Is it immoral for Israel to retaliate against Gaza?
Under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, Israel has the right to defend its citizens against Gaza’s rockets. And in doing so, it isn’t bound by some one-to-one formula. It has the right to regard the threat that Hamas poses as an annihilating one, given the emphatic language of its Covenant. Yet because it is a liberal democracy guided by enlightened, humanistic values, which come into conflict whenever it is forced to defend itself against those for whom martyred lives are badges of religious honor, laws only offer limited guidance.
Israel’s moral dilemma is also untenably compounded by the asymmetry of its and Hamas’ campaigns on the ground. Hamas’ fighters, and their stockpile of weapons, are embedded among civilians—and targeting civilians and casually living among them violates the rules of war. Wholly unique to most armies, Israeli soldiers almost never confront a combatant in uniform. The hell that is war is magnified by the morbid knowledge that every weapon fired might kill an actual civilian, an innocent child, a pregnant woman. Generals of long ago rarely faced such foes or fought with such regret.









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No it is not immoral, IMO! If the sub-humans fire the rockets from a school, mosque, supermarket, etc. knowing any people there will be killed, they are the ones that are immoral! But when Israel does defend their country and citizens with rockets, All he!! breaks loose in the bhopress/press all over the world what monsters they are! And the sub-humans are all to eager to show a child killed, if said child wasn’t killed by Israel!
God be with you Irael.
L
letget on November 25, 2012 at 11:26 AM
It’s pathetic that Rosenbaum can write this and not pose the same moral outrage question he posed against Israel.
moonsbreath on November 25, 2012 at 11:30 AM
No!
Any more questions?
trs on November 25, 2012 at 11:36 AM
One has to remember that Rosenbaum and his liberal ilk are racists who see the Palestinians as subhumans. Useful subhumans, but subhumans nonetheless, and thus incapable of being held to the same standards they want imposed on their enemies like the United States and Israel.
We see the same with Susan Rice. Because she has one drop of black blood and is female, she’s EXPECTED to be an ignorant puppet, and thus expecting her to live up to white-male standards is misogynist and racist.
northdallasthirty on November 25, 2012 at 11:38 AM
Is it immoral to ask stupid questions?
oldernwiser on November 25, 2012 at 11:38 AM
Dresdenize Gaza.
Shy Guy on November 25, 2012 at 11:39 AM
Trick question?
Dingbat63 on November 25, 2012 at 11:42 AM
Pat Condell: Peace in the Middle East
Shy Guy on November 25, 2012 at 11:44 AM
The Nazis put ammo dumps next to hospitals. Hospitals had large red crosses painted on their roofs to warn away the bombers.
Hamas is continuing the Jew-hating tradition (in more ways than one, of course).
Wethal on November 25, 2012 at 11:44 AM
It would be utterly immoral for Israel not only not to retaliate, but to retaliate with such force as to kill as many combatants as possible for them to surrender.
Considering that the enemy worships death at any cost, they will not surrender. They will either mete out death, pray for it, or both in their sick vision of a global caliphate that will see the beheading of the last Jew on earth.
So, sadly, in order to defeat Hamas, Hezbollah and whatever group that is currently lobbing rockets and suicide bombers at it, Israel must defeat a 1,300 year old death cult with over a billion followers.
Rixon on November 25, 2012 at 11:47 AM
Oh brother! Some of you have misread Rosenbaum. He’s saying that Hamas has violated the rules of war by hiding and stockpiling weapons among civilians. When civilians get killed, it is Hamas fault.
Also, it is Hamas who is targeting Israeli civilians. I will say that he could have made his points clearer.
Blake on November 25, 2012 at 11:49 AM
They are direct descendants of Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who fomented much of the modern war against the Jews of the middle east back in the 20′s, and plotted directly with Hitler to exterminate the Jews of the region once the Germans conquered the area and won the war.
Rixon on November 25, 2012 at 11:49 AM
Israel needs to tell its critics to pound sand. And if civilians are killed as Israel tries to defend itself, too bad. Until these civilians rise up and demand that these weapons are removed from their neighborhoods, they are complicit in this war.
karenhasfreedom on November 25, 2012 at 11:53 AM
Hamas seeks civilian casualties for propaganda purposes. And the more Israel tries to minimize casualties the more Hamas will put supposed civilians at risk.
Israel needs to take the viewpoint that there are no civilians in Gaza. Any and all suspected military should be targeted and destroyed. If that means Dresden in Gaza, then so be it. Maybe after 20-50,000 deaths Gazans will realize that they will not and cannot win.
Will this mean war with Egypt? Unlikely. I think the Egyptian military would rather shoot Morsi and Muslim Brotherhood fanatics than be shot by IDF forces.
iconoclast on November 25, 2012 at 11:55 AM
Israel is complying with the rules of war – Hamas is not. Whatever Israel does, the left will complain. Screw them.
Blake on November 25, 2012 at 12:04 PM
FYNQ
WeekendAtBernankes on November 25, 2012 at 12:07 PM
Has this guy even opened the Torah?
vityas on November 25, 2012 at 12:18 PM
Go ahead. Make my day.
Shy Guy on November 25, 2012 at 12:48 PM
When your enemy is fighting a purely guerrilla war there are no innocent civilians.
tommyboy on November 25, 2012 at 12:57 PM
The only way to protect civilians – on both sides – is the complete expulsion of all muslems from Israeli territory, and the annexation of the Gaza strip, West Bank, and Golan Heights.
