The American dream is alive and well — in Canada
Looking beyond the material needs of the poor, what really matters is income mobility: How easy it is for people to better their lot in life by moving up the economic ladder, and whether the structure that’s in place creates a permanent underclass of destitute citizens. And the answer is good news: According to a new study from the Fraser Institute, Canadians are not stuck on one rung of the economic ladder; they in fact enjoy a high degree of income mobility.
The report examined Statistics Canada data on groups of people over five, 10 and 19 year periods. In all the time periods, those in the lowest income bracket experienced the highest degree of income mobility. Between 1990 and 2009, 87% of those in the bottom 20% of income earners moved into a higher income group; 21% managed to move all the way up to the top 20% of earners. The average salaries of people at the bottom increased by 635% over that same period of time…
The take away for Canadians is that a little hard work can go a long way.
Blowback
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And wouldn’t ya know, everyone is covered by their healthcare system! Everyone gets free access to higher education!
ernesto on November 21, 2012 at 2:42 PM
canada is more fiscally conservative than america. no brainer.
therightwinger on November 21, 2012 at 2:44 PM
Impossible, Canada is a socialist hellhole.
Pablo Honey on November 21, 2012 at 2:44 PM
Covered financially for their healthcare system, unfortunately, when you look at their health care system, getting care is rare and people with means come to the USA for care. That is the problem with that system, it reduces medical care capacity while at the same time increasing medical care demand. Capacity decreases below need and demand increases well beyond need. Success!
astonerii on November 21, 2012 at 2:46 PM
Ahh.. no on the free higher education.
As for covered healtcare I’ve had to bring my parents down twice now from Canada and pay out of pocket because the wait times would have been long.
Apart from that it’s great to go back and visit but I can’t afford to live there…
Caper29 on November 21, 2012 at 2:47 PM
They have been moving away from that for some time. Same as Sweden, China, Russia and others. Socialism doesn’t work, and its only the Obama supporters who didn’t get the memo.
sharrukin on November 21, 2012 at 2:49 PM
Paging Dave Rywall
ToddPA on November 21, 2012 at 2:49 PM
Damn that reality and its liberal bias!
lester on November 21, 2012 at 2:51 PM
Trying to get basic MRI access in Canada is like a unicorn hunt. And McGill’s own website says they charge Canadian citizens $6,000 a semester. But otherwise you’re totally dead on.
JeremiahJohnson on November 21, 2012 at 2:52 PM
Er. No.
What is “free access to higher education”. Everyone has “free access” if you mean they can apply. However, people have to pay to go to school like everyone else. It is also subsidized to a certain extent by the government, so that means higher taxes even to those that are not interested.
As for the healthcare system, there are numerous problems within and if you talk to people who understand the system you will find there’s a mini two-tiered system already and if the system is to be sustained they will eventually have to embrace a two-tiered system. That’s the reality.
I could be here for about two or three pages to explain this to you, but I’ll quickly mention waiting lists and underfunding. Both are serious problems that are killing patients.
But FREE!
kim roy on November 21, 2012 at 2:52 PM
It also allows them to improve the appearance of their health care outcomes. If you never diagnose that disease, then your citizen died of natural causes… It is all part of the propaganda.
astonerii on November 21, 2012 at 2:53 PM
SNORK.
Yep. They elected a conservative majority (conservative in Canada anyways) and their socialist party (NDP) was trashed nationally has been relegated to one province.
kim roy on November 21, 2012 at 2:54 PM
No 10 billion years of darkness due to gay marriage and healthcare? Someone page Chuck Norris.
lester on November 21, 2012 at 2:55 PM
http://www.canadian-universities.net/Campus/Tuition-Fees.html
“Tuition and Fees for Universities in Canada
Attending post-secondary school in Canada is not free. To address this issue, schools charge various fees for students to attend their school. These fees are charged by educational institutions to assist with funding of staff and faculty, course offerings, lab equipment, computer systems, libraries, facility upkeep, and to provide a comfortable student learning experience.”
gophergirl on November 21, 2012 at 2:56 PM
Give it time.
astonerii on November 21, 2012 at 2:57 PM
This study is a multi-decade study. Didn’t bother reading even the summary?!!
