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Timothy Dalyrmple

Is it time for evangelicals to stop opposing gay marriage?

[T]he question at hand is not whether we should abandon the historical Christian teaching on marriage. The question is whether we should contend for laws and regulations that give this vision of marriage the sanction of government. And to make one more distinction: the question is not whether Christians have the right to promote their views, just like everyone else does, and to support or oppose laws on any grounds they wish, including religious grounds. There’s nothing categorically wrong with supporting laws and politicians who recognize and affirm what marriage actually is, even if your view of marriage is religiously informed. The question, rather, is whether it is still wise to press for American law to recognize only heterosexual unions.

It is, in other words, a question of prudence. Granted, we should continue to profess the truth as best we understand it. But are we so losing the culture on this issue that continuing to fight against same-sex marriage legally will so harm our witness, and thus harm our broader mission and our most important purposes, that the time has arrived to abandon the fight over American law? Is it now the case, or could it ever be the case, that Christian opposition to same-sex marriage laws would become such a massive obstacle to our mission that it’s no longer worth it?

I have to confess: I’m not confident that this fight is worth the cost. Amongst the overlapping circles of the young, the religiously unaffiliated, and cultural elites, much of the animus against Christians today derives (or at least claims to derive) from Christian “bigotry” against gays. We are told repeatedly that it’s “hateful” to “deny gays equality” (what we would call “insisting on the actual definition of marriage”). It strains countless friendships, comes between countless children and their parents, and erects altogether a monstrous hurdle for many people who might otherwise be open to hearing the gospel.

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Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5

You have got to love this Blink character.

jake-the-goose on November 28, 2012 at 1:35 PM

I do love him.

He’s shown you and your ilk up as the hypocrites you are.

Rebar on November 28, 2012 at 1:39 PM

Blink, you can’t tolerate evangelicals. You’re a bigot.

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 1:43 PM

Frank Enstine on November 28, 2012 at 1:35 PM

From above…

Definition of BIGOT
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

So, can a religious belief based on the plain language of the bible be one’s own opinion or a prejudice?

I for one am going to go out on a limb and say that it is not either. Can anyone say otherwise? One, it is the written word of our God. Two it requires that we judge in advance of knowing the the outcome, which I think people are not doing, as the fruits of gay relationships have been reviewed and found wanting from the beginning of time. That is not a prejudice, but a validation of a fact.

Can one argue that these biblical arguments are just opinions of the original authors? Sure, you could argue that. Then again, the far stronger argument is that these authors were well informed and had good reason to say that these activities were immoral. They were immoral because the outcomes of their practice were destructive to the prosperity of the society and the individuals.

You do not even need to read the bible to come to this same conclusion. All you have to do is look at what gay relationships have done to the individuals and the society around them. You will still not be a bigot for not approving of gay marriage.

astonerii on November 28, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Poor blink…just got pawned.

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 1:49 PM

Regardless of how you feel about marriage it’s irrational for you to claim that a 9 year old doesn’t understand the concept of consequences.

blink on November 28, 2012 at 1:50 PM

If they did, then they would not continue to require discipline from their parents.

My 17 month old understands consequences to some tiny degree. WHen she is up high, she is very slow and deliberate with her actions. She has already fallen and knows the consequences of that action.

But she does not have enough experience in life to understand the consequences of most actions. She does not understand that standing in a road way endangers her, and the activity of learning that lesson would be deadly for her. At 9 years old, a girl or boy would not understand the concept of “for life” as they have not lived enough of life at that point to understand the true meaning of 70 years living with the same single person, particularly one that is older and for the first many years will wield significant power of them through nothing more than experience and ill used wisdom.

astonerii on November 28, 2012 at 1:54 PM

Many bigots like blink don’t think that they’re bigots. Lol

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 1:55 PM

Ofcourse you won’t think I’m bright. Resentment is obvious. The fact is that you’re the one using the words ‘bigoted’ and ‘bigot’. I just turned that back on yourself. Lol

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 2:09 PM

Problem being, that most people here, with the exception of the pro gay marriage parade, seem to be knowledgeable about what it means to be gay, what the detrimental effects of embracing them means for society at large.

How convenient for you. Only the people that are against gay marriage understand what it means to be gay? Are you kidding me?

The pro gay marriage people have not confronted the one thing for which they should. For what reason has gay relationships throughout history been frowned upon and pushed underground to minimize?

astonerii on November 28, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Because there are more straight folk?

mskelly on November 28, 2012 at 2:09 PM

Yep, I feel sorry for you too, blink. You put yourself on a pedestal, but don’t realise that you’re a bigot.

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 2:17 PM

Err… muslems most emphatically do NOT agree, since their “perfect human, the best role model for life” mohammad did in fact marry a SEVEN year old and consummated that marriage when she was nine.

