex in the first place is a choice. So can we start calling “pro-choice” people “pro-rape”?
DethMetalCookieMonst on November 30, 2012 at 11:18 AM
Delusional at best.
TROLLCOTT!
Mimzey on November 30, 2012 at 11:19 AM
So? How many times was the constitution amended? Clearly, not divine inspiration if it’s been changed so many times. How many European countries and South American countries are dominated (or were dominated) by Judeo-Christian cultures and yet were incapable of producing anything close to the US constitution and its freedoms? Perhaps, just perhaps, the strength of the US constitution lies elsewhere?
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:19 AM
The GOP needs fighters. It’s not about accepting Pro Choice, etc.. It’s about making the case for pro life. No GOP candidate except maybe Palin, Demint and a few others are unabash in their strong views. With that comes scorn from the media, but who cares, remember Reagan was a B actor for the longest time but he stuck to his principle.
Democrats with the help of the liberal media, have gotten away with;
*Christmas becoming happy holiday
*No religious symbols allowed for fear ONE person complains
*Gay marriage is acceptable
*can’t grade students they might get offended
*any criticism of Obama is racist
*raising taxes solves problems
etc. etc.
Like with every issue, republicans need strong principled leaders who aren’t afraid.
Don’t you see that what people are looking for. We are so sick of this liberal dominated slave set.
Danielvito on November 30, 2012 at 11:20 AM
Science has been used far more often to slaughter human life.
astonerii on November 30, 2012 at 11:20 AM
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:19 AM
Explain why, to this day, 78% of Americans, per Gallup, self-identify at Christians.
kingsjester on November 30, 2012 at 11:22 AM
What are you a democrat? Are you seriously going to paper over the history of the Christian faith and the lives it destroyed and snuffed out over various pieces of history? Were the people who did all of simply not ‘real Christians’ despite being at the forefront of their societies?
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:22 AM
Talk about your flawed arguments. The author describes her switch to being pro choice because of a state law that limited a woman’s ability to have a procedure that would prevent pregnancy. Such a law is a clear case of big government interventionism, and makes a good case as to why a woman should have the right to choose her own form of birth control. Unless the author is arguing that abortion is simply a form of birth control, then I don’t see the connection.
HarryBackside on November 30, 2012 at 11:23 AM
The Constitution is not the Bible. You’re deliberately confusing direct divine inspiration with moral men being inspired by their faith.
How many of those countries adopted wholesale the Judeo-Christian cultures and values of the nations that ‘dominated’ theirs? Or for that matter, how many of them were founded by people Judeo-Christian cultures and values?
MelonCollie on November 30, 2012 at 11:23 AM
Explain to this day why 95% of arabs identify as Muslims? Does either statistic prove anything?
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:24 AM
So, the constitution, in its original form, incorporated Christian values wholesale? Is that your assertion?
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:26 AM
This one smells full of bull. Put up or GPS.
22044 on November 30, 2012 at 11:26 AM
YOU are obviously a democrat, and a complete FOOL at that.
Looking for something ‘papered over’? Why don’t you start with Russia – run by atheist monsters who racked up a body count bigger than every misguided act by “Christians” (often only in name) in less than one century?
You’re precious little better than the spoiled sheep who bleat about “Christian Sharia”, but who would be hiding under their beds if they were anything near being actually oppressed…let alone if they had to live under ISLAMIC Sharia.
MelonCollie on November 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM
Murder is considered a sin in the Bible. So is theft. I guess since they are mentioned in the Bible that they shoudl be legal. Otherwise, keeping them illegal means we’re turning into a theocracy.
DethMetalCookieMonst on November 30, 2012 at 11:28 AM
Because they either ARE Muslims or don’t want to risk their lives for being suspected as apostates. It also helps that Muslim ‘outreach’ is and always has been backed by the sword.
If you risked beheading for not identifying as having a certain faith, I can say with certainty that you would at least say you were in public or on a poll.
MelonCollie on November 30, 2012 at 11:30 AM
Is murder illegal because its a sin? Or do you think that just maybe there were some other reasons for outlawing it?
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:31 AM
Sans moral backing, anything is fair game eventually. Anything.
Good gravy man, have you seen how far we’ve degenerated already?
MelonCollie on November 30, 2012 at 11:34 AM
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:24 AM
What my statistics proves, if you weren’t to hate-filled to understand, is what MellonColllie tried to explain to you. Our nation was founded by people who wished to practice Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion. They were not led in their decision-making by an earthly king, but by their love for the heavenly King.
American Christianity is not compromnsed of empty rituals. It is fueled by an intrinsic understanding of where our freedoms come from, and Who gave them to us.It is a legacy of Faith handed down to us, generation through generation.
Just as my faither, who landed on the beaches of Normandy, made sure that I got to Sunday School, sodid I make that opportunity available to my daughter, step-sons, and grandson. I am blessed by the fact that one of those young men is in seminary as I write this.
Shake your fist and try to believe that Divine Providence had nothing to do with the growth of this nation, you will still find that the majority of Americans will not believe you.
kingsjester on November 30, 2012 at 11:35 AM
Who gives a flying F!@# what atheists in Russia did? Does that justify what Christians have done in the past? And to say that they were ‘Christians’ in name only is complete nonsense. These were church and community leaders; heads of state, and everyday common men. They burned people at the stake, tortured them, and waged war in the name of Christ. Thankfully, those days are behind us, but to say that it was just a few bad apples that weren’t real Christians is complete nonsense.
