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Gas lines, gouging, and Sandy: How cheap fuel ensures that nobody gets any

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I\Gouging. Who decides.

In Kansas, day after the first 9/11, a woman paid four dollars a gallon for gasoline while across the street at a station with long lines gas was still under $2.

She complained to the Attorney General’s office and the station owner was charged with price gouging. The station owner paid $5,000 fine.

The woman wanted the convenience without the price.

davidk on November 4, 2012 at 11:02 AM

Steven Chu approves.

Transpo on November 4, 2012 at 11:06 AM

From the comments:

My heart goes out to all of you who is dealing with the gas shortage. I’m from Lousiana and and also have dealt with the problem of not getting gas after a hurricane. Now when I hear a hurricane is coming, I will go fill up 10- 5 gallon cans before it hits no matter what… I will never get caught without gas like that again. I feel for all of you up north.

Carol Rodrigue 2 hours ago 2

What? Prior planning? Self-reliance.

Fuggedaboutit.

davidk on November 4, 2012 at 11:07 AM

This would normally be a great opportunity to individuals that can haul the relevant goods in from out of state.

Count to 10 on November 4, 2012 at 11:11 AM

This is why Sam Colt and John Browning were born, to create an antidote to such messes.

Bishop on November 4, 2012 at 11:11 AM

Wasn’t Obama supposed to put gas in all those cars? And for free?

Left Coast Right Mind on November 4, 2012 at 11:13 AM

The biggest issue is / was that NJ has specialty gas blends that aren’t refined outside of NJ (for those who don’t know, NJ refines most of the gas for the region). CT also has similar blend issues. So while there is plenty of fuel sitting on trucks in PA and MA and other states, without special clearance from the govt (which didnt happen until recently), that gas cant be sold at NJ gas stations.

Also, giving out free gas and keeping prices cheap encourages waste and doesn’t follow the laws of supply & demand. If gas prices could fluctuate and independent truckers could bring in out of state gas, guaranteed every gas station would be running on generators selling gas as quickly as they could, and people would happily pay $5 a gallon to power their cars & generators and not have to wait in line for 6 hours (while burning gas) only to find out that the station has run out.

Timin203 on November 4, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Gas stations have an incentive to do that anyway. If they believe demand will increase, and they will be able to sell more gas during an emergency they already have profit motive to top off their tanks ahead of time. However demand will not likely increase. It will likely decrease. People will have already left. Price gouging happens because the only local gas station realizes some people will pay more for gas than it is worth normally, and supply less ( only to those with the means )

AsciiSillyQuestion in reply to PanzerDivisionBOM (Show the comment) 2 hours ago

Each of us would pay $ALL for food/water/air/medical care. We accept price rationing for these because we know capital creation will enable the production of more of these goods/services for all. In an emergency, however the ability to shop around is gone. Your ability to pay has nothing to do with the general interest at the moment. Therefore it is not a measure of ‘Essential’ that people in general should be willing to accept.

AsciiSillyQuestion in reply to PanzerDivisionBOM (Show the comment) 2 hours ago

It is in the general interest to respect property rights only if by respecting that system all benefit. ‘Essential use’ is relative to your point of view. There is no general interest in continuing to reward past success in capitalistic endeavors during an emergency. Money is an I O U. It allows resources to be allocated efficiently so as to create more capital. But that’s not important in an emergency. Efficient allocation of existing capital is.

AsciiSillyQuestion in reply to PanzerDivisionBOM (Show the comment) 3 hours ago

It’s monopolistic if you are the only source for whatever the item is during a disaster. It allows you to charge the maximum price people would pay for an item. What do you pay for food vs what WOULD you pay for food?. Demand usually doesn’t increase during an emergency anyway. If anything it decreases as many have left. However those who remain can not go to the next county if the local market is price gouging, or they would.

AsciiSillyQuestion in reply to PanzerDivisionBOM (Show the comment) 3 hours ago

Dangerous fool or useful idiot?

Count to 10 on November 4, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Wasn’t Obama supposed to put gas in all those cars? And for free?

Left Coast Right Mind on November 4, 2012 at 11:13 AM

The military is giving out free gas around here. Huge lines, lots of waste, lots of re-selling, and people who really need the gas can’t afford to waste half a day sitting around waiting for their turn to fill up. At that point, might was well drive inland for an hour.

Timin203 on November 4, 2012 at 11:18 AM

Timin203 on November 4, 2012 at 11:16 AM

You also better not show up with a tanker of gasoline that’s manned by a non-greedy-union truck driver. Keep your damn scab gas out of New York!

slickwillie2001 on November 4, 2012 at 11:38 AM

FEMA is an effin’ failure. From a comment at Battlegroundwatch….