Keep denying reality.
lester on November 21, 2012 at 2:58 PM
No wonder, the US under Obama has become much more socialist that Canada. Government spebding now constitutes a larger portion of the economy in the US than in Canada and most of Europe.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Us_gov_spending_history_1902_2010.png
Norwegian on November 21, 2012 at 2:59 PM
Care is not rare, that is a ridiculous statement, Canada is not third world country. Less than 1 percent of patients go outside Canada for healthcare.
We definitely have our issues, no doubt. Wait times are the main problem.
In any case, our system will soon look pretty good to those of you with Obamacare death panels.
Also, ernesto is living in some kind of dreamworld if he thinks higher education is free. Tuition is subsidized (about half of what U.S. tuition is).
Mitsouko on November 21, 2012 at 3:01 PM
Speaking of Canadians coming to America to get their health care due to long wait times, expect Canadian mortality rates to rise when Obamacare is fully implemented and they have nowhere to go.
The Rogue Tomato on November 21, 2012 at 3:03 PM
Care is certainly more rare than it would be in a capitalist run healthcare system. So, if you have to wait, and your condition is life threatening, and if they do not check you to see if it is life threatening, then they cannot know, you die.
Glad you know you got issues in it, you live it, so you understand.
I might come up and visit. I am sure you guys need mechanical/aerospace engineers…
As for worrying about Obamacare… I will not get insurance and do what I do now, pay out of pocket.
astonerii on November 21, 2012 at 3:05 PM
Yeahhh, the land where catheters are pulled out of one arm, washed with distilled water, at best, then inserted into another one. Happy AIDS going.
Oh, the wait for any impactful surgery or heart problem…you’re long gone by that time…I could tell you chapters of incidents.
Schadenfreude on November 21, 2012 at 3:06 PM
On topic, maybe Dave Rywall wishes to immigrate the the US now.
Schadenfreude on November 21, 2012 at 3:06 PM
astonerii on November 21, 2012 at 2:46 PM
Shhhh, don’t tell the moochers how to save themselves. Let them die in that system.
Schadenfreude on November 21, 2012 at 3:08 PM
And they all get pet unicorns free of charge too!
xblade on November 21, 2012 at 3:09 PM
You could write a book for dummies for the moochers, and they would still be sitting there waiting for their Obamacare death sentence to be carried out before they chose to pay for something from their own industry.
astonerii on November 21, 2012 at 3:09 PM
Canada’s healthcare system is terrible and unsustainable.
Here’s an article by the Fraser Institute from 2010: “Why we are paying more for Health Care and getting less”
Quote:
“The Canadian Medical Association (CMA) recently published a paper about the worrisome condition of Canada’s health-care system. Its report concluded that the growth in government spending on health care is unsustainable, and that medicare is failing to provide adequate access to high-quality medical goods and services.”
I don’t agree with their conclusion, though. Switzerland and the Netherlands are bad examples for US healthcare, because both countries have small populations.
Gelsomina on November 21, 2012 at 3:12 PM
?? Are you disputing the facts I laid out in my comment? That is the current political climate and who is in power and who is not.
If you have a different person/party in power and the current state of the NDP, please do link it.
Thanks.
kim roy on November 21, 2012 at 3:14 PM
So, we’re supposed to be impressed that over the course of 20 years, 87% of people could lift themselves from poverty all the way up to, at least, the lower middle class! How impressive! And 27% made it to the top quintile! A fear do impressive only almost everyone I know, including me, has done it.
A more interesting study would be what percentage of the national income did each quintile earn and what were the changes in lifestyle this allegedly impressive mobility brings. Without knowing that, the study is at best a distraction and, at worst, stupid.
urban elitist on November 21, 2012 at 3:23 PM
This is not surprising, for the same reason it’s not surprising that Vermont has better education statistics than Texas. It’s very much the demographics. Canadians are mostly white Anglo-saxons enjoying the afterglow of a thousand years of Christian culture, supplemented by a recent influx of hard-working, well-educated Chinese immigrants. The bottom 20% of their income categories probably just refers to their young people, who rise in socio-economic status as they get older and move up the ladder.
