The GOP’s last best hope: The Ron Paul revolution
The naysayers will point out: “He didn’t even win a primary.” This is true, but when polled directly against President Obama, Ron Paul ran neck-and-neck with an interesting demographic. In the heat of the campaign, a Feb. 28 Rasmussen poll showed him leading Mr. Obama, winning the independent vote, taking a significant part of the Democratic vote and losing a significant part of the Republican vote. He truly attracted voters across the political divide from both parties and from independents.
His colleagues in Congress would ask with envy, “How do you raise so much money from the youth? From the Internet?” The truth was much more revealing. College students, welders, carpenters, maids, blacks, whites and Hispanics latched onto Ron Paul’s unique message of fiscal conservatism, personal privacy and liberty and a less bellicose foreign policy, one of taking care of things at home before sending our soldiers and our money abroad. It is and was the message that attracted the youth, the message that combined the fiscal conservatism and limited constitutional government of Republicans and a more restrained foreign policy sometimes exhibited by Democrats.
When the GOP examines itself to try to regain its mojo, I hope Republicans will look at the message of Ron Paul, because as it stands now, the GOP is a dinosaur that can’t compete on the West Coast, in New England or in the Great Lakes region.











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This thread will cause more fireworks than what you’re seeing in Gaza and Israel.
Paul does have a salient point even if there are many flaws in his positions.
Liberty.
The GOP and the Democrats are bipartisan in one sense – they are anti-liberty.
CorporatePiggy on November 16, 2012 at 8:06 PM
Nawwww, but I could probably go for the Rand Paul revolution.
petefrt on November 16, 2012 at 8:07 PM
You don’t say
WeekendAtBernankes on November 16, 2012 at 8:09 PM
Sigh. I’m ready, Rand. I think I’m ready.
Only wave after wave of Ronulans storming the beaches of “progress” could possibly save us from the red tide of ink and socialism. They would just. keep. coming.
Punchenko on November 16, 2012 at 8:12 PM
People really should be disturbed at the new and improved Patriot Act and the NDAA and the Fed etc.
If it takes a batsh*t crazy midget Texan to point that out…well, how far have we fallen.
CorporatePiggy on November 16, 2012 at 8:14 PM
I personally can’t wait for jp to find this thread and bring up his giant book of Anti-Paul talking points he goes through in EVERY SINGLE Paul thread.
thphilli on November 16, 2012 at 8:15 PM
Imagine how butthurt the GOP would be if our nominee actually meant the things he said while campaigning? Smaller government, states rights, etc? The GOP would be furious if a candidate ran on that and won, and then actually governed by those principles.
thphilli on November 16, 2012 at 8:21 PM
I’m there for ya, Senator.
JohnGalt23 on November 16, 2012 at 8:21 PM
!@#^%ing THIS!!!
I was in high school when the ‘Patriot Act’ was passed, took one look at it and said “A: this won’t secure jack squat and B: it will be used against lawful citizens!”.
A few more influential people also noticed…but in the aftermath of 9/11 everyone was so “RARRG KILL TERRORISTS!” basically nobody would listen.
And guess what happened?
MelonCollie on November 16, 2012 at 8:27 PM
I will be the first to admit Ron is a very old and tired white guy who’s Public Enemy #1 of the military lobbyists, paid and unpaid.
If it takes Rand to lead the rev-o-lution, so be it. You’ll not see me freaking out over that fact.
MelonCollie on November 16, 2012 at 8:30 PM
Okay, look, there are some aspects of Ron Paul’s platform I’d like, and I’d love to better integrate those areas into the Republican platform. Specifically I’m referring to the smaller government platform, as well as Ron Paul’s monetary policy and generally more libertarian approach to most social issues.
Mainstream GOP candidates, well, many of them do seem to want to shrink government, but they want to do it by an extremely incremental approach. This isn’t, inherently flawed, but it renders whatever progress you do make somewhat fragile, and makes it harder to differentiate yourself from your opponents.
The approach favored by the Ron Paul followers, however, is unrealistic. In the long term it may not be, but in the short term they’re asking us to go from 120MPH to 0 in five seconds. I agree that this is what we’re eventually going to need, but while mainstream GOP candidates are too incremental Ron Paul’s platform isn’t incremental enough. Simply put, no matter how big a political victory we manage, it’s unlikely we’ll have the power to immediately push through such changes. It might be a good idea to start out with such a dramatic reduction for negotiation purposes, but anybody expecting that sort of reduction would end up sadly disappointed.
My general thought is to find some sort of middle ground, something more bold than the typical mainstream Repulican selling point of using small cuts and growth to reduce deficits and the government, but something more achievable than Ron Pauls, “I’m gonna get absolutely everything I want immediately,” notion.
