Americans’ 401(k) plans: An untapped source for tax revenue?
As Washington debates what to do about the fiscal cliff that it foolishly created, many potential sources of new revenue will be thrown on the table. One of them is likely to be 401(k) plans. …
But many in Washington see our investment accounts not as the expressions of well-planned, disciplined decisions but as untapped reservoirs of wealth they can drain to fix the problems that they caused.
The tax protection that 401(k)s have now can be wiped out by grasping politicians who refuse to do what’s right, which is to severely cut spending. …
President Obama’s National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, for instance, proposed lowering the cap on the amount workers could place in their 401(k)s without incurring taxes.









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I agree with some of your points, but it would be harmful to wildlife conservation, which depends partly on large donations of conservation easements, the kind of gift that inly large landowners can give. Many of these landowners are not extremely wealthy in cash, but want to keep their land together for future generations. That conservation tool will pretty much go away if the charitable deduction goes away. So I would think that liberals would want to keep it, if only for environmental reasons.
juliesa on November 30, 2012 at 2:05 PM
That’s because he doesn’t give.
jawkneemusic on November 30, 2012 at 2:09 PM
When you take a tax deduction for a charitable contribution you are being subsidized as surely as if someone wrote you a check.
Not worried about my 401k at this point, but as long juliesa brought it not the conversation, I had a comment.
urban elitist on November 30, 2012 at 2:10 PM
Your guys are coming after our private property Urbanelitist and you will not be exempt.
jawkneemusic on November 30, 2012 at 2:11 PM
Banana Fucking Republic! Those are the countries who steal their citizens savings. That is what we are becoming.
Shtetl G on November 30, 2012 at 2:16 PM
You have one professor at a proudly radical school. Hardly a groundswell.
urban elitist on November 30, 2012 at 2:17 PM
This is not IBD hysteria. A professor from the New School, Teresa Ghilarducci, proposed this plan before Congressman George Miller’s (D-CA) HELP committee in 2008.
Charlemagne on November 30, 2012 at 2:18 PM
Who else graduated from “proudly radical” Columbia?
Kungfoochimp on November 30, 2012 at 2:20 PM
I doubt that the
Democratssocialists could ever get legislation passed that threatens our 401ks but I guarantee you that many if not most of them would like to. It plays perfectly into their class warfare and envy rhetoric.Charlemagne on November 30, 2012 at 2:23 PM
Yeah… IOW, screw those needy people who benefit from all of the voluntary charitable giving that will dry up. It will give big brother government more tax revenue to spend. So send them to the government social services offices instead. Just leave my 401k alone.
The flaw there is that the additional revenue is supposed to cut the deficit and not fund new spending, right?
I guess those poor people who benefited from the voluntary charitable giving that will dry up are just sh!t-out-of-luck. Small price to pay if it means the government leaves his 401k alone.
farsighted on November 30, 2012 at 2:23 PM
What do charities have to do with 401Ks?
Schadenfreude on November 30, 2012 at 2:29 PM
Urbanelitist thinks like the professor from the “proud racial” school. She thinks our money belongs to the government first and they merely decide what we are allowed to keep.
Hey Urban, screw you!
jawkneemusic on November 30, 2012 at 2:30 PM
No, no it’s not as if someone wrote me a check. Any deduction I take is decreasing the amount of MY money that the government takes from me. It’s MY money to begin with, ‘allowing’ me to keep MY money isn’t any more a subsidy than allowing me to keep MY kidney is a transplant.
StompUDead on November 30, 2012 at 2:31 PM
If urban elitist has a 401(k), it proves that he’s a liar and a tax cheat who isn’t paying his “fair share”.
But then again, we already knew that. Urban elitist supports and endorses tax cheats. Indeed, urban elitist actually works for this tax cheat and welfare fraud.
Urban elitist also works for and endorses this tax fraud:
And for these tax frauds as well.
Of course, urban elitist has already admitted that he and his “wife” are on food stamps illegally, so it’s no surprise that they’re also cheating on their taxes like their owners.
northdallasthirty on November 30, 2012 at 2:31 PM
In a thread about taxing 401Ks urban troll started talking about eliminating the tax deduction for charitable giving. It seemed a little concerned about its 401k, enough to start researching how serious this proposal might be.
farsighted on November 30, 2012 at 2:32 PM
According to the link, she’s at The New School. Many if not most of my friends have 401ks that they’re counting on. And, given that our “class warfare” – as you childishly put it — is aimed at he relatively small 1 percent, we recognize the importance of 401 k plans to the middle class.
And, finally,how come all the sudden farsighted is eager to subsidize charities that are run so poorly that no one will donate to them without a tax deduction?
urban elitist on November 30, 2012 at 2:32 PM
The problem you have to recognize, StompUDead, is that urban elitist doesn’t actually pay taxes; thus, whenever he gets a check from the government, he IS being subsidized. He’s getting more out than he paid in. The government is literally writing him a check for doing nothing.
