Can we be Sweden?
The Swedish experience does demonstrate that it’s possible for a welfare-state society to survive the waning of religion and the decline of traditional marriage without sacrificing middle class prosperity. But this success is founded on a level of cultural homogeneity and an inheritance of social capital that simply isn’t available in a polyglot republic-cum-empire like our own. Sweden has the population of North Carolina, no real linguistic or religious diversity, no experience of chattel slavery or mass immigration (and the children of recent immigrants in Sweden, incidentally, tend to have much higher poverty rates than the native-born), and a culture of Lutheran thrift and prudence that endures even though Lutheranism itself is on life support. America is and always has been a country of much greater diversity and wider cultural extremes, which is why we’ve always had to lean more heavily than smaller and more homogeneous societies on a wide array of mediating institutions — churches, families and private associations of all sorts — to foster assimilation, encourage upward mobility, and make the pursuit of happiness a possibility for people from wildly different walks of life. Even if the Scandinavian counter-example — in which a strong government compensates for a weakened social fabric — has some applicability here, it offers fewer lessons than many liberals like to think. The bonds that hold Swedish society together aren’t just the creation of a well-funded welfare state, and they simply aren’t available to, say, recent immigrants in Southern California or struggling blue-collar workers in the post-industrial Midwest.
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It won’t even be possible for Sweden to be Sweden much longer.
forest on November 22, 2012 at 10:09 AM
Plus, Sweden isn’t the economic engine of the planet. No one cares about Sweden.
lorien1973 on November 22, 2012 at 10:12 AM
I dont’ want to be Sweden. Let’s try being the United States of America again.
Mitoch55 on November 22, 2012 at 10:13 AM
In a decade, Sweden will be an islamic hellhole.
Rebar on November 22, 2012 at 10:14 AM
Government intrusion into our lives, society and the market is causing our problems. We don’t need to become Sweden, we need to defeat the government that’s killing and robbing us.
darwin on November 22, 2012 at 10:20 AM
I don’t like blonds.
CurtZHP on November 22, 2012 at 10:20 AM
The greatest challenge to modern conservatism is the collapse – or great decline at the very least – of these mediating institutions.
Without them self-government can’t work. After all, as the saying goes self government requires the governing of the self. And mediating institutions are essential in that governing.
A homogeneous nation I guess can survive with weaker mediating institutions. But as Douthat points out, we’re an enormously diverse nation that can’t. Well, it can but the state will be “saving” or unifying institution.
SteveMG on November 22, 2012 at 10:22 AM
Who would want to be Sweden? And the “poor” “recent immigrants” are mulsims, lets call it what it is. Welfare only sorta kinda is sustainable when there is some aspect of guilt or shame associated with using it. As “recent immigrants” use the welfare offerings to their maximum and as the culture adapts to accept welfare as a legit alternative to work… well, Welcome to America our Swedish friends!
Timin203 on November 22, 2012 at 10:23 AM
Yes.
davidk on November 22, 2012 at 10:26 AM
What is wrong with being the United States of America?
Ceroth on November 22, 2012 at 10:26 AM
Don’t place your trust in any institutions. The only way to have a successful self-governing society is to have a society based on the rule of law, spelled out in a constitution of sorts that provide limitations on what the majority can do to the minority. A big aspect of this is forcing people to be self sufficient by not subsidizing bad behavior with money out of their neighbors paycheck, or worse, their children’s yet-unearned paychecks.
If people want to be amoral lazy losers and can find a family member or friend willing to subsidize their lifestyle that’s fine with me.
Timin203 on November 22, 2012 at 10:26 AM
Fully 100% of the population owning guns?
Yeah, I could be down with that.
Washington Nearsider on November 22, 2012 at 10:27 AM
Or, maybe this link. Whoops.
Washington Nearsider on November 22, 2012 at 10:28 AM
In fact, I would much prefer a society where people can sit around, get drunk and shoot heroin all day. As long as no one is forcing me to pay for any of that, I’d be more than willing to tolerate it.
That’s what I don’t understand about the republican establishment. Let’s walk the walk… we believe in more liberty? Great, let’s stop using the heavy hand of the federal government to stop passing moral guidelines. Anyone can marry whoever or whatever they want, smoke shoot or snort anything they want, drink anything they want… with one little caveat.
Don’t expect the government to be there to help you. You can succeed or fail on your own, make your own good or bad decisions, and let the chips fall where they will.
How is that not preferable to our current death spiral of a system?
Timin203 on November 22, 2012 at 10:30 AM
Sweden:
100% Gun Ownership
State Church & mandatory tithe.
5M mostly white Christians.
Has a King & Queen.
Massive sate-owned fossil fuel exports to subsidize the government.
Is this what they like about Sweden?
p0s3r on November 22, 2012 at 10:31 AM
Are you willing to expel, by lethal force if necessary, the majority of the Democrat ‘minorities’ who do nothing but vote themselves more welfare money and cause crime?
