Report: Growing support among congressional Democrats for going over the fiscal cliff
They reconvened on Tuesday, but the election results presented a new set of problems. Republican officials familiar with the talks say Democrats dug in on demands for tax revenue that Republicans are not willing to meet. Democratic aides say Republicans who had spoken abstractly about the need for more revenues are balking at the specifics.
“Things change. It’s not just a matter of the numbers changing, and they do,” Mr. Durbin said of shifting deficit projections, revenue forecasts and spending totals. “It’s also a matter of the political environment, and the landscape changing.”
Democrats freely admit they have shifted their stance from the defensive crouch of the summer of 2011, when they signed on to a budget deal that cut $1 trillion in spending with no tax increases, to now, when they believe the voters have given them a mandate to raise taxes on the affluent…
Both sides insist they want a deal before January, but a rising chorus of voices, especially Democrats, say they would rather go over the cliff than accept a deal that raised too few taxes while extracting too many cuts, especially to Medicare and Medicaid.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Good. Make them own it. Paying attention, GOP? They don’t want a deal, so don’t fall over yourselves giving them one.
changer1701 on November 16, 2012 at 12:42 PM
Cool! I’m always up for a good disaster movie!!
You know like Earthquake, Towering Inferno…
oh wait, this is not a movie.
In that case, my message to Congress is simple,
GO EFF YOURSELVES!
ToddPA on November 16, 2012 at 12:45 PM
So what else is new. This has been their plan from the beginning. Bankrupt the country so those that have are brought down to the level of those that don’t. Their next step will be a big death tax.
reddevil on November 16, 2012 at 12:45 PM
Let. It. Burn.
JPeterman on November 16, 2012 at 12:45 PM
LIB. Let Barry own the double dip.
Illinidiva on November 16, 2012 at 12:45 PM
Ha ha. But they passed ObamaCare which has big cuts to Medicare.
Don’t forget that Obama told Charlie Gibson early on in his first term that he would even want to raise taxes in the name of fairness even if it wouldn’t bring in any more revenue.
Our economy is sputtering, ObamaCare and the rest of the regulatory regime is moving forward with micro-managing the economy and it’s killing lots of jobs. And Democrats want to raise taxes on people and businesses who operate or invest in business.
No doubt that if they get what they want and the economy tanks even further it will all still be Bush’s fault or Boehner or whoever. It’s always tails they win and heads we lose – if things get better it was their genius, if things get worse it’s not their fault but they’ve got a can’t-miss big government solution for it.
gwelf on November 16, 2012 at 12:46 PM
Of course they are. They know no matter what happens, the MSM will spin it as the GOP’s fault.
Therefore, give them EVERYTHING they want GOP. Explain it is a terrible idea, but it seems the people want it.
Let us go over the cliff. (Not the fiscal cliff, the cliff the economy will go over with MORE tax hikes added to the Obamacare tax hikes already in place.)
makattak on November 16, 2012 at 12:47 PM
Let them go, heads first, into the abyss, en masse.
They fully own it – just get out of the way and laugh.
Schadenfreude on November 16, 2012 at 12:47 PM
Bring on the Twinkie Brigade!
ToddPA on November 16, 2012 at 12:48 PM
Make sure everyone knows they want it.
forest on November 16, 2012 at 12:50 PM
I’ve tired of being beaten over the head by the tax debate.
Obama said “millionaires and billionaires,” so vote for a 39.6% rate on taxable incomes over a million. Protest it, but emphasize that Obama demanded it.
Then ask where Obama expects to get the remaining $950 billion (from $1 trillion) to close the deficit shortfall.
And tell the public to tell Obama to do the phucking math.
BuckeyeSam on November 16, 2012 at 12:51 PM
Why do you think the Dems will own the consequences of their actions?
They might but Obama wasn’t held accountable for his record the last 4 years, exit polls showed people still largely blamed Bush and thought Obama cared about people like them.
Too many voters won’t blame Obama or other Democrats – all that matters to them is that Democrats “care about people like them” and have an idea of how government will care for them.
gwelf on November 16, 2012 at 12:52 PM
Can someone remind me again why we didn’t go along with Simpson-Boyles?
The fiscal cliff is the solution, not the problem… but any pain will be put on the GOP and not the Dems.