His admitting that he receives more in refunds than he pays in taxes demonstrates the point. Obama supporters are moochers and looters who need to have their taxes hiked so that they are actually paying something.
And after all, urban elitist says that hiking taxes will not affect the economy, so let it be proven.
northdallasthirty on November 30, 2012 at 2:34 PM
This money-is-the-government’s-first nonsense again? We’ve had this conversation at least three times before.
That you don’t (won’t?) learn even basic points from multiple people and discussions is extremely bizarre.
It really is a religious stance more than anything, isn’t it? Faith-based economics.
rogerb on November 30, 2012 at 2:35 PM
Maybe divide it a different way: citizens v bureaucrats…
affenhauer on November 30, 2012 at 2:35 PM
Mark Levin interviews the commie
Kungfoochimp on November 30, 2012 at 2:37 PM
That’s exactly what socialists think. Socialists think all income is collectively earned and all wealth is really collectively owned. Personal ownership is really an illusion, a privilege granted by the government.
It’s the job of a socialist government to distribute the collectively earned income and wealth “fairly”. Government ultimately decides and is the final arbiter of who gets what, in the interest of “social justice” and economic equality.
farsighted on November 30, 2012 at 2:37 PM
And yet you’re still planning on confiscating them anyway.
Your Obama Party screams and rants that 401(k) and tax-advantaged retirement plans are giveaways to the rich, and that anyone who takes advantage of them is an unpatriotic tax cheat.
So you admit that you and all of your “friends” are unpatriotic tax cheats.
So you acknowledge that Obama Party organizations like Media Matters are run poorly, since they have to entice people with tax deductions?
This is why we have to Let It Burn. Watching the desperate liars like urban elitist get smoked by their idiot Marxist rulers that they put into power will be made even sweeter by the fact that they are literally going to starve. Urban elitist and his worthless “wife” have no marketable skills; they just collect government checks.
northdallasthirty on November 30, 2012 at 2:38 PM
It’s funny watching the desperate shills like urban elitist who aren’t able to earn money themselves try to get it through the Obama Party.
They really do hate producers, don’t they? We shame them every day. We work, we have valuable skills, and people will pay us; meanwhile, they wallow in OWS filth, whining about how employers won’t pay people with transgender studies degrees who show up three hours late and hungover, then have to leave by 2 to get to the pot dispensary.
northdallasthirty on November 30, 2012 at 2:41 PM
A few years ago I started tracking my company’s sales as related to the stock market. The trend closely mirrors market. My customers are middle and upper-middle class and they pay a lot of attention to their 401k statements. If they get their monthly statement and see it decrease by 15 grand, they’re sure as heck going to put off a purchase even though their disposable income has not changed a penny.
There are 50 million 401ks in this country. Those accounts are often a family resource, so they are tied to more than 50 million people. That’s a lot of people to piss off and I do think they’ll be paying attention because it directly affects them. This is not some abstract tax on millionaires. It’s pulling money out of the pockets of the middle class.
ReaganWasRight on November 30, 2012 at 2:42 PM
Ahhhh, gotcha. I didn’t realize I was conversating with someone who perpetually rides the gravy train.
StompUDead on November 30, 2012 at 2:45 PM
The concept that the government owns 100% of everyone’s labor (in the physical form: money), and then they “allow” people to keep it, is very sick. Very anti-American.
visions on November 30, 2012 at 2:46 PM
I, by the, never admitted to getting more refunds than I’ve paid in taxes, because it is t true. And I’ve never received government cash benefits at all.
The New School defines itself as being radical. That I use the term”proudly” does not mean I support every or any theory that one of its professors spouts.
If your taxes are reduced because of your chatitable giving, your charitable giving is by definition being subsidized.
To be clear, in this argument I am argui g for people to be able to keep the money the have earned a d saved in their retirement accounts, while many embracing government subsidies designed to influence your spending patterns in the direction of nonprofit organizations.
urban elitist on November 30, 2012 at 2:46 PM
Bizarre but ordinary and typical.
It’s what arrogant smug superior trolls always do. They are impervious to reason, facts, and reality. See Dunning–Kruger effect.
farsighted on November 30, 2012 at 2:48 PM
I believe the term is “slavery”.
Kungfoochimp on November 30, 2012 at 2:48 PM
I love you.
DrMagnolias on November 30, 2012 at 2:55 PM
You must be pretty happy with the Obama era the, Reaganwasright, because 401 k s indexed to the Dow and S&P have had double digit growths d dry year since Obama took office
urban elitist on November 30, 2012 at 2:57 PM
The takers outnumber the makers…hide your stuff!