If you’re not, then you can forget being Sweden. Ever. Not in this lifetime, not in your children’s, not in your grandchildren’s.
The solution to our problems is not to try and copy another nation from wholecloth, folks.
MelonCollie on November 22, 2012 at 10:34 AM
A good number of moons ago my parents came to visit my wife and I here (in Sweden) for the first time. Sitting in the car watching the world go by whilst waiting for our women to come out of a shop, my old man turns to me and says ‘People don’t smile much here, do they?’.
That pretty much sums up socialism for me.
Nordic on November 22, 2012 at 10:40 AM
Wanna know if we can be Sweden? Ask yourself if South Central Los Angeles can be Beverly Hills. Your answer is in there…somewhere.
Rational Thought on November 22, 2012 at 10:46 AM
Why would we want to be Sweden?
Revenant on November 22, 2012 at 10:51 AM
Yes and no, mostly no. That’s certainly part of what a successful nation needs (a modern one at least) but it needs much more than the government. You are only considering the government and not the private sector. We don’t want to the state governing all of us all the time.
Without mediating institutions the state must step in to fill the vacuum. As I said, self government – democracy – requires a populace that is able to govern itself and doesn’t have to rely on the state to provide for them.
SteveMG on November 22, 2012 at 10:58 AM
Life in Scandinavia is a sad affair. And I not talking about the climate (which really sucks too).
Sure, the UN (LOL) regularly ranks the Scandinavian countries as “best places to live” based on socialist benchmarks such as “access to healthcare”. Never mind that you wait months or even years for surgery, etc.
Binge drinking and alcoholism are rampant. People are generally cold and unwelcome. Radical Islam is on the rise in the ghettos. Gas is $8/gallon, and a decent new car (not a shoebox 4 cyl) will cost over $100,000 after government taxes. Of course, that is in addition to 25% national sales tax. The government will even tax your bank account (percentage of your average balance, taxes on interest is on top of that).
So sure, let’s be more like them /Sarc
I say this as someone who is Scandinavian native. I would also say Obama reminds me of the socialist left over there (far worse than the more “moderate” Social Democrats).
Norwegian on November 22, 2012 at 11:07 AM
I like how Douthat cites Krugmen who acknowledges the economy is in the crapper and the only solution is a stronger welfare state.
heretic on November 22, 2012 at 11:09 AM
Thank you for the insider insight. I wanted to comment on how their social aspects aren’t completely rosy either, but I lacked the authority and information to do so.
MelonCollie on November 22, 2012 at 11:10 AM
It’s always good to quote Tocqueville even if I’m not very original (hey, it’s Thanksgiving Day, gimme a break):
And:
Our liberal friends welcome this, for the most part.
SteveMG on November 22, 2012 at 11:17 AM
We already have a Sweden. It’s called Sweden. Move to Sweden.
Ronnie on November 22, 2012 at 11:26 AM
Where are you getting 100%? Looks like about a third.
Ronnie on November 22, 2012 at 11:31 AM
That’s what my spouse says. I’m blond.
Frank Enstine on November 22, 2012 at 11:43 AM
Without a state willing to provide for them, the people will find ways to fill in the rest of the blanks. Governments job is to provide the rule of law, a system of courts to address fraud and other problems, and a military capable of defending the country.
Anything beyond that will work itself out… But the prerequisite of everything else is that solid building block. As for institutions, I imagine you mean churches, community groups, etc., those are all fine, but absolutely not necessary to having a successful country.
Like I said, those institutions come later, they will fill in as needs arise (taking care of poor, disabled, elderly who can no longer care for themselves), but all of that is just an after thought.
Timin203 on November 22, 2012 at 11:51 AM
Tell the libs the Swedes partially privatized their social security and they might not heart Sweden so much.
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2000/06/pension-reform-in-sweden-lessons-for-american-policymakers
MHatch on November 22, 2012 at 12:03 PM
Leftist writers can all move to China, Sweden, Venezuela, or any other Utopian hellhole they desire to dwell in. Just go and never return, azzholes. You don’t deserve what you have, you abusers.
Go to Hell, for this alone.
Schadenfreude on November 22, 2012 at 12:35 PM
Sweden has seen her idiocies and reverts to sanity.
The US goes to Hades. Heads first, into the cliff, you Utopian hypocritical fools. Go live like the rest of the world, and don’t ever come back. I wish nothing more for you and your progeny, you scum of the Earth.
May you and yours suffer, eternally.
Schadenfreude on November 22, 2012 at 12:37 PM
No we can’t be Sweden. I’m an unmarried, puritan male. I’d like to maintain that, thank you very much. Swedish blondes, too much temptation. Lol
tommy71 on November 22, 2012 at 1:10 PM