Tarnished Silver: Reasons to doubt Nate’s model
Silver has said a lot about the model’s theoretical underpinnings, and what he has said is all ostensibly convincing. The polling numbers he uses as inputs are available for scrutiny, if (but only if) you’re on his list of pollsters. The weights he assigns to various polling firms, and the generating model for those weights, are public. But that still leaves most of the model somewhat obscure, and without a long series of tests—i.e., U.S. elections—we don’t really know that Nate is not pulling the numbers out of the mathematical equivalent of a goat’s bum.
Unfortunately, the most useful practical tests must necessarily come by means of structurally unusual presidential elections. The one scheduled for Tuesday won’t tell us much, since Silver gives both major-party candidates a reasonable chance of victory and there is no Ross Perot-type third-party gunslinger or other foreseeable anomaly to put desirable stress on his model. Silver defended his probabilistic estimate of the horserace this week by pointing out that other estimates, some based on simpler models and some based on betting markets, largely agree with his.
This is true, and it leaves us with only the question of what information Silver’s model may actually be adding to the field of alternatives. The answer could conceivably be “Less than none”, if his model (or his style of model-building) is inherently prone to getting the easy calls right and blowing up completely in the face of more difficult ones. (Taraji P. Henson Alert!) It is worth pointing out that a couple of statisticians have given us a potential presidential equivalent of the Marcels—a super-simple model that nailed the electoral vote the last two times (and that actually is fully specified).









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Del Dolemonte on November 4, 2012 at 1:56 PM
Analogy fail, you can polish up tarnished silver.
You can’t polish a turd.
CorporatePiggy on November 4, 2012 at 1:57 PM
Silverfish is already starting to backtrack.
wargamer6 on November 4, 2012 at 1:57 PM
“Go away nerd.”
-Everyone to Nate Silver after this election
mattshu on November 4, 2012 at 2:06 PM
Nate Silver was also one of the people on Journolist (#82).
clearbluesky on November 4, 2012 at 2:07 PM
Not a phrase you come across too often.
Had to look up psephology. It’s the scientific study/analysis of elections.
Pretty sure it won’t come up in my Thanksgiving dinner conversation this year.
SteveMG on November 4, 2012 at 2:14 PM
Silver’s doing his ass-covering “If it’s R+1, Romney will win” stuff today. He’s Tweeting it quietly, but he’ll trumpet it loudly on Wednesday morning and claim THAT was what he was saying all along. Democrat hacks like him are shameless in their capacity to lie about what they previously said.
Rational Thought on November 4, 2012 at 2:22 PM
Nate Silver will go back to playing with baseball cards and himself after Nov 6.
bayview on November 4, 2012 at 2:22 PM
Nate is a wishcasting, optimistic liberal who made his bones in an election where being an optimistic liberal happen to coincide with reality.
It’s really as simple as that. Few liberals except the rah-rah cheerleaders at Kos were willing to believe that their —–y country would ever vote for a black man.
As for the claim that conservatives are in denial about his genius: show the math.
HitNRun on November 4, 2012 at 2:28 PM
Like I said on another thread, Nate Silver is backtracking:
So if the current D+5 national polls showing a tied race are off by a tiny % (likely), Obama’s chances drop to, er, 30%….imagine what they drop to if Romney wins by 2…LOL
I actually feel sorry for all the libtards who put their faith in this guy.
Norwegian on November 4, 2012 at 2:32 PM
Mass suicide in San Fran.
wargamer6 on November 4, 2012 at 2:37 PM
Nate Silver is backtracking on Twitter, trying to give himself cover if Romney wins. Saying that his model goes from Obama at close to 80% chance of winning if the national electorate is a draw, to 30% if it moves one point to R+1. An almost fifty percentage decrease. Rasmussen, Pew and Gallup all have the national electorate as leaning Republican, not a tie, too.
Silver is the liberals’ comfort blanket. That is why they cling to him so gullibly and desperately. Will be interesting to see them turn on him if Obama loses. Regardless, no one will take Silver seriously ever again if Romney wins.
TheDriver on November 4, 2012 at 3:10 PM
You are misreading Nate Silver’s “R+1″ comment. He’s not making a comment on the make-up of the electorate. It doesn’t mean “Republican +1″. It means “Romney +1″.