Now, the one issue I simply cannot get behind, is Ron Paul’s foreign policy. While I would agree that we do need to be less aggressive in our foreign policy, I still feel we need a powerful enough military to meet the following needs. 1: To offer significant protection to key allies such as Japan, South Korea, and Isreal, 2: to maintain enough presence to prevent a power vacuum, or at least an abrupt power vacuum, and 3: To maintain the troop and equipment necessary to hold out in major engagements, at least long enough to be able to ramp up to handle said engagements.
Basically, protect the people we’ve promised to protect, don’t allow despots to abruptly pop up, and keep enough forces around that we wouldn’t be immediately trampled in a WW3 style engagement.
That’s probably a lot more military than most Ron Paul backers want, but I’d focus on making largely a preventative force. Our mistake in the past ten years hasn’t been having a military, its been that we were over eager to use it, at least once.
WolvenOne on November 16, 2012 at 8:30 PM
IMHO, that’s plenty for everyone but Dumbte and the other perpetual freakouts.
The rest of us with libertarian beliefs would be perfectly happy with that arrangement – partly because we wouldn’t be protecting so many nations that do not deserve our protection nor reciprocate the costs in any real way.
What we’re facing is the beginning of an era where the USA is fiscally unable to play the world’s policeman. We’re doing what the Soviets were doing – overextending ourselves while the homefront falls to pieces. That is what we’re objecting to.
MelonCollie on November 16, 2012 at 8:37 PM
Look, I think most libertarians could get behind the idea of an efficient, well trained and armed defensive military. The objection is to having huge military bases around the world and getting ourselves involved in every conflict and disagreement around the world.
This will require conservatives to accept that the defense budget, like any other aspect of government, has a ton of waste, fraud, redundancy, and inefficiencies. To fix this will require a dramatic change in the corporate culture of the entire defense department. And if / when this happens, we will be able to grow our military capabilities while cutting costs.
Timin203 on November 16, 2012 at 8:49 PM
The establishment will have none of it.
Valiant on November 16, 2012 at 8:50 PM
Agreed, and this is at least in part what has all but destroyed Europe these past three decades. Playing the part of the worlds policeman has allowed most EU countries to get by with little to no military force of their own. This has made it a lot easier for socialist welfare states to spring up; when you don’t have that sort of expense on your back its a lot easier to justify paying for these sorts of things.
This in turn has hurt America’s capitalist foundations. Chances are we never would have been tempted to try welfare state policies, if so many European countries hadn’t tried it.
As for Isreal, Japan, and South Korea, not only are they allies we’ve promised to protect, but they serve as proxies to keep regional opponents in check. For example, chances are China would influence that Pacific a lot more easily if it weren’t for Japan, and Middle Eastern nations would come after us a lot more if it weren’t for Isreal.
So, keeping them backed up is, kinda important.
WolvenOne on November 16, 2012 at 8:52 PM
This is done how exactly? Ron Paul just preached another form of Utopia.
Mimzey on November 16, 2012 at 8:56 PM
Oh please. Things are so bad now that I’ve seen conservatives wish for the Clinton years. When you’re 1000 feet down in a hole, 100 feet up seems like Utopia by comparison.
MelonCollie on November 16, 2012 at 8:57 PM
I have no problem keeping them backed up, but I also don’t think we should be surrounding China with military bases, like we currently are. It sends the wrong message.
thphilli on November 16, 2012 at 9:00 PM
Watch what they do (once elected, vis-a-vis shrinking government, at most “slow the growth”), not what they say they’re going to do … and you might reconsider your premise here.
ShainS on November 16, 2012 at 9:02 PM
Especially when we’re doing it with money we’re borrowing from them…
JohnGalt23 on November 16, 2012 at 9:06 PM
Im quite skeptical about your immigration plans, Senator Paul, but I’m ready and willing to listen to what you have to say and immigration and more.
Jeddite on November 16, 2012 at 9:14 PM
Please what?
RP’s vision is exactly Utopian. It paints a picture where everyone works in unison, basking in the joys of individuality…but somehow, at the same time, works as a collective. Its a great fantasy, and I’m all for the dream. But thats all it is ..a dream.
My question stands.
Exactly how will this “new world order” be brought about?
Mimzey on November 16, 2012 at 9:14 PM
It’s called free men operating in free markets.
I shouldn’t have to explain that to someone who presumably calls themselves a conservative…
JohnGalt23 on November 16, 2012 at 9:18 PM
He’s got Ron Paul tunnel-vision.
MelonCollie on November 16, 2012 at 9:20 PM
Maybe. I do like Paul the Younger a lot more than Paul the Elder. All of the few things I like about the Elder, with the rough edges smoothed out a little.