By contrast, America has big demographic problems intentionally fostered by the Democrats, and our bottom 20% is neither willing nor able to move up the ladder. That doesn’t mean that Canada’s policies are better historically.
joe_doufu on November 21, 2012 at 3:27 PM
If almost everyone has done it, why are there 42.2 million people on food stamps? That’s much more than Canada’s entire population.
Gelsomina on November 21, 2012 at 3:30 PM
Because we pay them to remain in the bottom 20%.
astonerii on November 21, 2012 at 3:37 PM
I am so looking forward to you 2 clowns discovering the joys of Obamacare! I live in Canada, and am still paying for 2 kids’ university education loans. As for healthcare, I’ve lost 2 friends and one aquaintance as a direct result of not having access to healthcare. Just one of their circumstances: my friend became ill, and because his primary doctor couldn’t diagnose, started sending him to specialists. Each appointment with a different specialist took weeks to secure, but after 4 months he was diagnosed with a rare cancer. Unfortunately, although there is treatment in the U.S., the only treatment in Canada is to try to shrink the tumours with chemo, then keep the patient comfortable until his death. His doctor went to OHIP (the Ontario health program) and argued his case, and OHIP finally agreed to pay for treatment in the U.S., but it was too late.
So call them what you want — I personally think ‘death panels’ is pretty accurate — but costs will determine what treatments are available with Obamacare.
suzeecue on November 21, 2012 at 3:40 PM
I said almost everyone I know, which suggests that natural lifetime earnings patterns are in play, not some great “land of opportunity” dynamic. I mean, if I could it….
The current food stamp figure is irrelevant. According to this article. If those food stamp people move from food stamps simply up to the next level of near-poverty — and they have 20 years to do this — then it’s an example of a ragingly dynamic economy.
This study proves almost nothing of interest.
urban elitist on November 21, 2012 at 3:41 PM
Send them up 10 million welfare cases and check on them in ten years.
Throw in 5 million illegal aliens who won’t assimilate.
All their immigrants come from China with a suitcase full of cash and all of ours come from Mexico and immediately go on welfare and begin to vote.
They do not have to carry 1/20th of the dead weight that the U.S. does.
NeoKong on November 21, 2012 at 3:42 PM
There’s no need for a link. The study linked above is more than enough. You are saying Canada suddenly turned into Utopia because of Harper even though it seems it’s been on the path to greatness for many decades. If anybody’s performance is yet to be judged it’s that of Harper, not of the “socialism”.
Again, keep course and deny painful reality.
lester on November 21, 2012 at 3:43 PM
Yes, we are covered. However all the coverage in the world means squat if all that it gets you is a place on a waiting list. And that is all that it gets you.
If you want a “free” MRI, you have to wait about 6 months. If you come up with $400 or so, you can have it tomorrow afternoon. You’ll still have to wait months and in some cases years, depending on what’s wrong with you, to get in to see a specialist but yeah, we’re all covered.
Not one person in Canada would tolerate having to wait months for a appointment for the cat or dog but for some reason, we’re supposed to be happy to wait for our own medical care.
Just wait until Obamacare kicks in and you find out what it really is – a political system first and an employment system second. It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with your health or lack thereof.
And the free higher education thing is just too ridiculous to address.
Robin Banks on November 21, 2012 at 3:44 PM
I have to disagree about the Anglo-Saxons. I looked it up in the CIA factbook:
28% are of British Isles origin, 23% French, 15% other European, 6% Asian, African and Arab, 2% “Amerindian”, 26% mixed background.
The last one is the most interesting, IMO. Canada is still a melting pot.
But I agree that the demographic problems in the US have been fostered by the left.
Gelsomina on November 21, 2012 at 3:45 PM
NDP is the official oposition party in Canada now. They have 1/3 of the seats in the house. They govern two provinces, and they were not trashed in the last election as you claimed but rather they won the second most seats in the house. That’s their biggest win in history.
The only way the PC party won the election was the Liberals and NDP split the non-conservative votes.