As in, if Romney is ahead by one in national polls VS the race being tied and vs it being O+1. Nate Silver has been writing about this all week. His argument is that Obama has an electoral vote advantage so he wins if the race is tied. His tweet is referring to his own article in repeating that.
agirlacamera on November 4, 2012 at 3:24 PM
I’m confused. Silver is saying that if Romney gets the most votes then Romney will probably win and if Obama gets the most votes then Obama will probably win?
That’s some strong analysis!
happytobehere on November 4, 2012 at 3:28 PM
Nate Silver has a meta-problem…and I think the Baseball Crank pointed this out…Silver has a data point of ONE! The Central Limit Theorem says that when N is “big enough” the sample universe approximates the normal distribution of the total universe. When is N big enough, usually if your N is 50 or >.
Right now Silver has predicted ONE election! His prediction than and now may be TRUE, but it is also invalid…we don’t have enough samples to know if “The Model” is truly predictive.
After Nate has run his model on 50 elections, presidential I would imagine, then we’ll know about it’s validity and predictive powers and hence its TRUTH.
Right now a monkey pulling one of two names out a hat could have succeeded just as much as Nate Silver has. The difference is Silver has “numbers” and a “Model” and ergo he appears more valid, more scientific, more truthful than a monkey pulling a name from a hat. But, until either the monkey’s N or Nate’s gets big enough we can’t actually say the Monkey isn’t as useful as Nate. We might believe it to be so, but we can’t make the scientifically valid case that Nate is better at predicting elections than a monkey with a hat…
This may distress Kunte and Gumby but it is nonetheless true…remember guyz the Phrenologists had “evidence” too, so does your local Palmist and Tarot Card reader, heck it was even “proven” Blacks cranial capacity was less than whites. Just because you’ve got a lot of numbers and verbiage doesn’t mean you’re telling the truth.
JFKY on November 4, 2012 at 3:32 PM
No. Silver has written several articles arguing that Obama has an electoral vote advantage and that this has a lot of influence on the percentage his model gives Obama’s victory, since the electoral college is what determines the winner.
So his tweet is just referencing that. When the race is tied, his model has Obama winning 80% of the time. (As opposed to 50%). And he added that when Romney is ahead by one in the national vote, Obama wins 30% of the time according to his model.
He’s not contradicting himself, is my point. He is doing the opposite. (Emphasizing the argument he’s been making for months.)
agirlacamera on November 4, 2012 at 3:39 PM
So Nate Silver predicts that if Romney is up, he has a higher chance of beating Obama?
*mind blown*
Daemonocracy on November 4, 2012 at 3:57 PM
I cannot believe how often I’ve been seeing Silver’s name on web site posts but I didn’t need to read further once Baseball Prospectus was mentioned in conjunction with Silver. Two laughingstocks of predictions if I ever saw ‘em. Silver’s election numbers are so preposterous I can’t believe anyone who’s not a blind-all-in leftist can even consider he might be right. Statistics don’t determine outcomes–people do.
stukinIL4now on November 4, 2012 at 3:57 PM
LOL, that is exactly what I have been thinking since all this Silver hype blew up. He hasn’t earned it yet. 50 elections would earn it.
Daemonocracy on November 4, 2012 at 4:04 PM
I know, right? Dude is some kind of statistical genius!
happytobehere on November 4, 2012 at 4:06 PM
I don’t see the point in arguing if Silver is right or wrong (we find out in just two days).
But I’ve been reading him for months and he has been very consistent. No “backtracking”. His tweet was being misrepresented and that is what I was pointing out.
agirlacamera on November 4, 2012 at 4:17 PM
I doubt Nate because he works for the New York Times.
joey24007 on November 4, 2012 at 4:19 PM
This entire thread bolsters the notion that Americans suck at math. None of you people seem to understand stats.
FAIL!
Capitalist Hog on November 4, 2012 at 4:21 PM
sure people understand stats. like stats in sports. they tell you that a player is good or bad (mostly) but its hard to “understand” stats when its a prediction.
a hockey player can score a goal a game for 82 games and therefore stats tell us that he will score in the 83. but its still just a prediction. stats are best for after the event.
joey24007 on November 4, 2012 at 4:27 PM
I like how you stick up for others and offer an insightful-retort.
Sharp analysis. Excellent reply. Thank you.
Capitalist Hog on November 4, 2012 at 4:43 PM