They can then tear down the mosque of the death cult known as islam, and rebuild God’s temple.
Rebar on November 25, 2012 at 1:16 PM
Of course it is not immoral. What’s immoral is questioning Israel’s right to defend itself with quibbles, moral equivalencies, and not coming down hard on the Palestinian aggressors.
Most of Hamas’ and Islamic Jihad’s leaders should have been standing in front of the Hague for war crimes long ago.
Dusty on November 25, 2012 at 1:30 PM
Mr Rosenbaum, perhaps inadvertently, opens up a “pandora’s box” which he may wish he had left shut. For many years I have questioned the moral obligation of the State of Israel to comply with international law.
Mr. Rosenbaum concedes the legality of Israel’s responses to Hamas/Palestinian/Hezbollah/whatever (let’s call them HPHW for short) but argues that, because Israel’s responses are so effective they raise issues of disproprortionality and thus immorality in responding as such.
This raises two points I would like to address.
First, we live in the first time in history…at least since Biblical times…that the Jewish People have been able to defend themselves effectively against the marauding, slaughters, pogroms and other atrocities they have suffered throughout history simply because they were Jews. Expulsions From Iberia, forced conversions, confiscation of property, non-access to courts, repeated pogroms all over Europe as well as the Holocaust itself never raised issues of disproportionality or morality, at least not in time to prevent them from happening. There is, for example, ample evidence that Polish diplomats placed detailed reports on the desk of FDR during WWII of the Holocaust going on inside Poland and he chose to remain silent and do nothing. A recent piece on the BBC reported how British and the BBC deliberately chose, for ” strategic ressons”, to remain silent about warning Hungarian Jews in 1944 about what would happen to them once the Germans occupied their country. As a result, the Hungarian Jews were not warned and remained in place when the Nazis arrived. Within just a few months over 500,000 of the 800,000 pre-war population of Hungarian Jews had been murdered. We also know that after the war the British intercepted Jewish survivors of the Holocaust as they attempted to sail to Palestine, rounded them up and “housed” back in the same concentration camps from which they had emerged.
Now, finally, when Israel can defend itself effectively…indeed in such a way as that any normal attacker should actually be deterred…and now that such defence is, as Mr. Rosenbaum concedes, legal…now we must (or are reduced to) question its morality. Mr. Rosenbaum’s questions of immorality in the Israeli response fall a bit flat.
But my second question goes a bit deeper. Mr. Rosenbaum wants to examine the morality of Israel taking advantage of international law to its benefit, so lets look at the bigger picture. What is Israel’s moral obligation to comply with ANY international law?
When has international law ever been applied to benefit or protect Israel or the Jewish People? Obviously, international law as a set of norms has evolved slowly. In many ways it is quite recent. It is safe to say that throughout history such law as existed rarely benefitted Jews. Laws were applied against them, or they were not permitted to take advantage of laws which could help them. There were many examples by which Jewish bankers, for example, would be prohibited from suing to collect debts owing to them. Jews in many countries were second class citizens and unable to take advantage of laws of general application…Ottoman Turks are said to have been good to the Jews why? Because they didn’t slaughter them….but they did not allow them equal treatment.
International law has been bent, folded and mutilated in order to attack Israel and the Jews. Look at such ICJ decisions as The Wall case, which sought to prohibit Israel from passive defence of its population. Look at the Goldstone Report. If you do not want to accept Israeli criticism of the report read Justice Goldstone’s own recantation of the report that bears his name to see how international law was systematically abused, manipulated and mutated in order to provide another foundation for attacking Israel. Or look at the so-called Human Rights Council of the UN which is simply another fountain of anti-semitism but one cloaked by international law.
And look at today. International law is NOT silent on the issue of the illegality of TARGETING civilians as a tactic/strategy, or using one’s own civilians as human shields. It is illegal, yet the silence of the world in the face of repeated rocket attacks aimed at Israeli civilians is in brutal contrast to the cacophony raised when Israel tries to protect itself from such attacks by trying to remove the rockets hidden behind human shields. As I have commented here before, Israelis never suffer collateral damage as do the Palestinians because what the Israelis, and the rest of the civilized world, defines as “collateral damage” the HPHW define as “targets”. An alien landing on our planet could be forgiven for concluding that such attacks against Israelis were permitted and even condoned…such a being would no doubt be surprised that the state of international law ran completely opposite to the news coverage and commentary about the situation.
So the question arises about Israel’s moral obligation to comply with international law. Of course it is a State and has a legal obligation, but Mr. Rosenbaum has raised the issue of morality and that is a different question.
If international law is not applied to Israel, and if Israel is not permitted to take advantage of any such laws as may benefit it, then how may we conclude that Israel has a MORAL obligation to comply with any such law? I am interested in the response.
One other question if we want to look at the respective morality of Israel vs HPHW. Imagine if Israel decided that it would protect its installations from HPHW attacks by hiding them behind human shields…how effective a tactic would that be? Wouldn’t it, instead, make things just that much easier for the HPHW?
I know this is a long “comment” but Mr. Rosenbaum has raised issues that require more than a “sound bite” to address.
Blaise on November 25, 2012 at 2:22 PM