And there’s close to two billion of those folks. – Rebar on November 28, 2012 at 1:33 PM

Religious fanatics and beliefs come in all stripes, even Christians. Historians can’t begin to count the number of wars or the people killed just between Christians who believed in different interpretations of the Bible. I believe in all loving God who accepts homosexuals for who they are, part of his Creation. If that makes me a non Christian in your eyes or others, so be it. When I do die, which I most certainly will, perhaps God will let me know if I am right or not.

SC.Charlie on November 28, 2012 at 2:20 PM

I like what Ed, AP, MKH, and Erika have to say, but some commenters here are sadly deficient in thinking. You (and I) should read the comments on the Patheos site on this topic and strive to rival them in quality of thought.

thuja on November 28, 2012 at 2:23 PM

Oh, He most definitely will, SC Charlie.

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 2:24 PM

SC.Charlie on November 28, 2012 at 2:20 PM

You are not a “homosexual”, in that you are a human being – who happens to engage in homosexual behavior. There is no “gay gene”, no one is born a homosexual.

Behavior which Christians, and most other major religions both today and in the past, is considered sinful.

Rebar on November 28, 2012 at 2:24 PM

Yep, I feel sorry for you too, blink. You put yourself on a pedestal, but don’t realise that you’re a bigot. – tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 2:17 PM

And, of course tommy71 you are without sin and hold no views that might deemed to be bigotry of any kind.

SC.Charlie on November 28, 2012 at 2:25 PM

You are not a “homosexual”, in that you are a human being – who happens to engage in homosexual behavior. There is no “gay gene”, no one is born a homosexual.

Behavior which Christians, and most other major religions both today and in the past, is considered sinful. – Rebar on November 28, 2012 at 2:24 PM

Would it make any difference to you, if a gay gene were discovered? Your assumption that no one is born homosexual or for some unknown reason to become homosexual is an assumption that you hold and of which you have no proof. It is your belief.

SC.Charlie on November 28, 2012 at 2:31 PM

SC Charlie, a bigot is just an intolerant person. That way, everybody is a bigot. I can’t tolerate murderers, child-molesters etc. The same way, you can’t tolerate some people too. So no, I’m not without sin. But people who come here and label us bigots, as if it is a high and mighty crime, are hypocrites. In some way or another, you too are a bigot. Period.

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 2:32 PM

‘Being smarter than you doesn’t put me on a pedestal’. Dude/dudette, just read your own words. You’re pathetically delusional.

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 2:36 PM

No comment on this, thuja?

blink on November 28, 2012 at 2:30 PM

I have no clue what you mean by “True Marriage Equality”. I feel I have vented enough on this topic and will only discuss it thoughtfully. Perhaps you are thoughtful. I don’t know since I don’t remember my interactions with you before. No insult. Like so many people, I am bad with names. I won’t be back until a little after 3.

thuja on November 28, 2012 at 2:37 PM

Don’t you know that you’re a bigot too, blink? Or are you wearing blinders?

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 2:40 PM

Blink, bigotry exists everywhere. There is no escaping it.

SC.Charlie on November 28, 2012 at 2:41 PM

According to Islamic law, a muslim man can marry 4 women. We need to fight for ‘marriage equality’. If they love each other, who are we to stand in their way. Their civil rights are being violated. /s

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 2:46 PM

Seriously? You don’t know what true equality is? – blink on November 28, 2012 at 2:41 PM

Give it a rest blink, stop being hysterical. I support gay marriage. I just hope that homosexuals who get married are better at staying married and keeping their vows than heterosexuals.

SC.Charlie on November 28, 2012 at 2:47 PM

‘Try to be smart’. Lol, when you lose the arguement, try condescension.

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 2:50 PM

And I’ve answered every one. Still the condescending attitude, I see. What else can I expect from a bigot.

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 3:02 PM

SC Charlie, blink thinks that everyone else is a bigot, except him/her self. Thats how blink started commenting on this thread. Don’t take it to heart.

tommy71 on November 28, 2012 at 3:05 PM

a big NO on that question sir..

Is this just weariness on my part? I don’t mind being mocked on issues of first importance, but I confess that I’m tired of being hated for my stance on something I consider secondary, especially when that gets in the way of communicating over the primary matters.

You do know what happened to Jesus don’t you? You think this persecution is bad, try being Jesus when he died on the cross for YOU! You don’t know real persecution..try living in the middle east and being a christian..that’s real persecution..

here’s a verse for everyone to think on

John 15:18-21

“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you… If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you… because they do not know Him who sent Me.”

sadsushi on November 28, 2012 at 3:07 PM

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