Abelard on November 28, 2012 at 9:51 AM

The peacetime suicides I know of, the leadership was dismissed from service, from the squad leader, to the Battalion Commander.
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The reason to prosecute it to prevent others who may be teetering from doing the same, and so that the military can remove the person from the situation and the service. Brutal, but we just don’t have the people or the ability to deal with every soldier’s personal problems.
Besides (as in one case I encountered) what do you do with a guy who tried to kill himself during lunch in the middle of the busiest road on post because his transvestite stripper girlfriend has dumped him?

These ceremonies were never held for soldiers who had committed suicide. They couldn’t.

Let them prove before a tribunal that they didn’t have their heads up their fannies.

Abelard on November 28, 2012 at 9:51 AM

There is a fine line we have walked trying to maintain discipline and at the same time be wary of soldiers under extreme duress during the war. I can tell you that particular NCO could not have been punished any worse than what he is living with until this day.

He has a story too. He was responsible for maintaining an entire brigade of rolling stock that operated outside the compound. He was also under great pressure to support the ground unit assigned to our aviation brigade with dependable vehicle that squared off frequently with Taliban and HIG ambushes and IEDs. In his own way he preserved more lives than he can begin to understand and yet he lives with a soldiers suicide under his belt.

I have not worked with callous commands that would look at the chance of any of these men doing this as some calulated risk they would take to keep people in theater to support the mission. It is just harder than you can ever imagine to observe the daily emotional grind of men and women deployed and ID one and say, oh yeah, him.

A suicide may well represent a failure of the chain of command. Instead of blaming the service member, perhaps the whole chain should be court martialed for failure to do their jobs.

Let them prove before a tribunal that they didn’t have their heads up their fannies.

Abelard on November 28, 2012 at 9:51 AM

This has been said by several people about the Ft. Hood. shooting.

The Major was promoted despite poor performance, was markedly anti-social, gave a pro-jihad lecture at a psychology conference, etc. And he had told people he would not fight fellow Muslims. After the event, fellow soldiers said he definitely vibed hinky but they didn’t want to bring it up for fear of being labelled racist.

It appears there were a ton of missed signs but don’t expect to see anyone else court martialled for that unfortunate piece of workplace violence.

Pentagon wonders: Should we prosecute troops who attempt suicide?

Only if you want to drive them straight into the arms of a second attempt.

One soldier was a model troop in garrison at Ft. Bragg. 07 was his first deployment. After deploying, his co-workers and roommate started complaining that he had quit taking care of himself. Unkempt, unclean portion of his quarters and literally stopped personal hygiene. Bad breath. But he worked like a madman in his job in the motor pool. Rather than IDing the warning signs of pre-suicide demeanor, he was counseled by an NCO that he was pretty close to, to improve his personal care. He was ordered to take a morning of work and clean his billet, clean himself and then make an appointment for a dentist at Craig Hospital. He went to his quarters. Cleaned it. And then shot himself in the head with his M16.

A suicide may well represent a failure of the chain of command. Instead of blaming the service member, perhaps the whole chain should be court martialed for failure to do their jobs.

Let them prove before a tribunal that they didn’t have their heads up their fannies.

This is stupid on every level.

Someone mentioned the problem to the Wing Commander, who dismissively said “We don’t need those weak sisters.”

That’s the real level of concern senior officers have for the troops.

PersonFromPorlock on November 28, 2012 at 9:24 AM

I bet that Commander would be appalled at the idea of having his budget cut even though those “weak sisters” aren’t needed.