Mr. Prodigy on November 16, 2012 at 9:21 PM
Indeed. They can pull the plug any time they choose to. It will be tough to fight a war if we can’t afford munitions or to pay our soldiers.
And I’m mystified by this notion, expressed by some above, that Ron Paul wants to entirely abolish the military. Ron Paul never failed to point out that national defense is the first duty of government, and he certainly took our treaty obligations seriously, as any constitutionalist must. What he objected to was building and financing a military geared toward fighting endless wars of occupation in Central Asian dirtholes.
Inkblots on November 16, 2012 at 9:23 PM
How do you get “surrounding China” from that map?
Mimzey on November 16, 2012 at 9:24 PM
Thats no answer, and it supports my claim…but maybe I misunderstood what your plan is.
Here’s reality.
The government bears no resemblance to a constitutional republic.
It is guarded by power structures and personnel who have established these sub systems over a long period of time.
How do you change it…I don’t mean how do you think about it…how do you do it?
Mimzey on November 16, 2012 at 9:28 PM
You’re obviously unfamiliar with Dr. Paul’s ideas. He never promised a utopia. He admitted there would be great, but hopefully not protracted, pain in the nation as bad debt and malinvestments were finally allowed to liquidate.
He was the first to point out that those who used addictive drugs were likely ruining their lives, regardless of whether it was a Federal crime.
The freedom to succeed is also the freedom to fail, and Ron Paul never failed to point out that those who could not or would not take responsibility for themselves under a constitutionally-restrained government would find themselves reliant on variegated local programs, churches, and charities.
But his vision was that, though a free society is by no means perfect, it is the best we can hope to achieve. It maximizes prosperity in the long term, and, importantly, is sustainable. Social welfare states and empires are doomed to collapse, but as long as liberty is respected a free society can endure.
Inkblots on November 16, 2012 at 9:29 PM
One mind at a time. By “tirelessly setting brushfires of liberty in the minds of men”.
Inkblots on November 16, 2012 at 9:31 PM
You are sort of proving my point.
You rely on “His ideas”…”his vision”.
He is right..only about 100 years too late.
It’s like stopping a cancer early…it’s doable. Wait until it is spread and wrapped around your spinal column and integrated into your nervous system and then it’s a different story.
Bad decisions were made, and now we are stuck with the consequences..not unlike the bad decisions that were made by people to sit out this election or vote 3rd party….bad decision. Now we are stuck with the consequences.
Thats just the way it is.
Mimzey on November 16, 2012 at 9:37 PM
Just like you relied on Romney’s! Oh what a CRIME it is to rely on someone else’s ideas and vision!
…idiot.
MelonCollie on November 16, 2012 at 9:39 PM
I agree with that.
In a generation or two we may be there..if the system can survive that long and endure the turmoil, or we are not overrun or destroyed by fanatics in our time of weakness.
Mimzey on November 16, 2012 at 9:41 PM
I have to disagree, here.
The vision is primarily a recognition that there is no Utopia. Individual liberty is the resulting default position. I’ve never seen it painted as “everyone works in unison, basking in the joys of individuality…but somehow, at the same time, works as a collective“.
The point is…government’s primary purpose, its sole legitimate reason for existence is to guarantee individual liberty, in full recognition that there will be losers. That we do this for the greater benefit to society isn’t a Utopian dream, it is from actual experience that all other form of governance has failed in comparison.
Saltysam on November 16, 2012 at 9:41 PM
You will get no argument from me that the systemic rot goes deep. It may be too late to return to a sustainable society before a systemic collapse occurs; but, then again, it may not be. The alternative to trying to fix it is to do nothing. For my part, I’ll be out there setting brushfires of freedom.
And are the consequences of Romney’s loss so bad? In four years, we will have the opportunity to nominate a constitutionalist, who will get the benefit of running against a non-incumbent. Balanced against the marginal changes four years of Romney would have produced versus four more years of Obama, it honestly doesn’t seem like much of a loss.
Inkblots on November 16, 2012 at 9:43 PM
Rand Paul is probably my ideal politician; a strong Pro-Life Libertarian.
Norwegian on November 16, 2012 at 9:44 PM
Thats silly imo.
There were two choices.
Who did you choose?
Mimzey on November 16, 2012 at 9:46 PM
That was honestly how I became a Ron Paul fan.
If I may be permitted to bore you with a personal anecdote: way back in the distant year of 2006, a friend and I were chatting and came to the conclusion that the ideal presidential candidate would be a pro-life libertarian. Searching around for such out of idle curiosity, I came across the name of an obscure Texas congressman: Ronald Earnest Paul. About half a year on, I discovered he was actually running for president. I signed on to the rEVOLution then, and haven’t regretted it since.
Inkblots on November 16, 2012 at 9:48 PM
It’s not about a man or politician it’s about liberty and federalism. Rombama was for neither.