The failure of the GOP to fully embrace Simpson-Boyles and beat Obama the heall with it will end up being the death-knell of the GOP.
ninjapirate on November 16, 2012 at 12:52 PM
Make them own it.
Punchenko on November 16, 2012 at 12:53 PM
We are all Twinkies now.
Scott P on November 16, 2012 at 12:53 PM
If I was Boehner I would tell Obama that I’d agree to any tax increases he wanted, however the budget must be balanced (no accounting tricks) so everything that “increased tax revenue” didn’t cover would need to made up in spending cuts. It would reveal the lie we have a revenue problem instead of a spending problem.
gwelf on November 16, 2012 at 12:54 PM
Not going to happen. We all know the media will say the dastardly Republicans put us back into recession to protect their wealthy friends from a tax increase.
ButterflyDragon on November 16, 2012 at 12:56 PM
The mandate is strongest in the blue states, target the tax hikes (caps on deducts for state taxes paid, lower the maximum value of homes eligible for the mortgage interest deduction) so the burden falls hardest on them.
agmartin on November 16, 2012 at 12:57 PM
Was this playing in the background?
Rocks on November 16, 2012 at 1:00 PM
We can’t go over the cliff if that means spending cuts. If we allow tax increases with budget cuts, when the poop hits the fan the narrative will be that the spending cuts are responsible for our economic pain, not the tax hikes. This debate is already happening in the European nations where austerity was implemented. The masses believe that less government spending is responsible for slow economic growth, instead of blaming the tax increases. We can’t let the same thing happen here.
HarryBackside on November 16, 2012 at 1:00 PM
That’s because they saw the poll that said the majority would hold the republicans responsible.
mrscullen on November 16, 2012 at 1:06 PM
What is with all of this “make them own it cr*p”?
If nothing is done, then everyone’s taxes go up, capiche?
I don’t believe in screwing ourselves over just to make a pathetic, meaningless point that will soon be forgotten by the ignorant masses.
Old Fritz on November 16, 2012 at 1:07 PM
Well apparently the public wants a “balanced” approach … tax increases and spending cuts. We know the spending cuts will never happen, so let’s give them the tax increases.
FORWARD!
darwin on November 16, 2012 at 1:09 PM
This works for me. I agree there is a mandate for tax hikes, and I think the Bush tax cuts created a perverse incentive for working class people by excusing them entirely from paying income tax. Tax hikes will slow recovery, but oh well, the people have spoken.
The advantage to the fiscal cliff is that the spending cuts are immediate, not in the illusory “out years” the Democrats always offer us.
Outlander on November 16, 2012 at 1:10 PM
The one takeaway I get from this election is that people are going to have to suffer real pain before they see the light. Not threats of pain, REAL pain.
When the Obamaphones get repossessed or there are no minutes left on it, then we’ll see some action.
NJ Red on November 16, 2012 at 1:14 PM
It’s always
Schadenfreude on November 16, 2012 at 1:15 PM
Yes, we’re well aware it means everyone’s taxes go up. But that’s what the Dems want, and that’s who the country voted for…let them see for themselves the effect of those policies.
changer1701 on November 16, 2012 at 1:17 PM
Cloward & Piven for the win.
Mycroft on November 16, 2012 at 1:19 PM
Real good time for the House GOP to work on their golf game. If they do nothing, sequestration happens, the Bush tax cuts expire in their entirety, and we hit the debt ceiling.
Good place to start negotiations from…
JohnGalt23 on November 16, 2012 at 1:26 PM
Progressives always move the goal posts and never compromise, yet Republicans never learn.
conservative pilgrim on November 16, 2012 at 1:30 PM
Part of me thinks this should just happen….
But….if there is one thing we know for sure.
The Media will make sure that the upcoming years finacial pain is all the Republicans fault because they didn’t want to just raise taxes on the “rich”.
The only way I see the Republicans coming out of this, with little the Dems or Median can do about it, is (but they still lose) raise the tax rates like Obama wants.
Their is another downturn coming next year….
And I am quite certain that they will pin the blame on the right.
MityMaxx on November 16, 2012 at 1:36 PM
Look at how the media is going to play the Republican Governors in the states where they refuse to set up Obamacare Exchanges.
“Those Republican Governors don’t want you to get healthcare. They want to see you die. Just so they can get back at Obama.”