Posted November 3, 2012 at 3:57 pm | Permalink | Reply

You will not read any MSM stories critical of FEMA, but it would seem that there is ample criticism to be leveled. Why did they just put out a bid for a humungous amount of bottled water yesterday, for delivery by the winning bidder on Monday? (And why are they taking 3 days to go through a bidding process in the first place, why not suspend the bidding requirement to get people water even if it’s not the “lowest cost bid” as demonstrated by a competitive bidding process?) Why did they not pre-position fuel in close proximity to the areas in NJ and NY where they knew the storm was going to be hitting hardest? Is there ANY doubt in anyone’s mind that, if the exact same things we see happening now were happening under Bush, you would have wall-to-wall coverage on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, NYT, WaPo and Time?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/02/FEMA-Still-Doesn-t-Have-Bottled-Water-to-Distribute-Finally-Places-Large-Order-Today-for-Delivery-Monday

what we learned from our local grocery store….

Kroger has shelves full of bottled water and two more pallet’s full they have no place to put. The factory that bottles Kroger’s generic water is in Lynchburg. In preparation for the storm they ramped up production to about 103% and were churning it out day and night. Two or three days before the storm Kroger’s shelves were almost empty, the next day they were full and people were buying and supplies were matching. Since the storm, because nobody here in central Virginia had water cut off, the shelves are still full and customers aren’t buying since they’ve got plenty. The plant in Lynchburg has water coming out its ears and is pushing trucks full of the stuff to various Kroger stores.

Janet, just give these guys a call. Sheesh. I’m sure there are other bottling plants in the same situation.

MaggiePoo on November 4, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Janet, just give these guys a call. Sheesh. I’m sure there are other bottling plants in the same situation.

MaggiePoo on November 4, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Never! The water contract has to go to some big bundler for Preezy Eye Candy! That’s how it works.

slickwillie2001 on November 4, 2012 at 12:06 PM

Anheuser Bush here in ATL is sending the water. They could have started bottling it a week ago. Not to mention, the Coke plant here, and Dasani. What an absolute clusterfark of badly managed! Heckuva job, Barry!!! Chris Christie demanded price controls? Ugh.

di butler on November 4, 2012 at 12:51 PM

“As an economist, whenever I hear the word ‘shortage’ I wait for
the other shoe to drop. That other shoe is usually ‘price control.’
So it was no great surprise to discover, after the electric power
shortage in California made headlines, that there were price
controls holding down the price of electricity to the consumers.”
– Dr. Thomas Sowell

Instead of calling it
‘gouging’, we should call it “Properly distributing scarce commodities.

Me 2012

esnap on November 4, 2012 at 12:53 PM

We go through this every time.

Higher gas prices are *good* in a disaster area. It encourages people to either 1) use less gas, because there isn’t any 2) leave 3) preferably both.

Far from stopping gougers from raising the price, if anything the government should be placing an excise tax on it to stop people from hoarding scarce resources. (Actually it would be better if the government did nothing at all, but that sounds too libertarian for the media.)

The people who complain about gouging are the people who, as Aldo Leopold said, think that food comes from the grocery store and heat comes from the furnace. Don’t be that guy.

HitNRun on November 4, 2012 at 12:57 PM

It’s monopolistic if you are the only source for whatever the item is during a disaster. It allows you to charge the maximum price people would pay for an item. What do you pay for food vs what WOULD you pay for food?. Demand usually doesn’t increase during an emergency anyway. If anything it decreases as many have left. However those who remain can not go to the next county if the local market is price gouging, or they would.

AsciiSillyQuestion in reply to PanzerDivisionBOM (Show the comment) 3 hours ago

Now, apply this 3rd yr college “Economics In A Socially Responsible World” theory to ObamaCare.

What happens when the only source of “healthcare” is the government?

We probably shouldn’t let them take on our medical care until they can show some expertise in managing responses to regional emergencies. (Don’t worry, I have no fear that would ever occur)

BobMbx on November 4, 2012 at 1:10 PM

My heart goes out to all of you who is dealing with the gas shortage. I’m from Lousiana and and also have dealt with the problem of not getting gas after a hurricane. Now when I hear a hurricane is coming, I will go fill up 10- 5 gallon cans before it hits no matter what… I will never get caught without gas like that again. I feel for all of you up north.

Carol Rodrigue 2 hours ago 2

How long before this sort of self-reliance is outlawed? Suppose the “government” discovers that Carol has taken responsibility to provide for her own well-being in a time of crisis, which has the added effect of relieving “responders” of expending resources for Carols needs?

Does anyone believe the government would not feel fully justified in seizing her property “for the good of the government”?

BobMbx on November 4, 2012 at 1:16 PM

The bottleneck is not at an inability to ship gasoline to the region so much as it is that there aren’t enough functioning distribution points. Even if someone found a way to ship all the supplies needed to last for decades to the affected regions, people will still have to wait in long lines as long as so many gas stations don’t have power to pump.

I’m against price controls as well, but I believe that Reason missed the mark on this one.

NorthernCross on November 4, 2012 at 1:56 PM