MoreLiberty on November 16, 2012 at 9:51 PM
The problem is that we have more than one issue to deal with, and any movement forward has to take into account this fact.
We have been weakened as a nation, in the last 4 years in particular, and our enemies and are eager to strike.
If cleaning and repairing our own house was all that was needed, we probably could move forward rather quickly..but others are actively messing up the house and damaging our home and sabotaging our efforts. The really bad part is that the worse of these enemies are disguised as members of our family and living in the house.
Mimzey on November 16, 2012 at 9:54 PM
In terms of tax dollars, slowing the growth would shrink the overall size of the government, eventually. While I’d take that over what we’re doing now, this approach is too reliant upon maintaining power. You don’t really see the benefits until a decade or more down the line, but there are always lobbyists pushing for increased spending. Actual, real time spending cuts, are more painful and politically more difficult in the short term, but you also see the benefits within a few years, rather than decades.
The fallacy of the Ron Paul acolytes, is that they want to do things such as, taking ten government agencies and cutting them down to one. While that would certainly go a long long, looong way towards balancing the budget, and shrinking the government, it’d require those that believe in this platform to capture unrealistic amounts of political power.
To be honest, I’d be ecstatic at this point if we could get rid of even one federal organization. I also think that’s quite a bit more plausible. Getting rid of one or two organizations under the pretense of combining their functions would sound moderate enough to somebody in the center that you could plausibly sell it. You’d simply have to, slowly close down many of those combined functions in the following years to truly get rid of them.
WolvenOne on November 16, 2012 at 10:11 PM
Exactly. And that’s a large part of why he lost. When push came to shove after four long years of misrule, people couldn’t get as excited as we’d thought over “less liberal”.
MelonCollie on November 16, 2012 at 10:15 PM
He’s also a Southerner who had a full-time job before becoming a politician, is well-spoken, has the right values, is mainstream, can appeal to blue-collar white voters, has “Paul” as his last name, and can articulate a conservative/libertarian message.
Rand really has a lot going for him and 2016 should be exciting.
Punchenko on November 16, 2012 at 10:17 PM
I agree.
The difficulty will be the slander and lies that would be told against people making these changes.
Just look at the last election.
The demonization and ridicule did not only come from “the other side”…it even continues to this day.
Mimzey on November 16, 2012 at 10:19 PM
This is part of why I’m a big advocate of, “Thou Shalt Not Attack Your Fellow Republicans.” Regardless of whether they’re from the libertarian side of the party like Ron Paul, or from the more moderate wing like Mitt Romney.
Fact of the matter is, to different degrees they’re almost all better than the Democrats are now, and by criticizing people on our own side we provide legitimacy to attacks coming from outside of our party. Additionally, since we’re already being demonized from the outside, forming a circular firing squad only makes matters worse.
There are some exceptions though. I haven’t been very quiet in my criticism of politicians like Akin and to a much lesser extent Santorum. The reason for this is because, when somebody is damaging their own party and own cause they probably SHOULD be shut down. Suffice to say, from speaking to people over the summer and fall, the double digit drop in support for the pro-life position doesn’t surprise me at all.
Thankfully, I think from now on we’re going to be more careful about whom we nominate, in this respect at least.
WolvenOne on November 16, 2012 at 10:40 PM
Uh, to the east of China, we have bases on literally every island and piece of land.
thphilli on November 16, 2012 at 10:46 PM
It is amazing how civil a “Paul” thread is now that the primaries/election have passed. It seems that conservatives are doing some soul searching and even the naysayers in this thread are discussing ideas rationally rather than engaging in ad hominem/thread killing tactics. Better late than never, I suppose.
Ron Paul has stated, correctly IMO, that we have already gone over the fiscal cliff. We are arguing about the political realities of closing this agency or that, but the financial reality is that we won’t be able to afford anything whether it is entitlement spending, bloated bureaucracies, or overseas wars if things don’t change very quickly. There will be no more choices as we will simply run out of options in financial ruination. I wish that we still had the luxury of debating whether or not drastic spending cuts are needed to ensure the survival of this country. I presumed that conservatives were aware of this fact.
Time has run out and we are only starting to feel the effects. Things will get far worse before they will get better. “Incremental” changes will not cut it at this point. I wish this wasn’t the case but it is and conservatives have to stop deluding themselves into thinking that tinkering around the edges with cuts in the rate of growth as proposed by so-called fiscal hawks like Paul Ryan are lowering tax rates on capital gains are the ticket back to prosperity. That cannot happen until we make the “huge” cuts in government proposed by Ron and Rand Paul. No one else in the GOP, including Paul Ryan, has proposed a budget that actually addresses the gravity of our situation.
iwasbornwithit on November 16, 2012 at 10:50 PM