Dollayo on November 30, 2012 at 3:05 PM
No, by definition, my charitable giving is not being subsidized.
sub·si·dy/ˈsəbsidē/
Noun:
1.A sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service…
2.A sum of money granted to support an arts organization or other undertaking held to be in the public interest.
The government isn’t giving or ‘granting’ me any money to pay for that charitable donation. They’re not taking someone else’s tax money to help me pay for it. I’m paying for it with MY money. Money that until I file my tax paperwork belongs to me ALONE. There is no claim to the money I earn until I release it to the government.
StompUDead on November 30, 2012 at 3:06 PM
This will happen, and still the brave Docker wearing conservative patriots will sit on their collective asses and whine on a blog about it instead of marching in the streets.
I don’t understand you guys…if you a thug breaks into your house you would shoot on site, but if its some thug from the pig government you just shake your head and bend over.
ClassicCon on November 30, 2012 at 3:06 PM
Let’s start by disallowing people to write off contributions to any school endowment fund over $500,000,000.
cptacek on November 30, 2012 at 3:08 PM
i’m going to have to agree with urban here. The tax code is pernicious and leads to loads of unintended consequences.
Charity is one example…i agree. Home mortgage deductions have done lots of damage…the joys of home ownership are now being played out…and that include labor mobility. A large percentage of people are better off renting…there’s nothing immoral about renting…(unless you are a marxist and hate the rentier class)
Not-for-profit status is often a scam. And yeah, that included a lot of universities. And can we talk about Churches…and freedom of worship…better to be free than to be tied to the government.
Tax deductions hide the true cost of government, shifting to someone else. College deductions? That’s working out real well.
Whenever a bright bulb in DC has a deduction for someone (his business buddy or your family) he is buying your vote.
r keller on November 30, 2012 at 3:10 PM
You should probably consider abandoning this thread soon. The more you post the more you prove you have little to no understanding of finances, taxes, or stock market gains:
rogerb on November 30, 2012 at 3:10 PM
You’ll have to fight Ms LadyStomp for it.
StompUDead on November 30, 2012 at 3:11 PM
errr *Mrs*
StompUDead on November 30, 2012 at 3:12 PM
Run so poorly as compared to what…your precious pig government? The beacon of efficiency? The one you wanted funded by your fellow citizens at all costs. Man your I feel sorry for your son.
ClassicCon on November 30, 2012 at 3:12 PM
My son has a good job lined up starting the week his finals end and a cute girlfriend. He’s graduating debt free thanks to dad and is in good health. Your faux sympathy is unnecessary.
When the government cuts your tax bill, it is the equivalent of a cash grant and hence a subsidy.
The market crash, Roger, was a function of the Bush years, and so not recorded on the Obama leger, which — as far as market performance is concerned — is spectacular.
urban elitist on November 30, 2012 at 3:19 PM
Again NO! It’s not a subsidy because it was never their money to start with. Your problem is you fail to understand that very simple point. Your starting assumption is incorrect so every one of your conclusions derived from that assumption is, by extension, incorrect.
My tax bill, if I pay ANYTHING > $0.00 to the government is me subsidizing the government. If my tax bill is lower because of a deduction, and I’m still paying a + monetary value to the government, it’s still not a subsidy because that money began and ended as mine. It never belonged to the government to grant back to me.
StompUDead on November 30, 2012 at 3:29 PM
Fixed for timeliness.
Amazing.
rogerb on November 30, 2012 at 3:35 PM
I love you like a brother. A snappy, pithy brother.
DrMagnolias on November 30, 2012 at 3:38 PM
WTF????
Absolutely. Alas, liberals have no common sense and they actually believe everything they’ve been told by the left.
darwin on November 30, 2012 at 3:43 PM
well, now you’ve jumped the shark. No one except low info voters actually believes that.
What exactly about the “bush years”????? This is totally seriousness. I mean, obama does actually believe this…he just says to get his base chanting his name..(hey, urban, have you ever been at one of those things and chanted O.ba.ma, O.ba.ma….?
i always wondered if it was really cool…kind of like ‘Ommmmmmmmmmm’ in a big group of people
r keller on November 30, 2012 at 3:44 PM
*Hat Tip*
StompUDead on November 30, 2012 at 3:46 PM
The minute they tap my 401k, I will no longer have any reason to abide by the rules. Even cratering the stock market a decade ago, I still had some hope it might let me live for a year or two, free of constraints. Going Galt gets closer and closer…….
GWB on November 30, 2012 at 4:47 PM
More info here and informative comments as well:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?382585-Warning-Obama-Confiscates-IRA-s-401k-s-New-Senate-Bill-Nationalizes-IRA-s
This site also:
http://www.nationalseniorscouncil.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89%3Aobama-begins-push-for-new-national-retirement-system&catid=34%3Asocial-security&Itemid=62
bluefox on November 30, 2012 at 4:48 PM
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