I recognize that there is a difference between today’s Christians and Muslims. That does NOT negate the evil that was perpetrated in the name of Christianity for extended periods of human history.
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:35 AM
No, murder is a sin because it is wrong.
It is also illegal because the purpose of government is to protect life, liberty and property.
Thus, it not only good, but NECESSARY that a state protect life for it to be legitimate. When a Government no longer protects life, it is the right of the people, alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
makattak on November 30, 2012 at 11:35 AM
So, in summary: You christians killed millions of people in the past.
Atheists? Who the hell cares what they did? Besides those were different people than me.
makattak on November 30, 2012 at 11:36 AM
(In case you can’t quite grasp the point, you are saying Christians today must answer for the sins of Christians past, but absolving atheists of the sins of atheists past. Either what happened in the past doesn’t matter for either group or it matters for both.)
makattak on November 30, 2012 at 11:38 AM
There are reasons to not allow people to abort as well.
1. It damages the society by reducing the number of future members of the society, creating a society in decline.
2. It damages the people involved. The woman is forever scarred, and not a single one I know who has done it has ever managed to get rid of the guilt of doing it.
3. It debases the value of humanity, making other poor choices seemingly less destructive than they otherwise would be.
4. It damages marriage. First by getting rid of children who need two parents to mature into beneficial adults. Second by making the husband bitter if it is done against his desire. Finally by making marriage no longer a value in society for raising children, what children?
astonerii on November 30, 2012 at 11:39 AM
Exactly. And to answer this question directly:
Anyone who cares about the evils they committed (which would be a list you could gift-wrap Jupiter with) and/or knows your comparison is BULLSH!T.
When people with your mindset accounted for more murder in one century than “those” people did in the entire history of Earth, just maybe you need to come up with a better example?
MelonCollie on November 30, 2012 at 11:41 AM
And down goes any credibility on this subject you may have ever had.
astonerii on November 30, 2012 at 11:42 AM
Before the ten commandments were written by God, people had no idea that murder and theft were wrong.
Pablo Honey on November 30, 2012 at 11:42 AM
Our nation was founded by people who above all, wanted to be free of tyranny and oppression. If it were a matter of freedom of religion, I sincerely doubt the revolution would have occurred. One of the guiding principals of this nation is the freedom of religion–which, if you look at the ten commandments, is a direct contradiction of Christianity, which forbids other Gods.
You believe that freedom came from God, I believe it came from a few well aimed muskets and the resolve of early Americans. Perhaps those folks were inspired by God, but then, why weren’t the British, most of who shared the same religion?
While I appreciate your father’s service, I do not see what it has to do with this discussion. Interestingly, having a stepson implies divorce (though I apologize if your spouse was widowed in a prior marriage), which for many years was frowned upon by the Christian faith.
You know what grew this nation? Hard work, an absence of government interference, and an abundance of resources.
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:43 AM
I know atheists that are pro-life. I’m pro-life and it has nothign to do with my religion.
DethMetalCookieMonst on November 30, 2012 at 11:43 AM
Before the Supreme Court made it legal, people already knew it was wrong. They still do.
astonerii on November 30, 2012 at 11:44 AM
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:43 AM
Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven.
kingsjester on November 30, 2012 at 11:45 AM
If his whining and completely idiotic comparisons hadn’t already revealed him as an utter imbecile, this would:
Neither Communism in particular or totalitarianism in general is ‘behind us’. This is obvious with even a cursory examination of where liberal beliefs are taking us, much less to anyone who knows anything about history.
MelonCollie on November 30, 2012 at 11:45 AM
Wow. Are you really stupid or being farcical?
22044 on November 30, 2012 at 11:45 AM
Pablo Honey on November 30, 2012 at 11:46 AM
What mindset is that? Freedom loving, small government, let me live my life the way I see fit and you live yours mindset? My point regarding Russia is that it is not a counterargument. If you accept the premise that Christians did horrible things in the name of God at some point in history, you do not negate that by pointing out that atheists have done equally horrible things. At best, it shows that humans, irrespective of faith, are capable of being horrible.
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:46 AM
If brains were bees there’d be no honey betwixt your ears.
MelonCollie on November 30, 2012 at 11:47 AM
kkaneff79 is no longer interested in useful dialogue, as he’s now just braying pointless falsehoods.
22044 on November 30, 2012 at 11:47 AM
Apart from a transcendent God, what would make those things objectively “wrong”? Big fish eat little fish.
tommyboy on November 30, 2012 at 11:48 AM
22044 on November 30, 2012 at 11:47 AM
Yep.
kingsjester on November 30, 2012 at 11:48 AM
Beware. Moral relativism does not an honest argument make. The Crusades were a defensive reaction to Muslim hostility. Instances of burning witches at the stake occurred before the Enlightenment. Instances of forced conversion have been exceedingly rare because, and I stress, it is not written or extolled in Christian doctrine to convert people at the point of a sword.
What moral relativists who are critical of Christianity fail to acknowledge is that hospitals and caring for the sick and dying were a uniquely Christian invention, as was the ideal that all men and women were equal under God.
John the Libertarian on November 30, 2012 at 11:48 AM
Are you that dense? In referring to ‘those days are behind us’, I was talking about the good old days when Christianity was responsible for misery and death to countless innocent people. Those days are well behind us.
kkaneff79 on November 30, 2012 at 11:48 AM
Not only are you a fool and a troll, you’re a liar as well.
MelonCollie on November 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM
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