The Progressive Conservatives in Canada are pretty much like liberals in the US. Pro-abortion, pro-gay rights, pro-immigration, pro government spending, and they don’t mind raising taxes.
Salahuddin on November 21, 2012 at 3:46 PM
Meet
Mitsouko on November 21, 2012 at 3:01 PM
suzeecue is right.
Schadenfreude on November 21, 2012 at 3:47 PM
BINGO. The dirty little secret of Canadian health care.
rockmom on November 21, 2012 at 3:48 PM
The muzzie brotherhood knows best.
Schadenfreude on November 21, 2012 at 3:48 PM
Same all over Europe, Mexico, Central/South America, Cuba and etc.
Schadenfreude on November 21, 2012 at 3:49 PM
You’re kidding, right? I said all that with this:
in response to this:
Are you aware that the two elections previously the conservative party has been getting more votes until the third where they were able to secure a majority?
No, you didn’t know that. They are starting to trend towards conservatism (at least in the Canadian form) and the socialist parties have been getting less votes, shown by the dismal and almost party crushing defeat of the NDP in the last election.
So going over the most important poll – an election – for the past three ones the conservatives have been gaining votes so much so that they have a majority, something I’d like to note the socialists (NDP) have never had.
So no, I wasn’t saying anything about “utopia”, but responding to the words “moving away”, which they are doing if election results are an indication, which I responded with.
You’re welcome. Go play in traffic or, even better, take a reading comprehension course.
kim roy on November 21, 2012 at 3:54 PM
Canada’s national debt is also only about 50% of GDP, and that is actually up from about 40% in 2008. That means more capital is available for business and not cukced up by interest on the debt.
rockmom on November 21, 2012 at 3:55 PM
Sorry, but governing as “opposition” from Quebec is not a national party. It’s definitely something they have to change, but it never will. It’s like having the Bloc Quebecois being the “opposition party”. Name only, with no real teeth except to play games with alliances.
And yes, it is conservatism lite if you are comparing. You’ll note that I am clear to indicate that it is “Canadian conservatism”, not straight out “conservatism”.
kim roy on November 21, 2012 at 4:00 PM
Was curious when you said 1/3 NDP. So went and looked at:
politics
Interesting thing I noted was how regionalized it was. Quebec, which has always been known to march to their own tune is the main keeper of the socialist flame, but that’s more that they were taking it to the BQ, which is their usual political statement. So if you were to take away the protest vote for the NDP over BQ, then they’d only be scattered across the country.
I also noted that Western Canada trended fairly heavily towards the conservatives. That is not going to change any time soon as it has trended this way for a number of elections – the current conservatives were born out of Western Canada.
Thanks for the discussion – it motivated me to look for this site.
kim roy on November 21, 2012 at 4:07 PM
The left doesn’t care how good everyone has it, if someone has it better, something is wrong. Socialism is based on the human foible of jealousy.
If everyone was a millionaire, it would still stick in their craw if someone was a billionaire. And since a billionaire has a thousand times more wealth than a millionaire, they will cry out for social justice for the millionaires!
keep the change on November 21, 2012 at 4:10 PM
Ah! Now I get why he’s so confused. He thought NDP is not liberal because… well, their party name is not Liberal.
Canada just turned into a virtual two party system. Conservatives would not have as easy of a time next election when they will have to win rather than wait for NDP, BQ and Liberals to hand them the election by dividing the vote.
Imagine if Green Party here won a third of the Dem vote.
This is all disregarding the fact that you can’t even compare Canadian conservatism with the radical right wing tea party anti-healthcare fanatical religious lunacy we have here.
lester on November 21, 2012 at 4:25 PM
Under Obama, Debt/GDP has gone from manageable Canadian levels to 105%. Given the current trajectory will be pass Greece (140%) within 24 months.
Norwegian on November 21, 2012 at 4:25 PM
I’m actually more of a Conservative in Canada than NDP (which is basically a socialist part). Stephen Harper is not an idiot, he avoided and ignored every socially divisive issue the small c-Conservatives wanted. That’s why he successfully led the PC party to win a majority government.
Salahuddin on November 21, 2012 at 4:31 PM
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