Until you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that God wants us to interpret the meaning of the Bible’s words the way you do, I’ll stick by my understanding that we are born good.

I say, to say we are all born bad, in rebellion against God, makes about as much sense as it does to say it was righteous for ancient Israelites to stone homosexuals and adulterers to death.

Anti-Control on November 21, 2012 at 6:35 AM

You are following the atheist/naturalist in demanding “proof.” The question then becomes, What do you mean by “proof.”

Usually, people who demand proof are demanding empirical proof: It’s not true unless it can be proven in a laboratory. But that is self-defeating because it itself cannot be proven empirically.

As for going with your own personal interpretation, that is at root the problem. Postmodern interpretation of Biblical text only leads to anarchy, antinomianism. Your name hints at such: Anti-control.

The orthodox understanding of human nature is that man was created in the image of God, but that image is marred due to Adam’s fall. We are born with a sin nature which prevents us from doing what is right.

Paul wrote about that in Romans 7:

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

righteous for ancient Israelites to stone homosexuals and adulterers to death.

There is no evidence that anyone was ever stoned for these sins. God did demand that, but that shows how serious He is about the sins that can destroy our lives.

If you find that offensive, you’ll have to take it up with God. Sinful man that I am, I don’t claim to fully understand the ways of God. But I understand enough to trust Him. And today, He has offered a way for the forgiveness of our sins.

We don’t have the luxury of cherry-picking through the Bible. To do so is tantamount to saying I know better than God.

they gave significantly more money to the common good than did participants who relied on reflection to make their choices. This again suggests that our intuitive impulse is to cooperate with others.

Where I work, it is common knowledge that most of the line staff is underpaid. One of the perqs is that they usually throw a lavish Christmas party for the staff. This year, some jackass made the suggestion that the company forgo the big party in favor of a pot luck dinner and give the money they would have spent to charity. They held a “secret” ballot via email.

Almost everybody voted for the pot luck even though they wanted the party. Why? Because they didn’t want to appear selfish.

We are all made in God’s image and as such none of us are worthless. However, the Bible teaches that none of us are born good. We are all in rebellion against God.

INC on November 21, 2012 at 2:56 AM

Until you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that God wants us to interpret the meaning of the Bible’s words the way you do, I’ll stick by my understanding that we are born good.

I say, to say we are all born bad, in rebellion against God, makes about as much sense as it does to say it was righteous for ancient Israelites to stone homosexuals and adulterers to death.

Anti-Control on November 20, 2012 at 10:18 PM

We are all made in God’s image and as such none of us are worthless. However, the Bible teaches that none of us are born good. We are all in rebellion against God.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Romans 3:10—18

10 as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Confirmed: Human nature is good

Human nature is good for whom, and for what?

Why we humans struggle with evil is a different issue than our quality at birth – my mom, a Christian, used to say, “God doesn’t make junk”, and I happen to agree with her!