MityMaxx on November 16, 2012 at 1:38 PM
Make them own it?
49.1% of the population is apparently on some kind of government assistance whether it be SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Tax Credits, or otherwise.
That number’s going to breach 50% in short order.
You think these people are your allies?
CorporatePiggy on November 16, 2012 at 1:40 PM
Metaphorically speaking, please give them that last shot and a beer chaser at 3:00 a.m. and hand them the keys to the car….please…
Give them everything they want, it’s gonna crash and burn anyway, better they do than we do it….
Tim Zank on November 16, 2012 at 1:44 PM
If the Dems think there’s some political gain to be had from letting us go over the cliff, they’re kidding themselves. They’ve got the White House. The blame will fall on them. If they don’t believe me, look at what happened to the GOP who DID NOT control Congress in 2008 when Lehman Bros. collapsed and took the economy with them. Their party still got the blame on Election Day.
Doughboy on November 16, 2012 at 1:46 PM
Let it burn. And let them be known as the ones who lit the match.
dczombie on November 16, 2012 at 1:55 PM
@Doughboy on November 16, 2012 at 1:46 PM
I dont know…
The media is not the friend of the right.
MityMaxx on November 16, 2012 at 1:56 PM
Vote present. Let them make the rich pay their fair share. ™ Let it burn.
The Rogue Tomato on November 16, 2012 at 1:59 PM
It’s got nothing to do with the media. If we go into a severe recession or depression on Obama’s watch, he’s gonna get heat for it. People aren’t gonna wanna hear mere weeks after he was reelected that he’s still blaming someone else for his own failures.
Doughboy on November 16, 2012 at 2:04 PM
Democratics will not even advance a budget. Why would they? They get everything they want with continuing resolutions.
slickwillie2001 on November 16, 2012 at 2:14 PM
@Doughboy on November 16, 2012 at 2:04 PM
If you say so.
But at this point, I have a severe distrust of our media, as well as our government.
MityMaxx on November 16, 2012 at 2:16 PM
They will blame the right for the destruction, the media will report it incessantly, and the sheeple will believe it.
stvnscott on November 16, 2012 at 2:17 PM
@stvnscott on November 16, 2012 at 2:17 PM
Agree.
MityMaxx on November 16, 2012 at 2:19 PM
Think FDR. 1936, 1940, 1944 he was reelected. I’ll concede that 1944 was about the war and not changing horses in the middle of it but 36 and 40 was still during the depression. 2012 just showed that the people really haven’t learned.
chemman on November 16, 2012 at 2:19 PM
Boehner should offer them a 75% tax on the total wealth of everyone whose total wealth is over 1 million. He go on TV on all three networks with it.
Guarantee they gag on that one, right there. That is what they’re asking for isn’t it? /sarc (heh play that up for the low info folks who eat that up)
Millionaires and Billionaires who earn over $250,000. We need to harp on that too, since that’s what the dembulbs keep saying.
dogsoldier on November 16, 2012 at 2:45 PM
October 2012, a new budget year (2013) without a budget.
No more years without a budget. Obama’s 2013 budget was voted down by the House and the democrat Senate. The Democrats would not vote for it. The House has SENT a budget to Harry Reid (Paul Ryan’s budget.)
It’s time for a budget. If there is no budget, no funds.
No raising the debt cieling.
No spending increases.
Let Obama run out of cash and blame republicans, he is going to anyway.
Fleuries on November 16, 2012 at 2:53 PM
suckers…
equanimous on November 16, 2012 at 2:56 PM
Rs should agree to tax hikes on >$1M incomes *but* subject to spending reduction benchmarks. A scheme could be that if fedgov decreases *actual* expenditures by $200M or more in a year, the tax hikes kick in. OTOH, if the fedgov doesn’t meet that threshold the tax hikes are eliminated permanently.
Probably some “emergency” clause would be required. But then that should be subject to approval in the next national election – if the people disapprove the “emergency,” the extra tax collected is rebated and the tax hikes are eliminated permanently.
The only problem is that Rs arenm’t really interested in cutting spending.
edshepp on November 16, 2012 at 3:07 PM
I, for one, am begging to let it go off the cliff.
Everyone remembers who the president was, when the stuff hits the fan.
Let the Donks cut their own throats.
franksalterego on November 16, 2012 at 3:11 PM