No, I don’t regret aborting the child I didn’t want
I have a family, a large family. I love my children with a passion, but I don’t want any more. I know this with absolute certainty. I’ve got other things to do, and I don’t have it in me to be a good enough mother to a fifth child. I delight in newborn babies with their delicate weightlessness, the curl of their small fingers around my thumb, but the best thing about them now is that they belong to other people. I don’t want to bear them, feed them, bring them up, be responsible for them…
Two years later, I’m driving upstate by myself. I look down and think that if I hadn’t had the abortion, there would be a baby seat next to me with a small child in it, resting comfortably, knowing it would always be safe because I was in charge. It might be a girl — I would have liked to have a daughter in the family mix.
But I’m not grieving over the absence; I don’t have and never have had a single qualm about not bringing that child into the world. I know many women who have grieved greatly over the children they decided not to have, and I am thankful to have been spared that agonizing sadness of guilt and regret. I also know many women who, like me, have felt only gratitude and relief at having been able to take control over their lives safely and legally.
Blowback
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I will say an extra prayer for you. You need it.
Hawkins1701 on April 16, 2012 at 1:06 AM
Assuming you’re right about who is and who isn’t a sociopath (I don’t think everyone who is pro-choice is a sociopath, but you may think different), you show your great empathy by disregarding their experience.
And yet you saw no irony in that.
lol
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 1:08 AM
I’m guessing I nailed it on the age/parents thing, didn’t I?
Again, stop with the romantic nonsense and talk to a pro.
- Love,
A physically deformed, wheelchair-bound burn survivor who is sick of listening to someone who can probably run and jump and ride horses and go kayaking and dance and shop for motorcycles and go to waterslides and who doesn’t get stared at by little kids in public complain about how tough life is.
rogerb on April 16, 2012 at 1:21 AM
Pardon me if I misread but you talk a lot about suicide Mitchell, and you sound as if you’re close to doing it. You say its selfish of others to ask you, or others contemplating it, to “stick around”.
Things don’t always have to be so bleak man.
You stay alive because better days always follow the worst ones. Think of what you may miss, or what others will miss of you, not of you missing whatever pain it is that might be afflicting you at the moment you think death is a better alternative.
SauerKraut537 on April 16, 2012 at 1:22 AM
@Mitchell
Best motivational video ever.
SauerKraut537 on April 16, 2012 at 1:24 AM
Well said. Nearly every married pro-life person bought or received a diamond. How you can claim to care about innocent life and buy a diamond for someeone is beyond me. Of course the reality is that its not about innocent life, it never has been. Its always been about trying to control women’s sexual choices. And before you balk, just ask yourself if you’ve ever bought, received or hoped to buy/receive a diamond in this life. If so, you’re a pro-life hypocrite.
libfreeordie on April 16, 2012 at 1:25 AM
And nearly every liberal idiot makes generalization. Sorry don’t have a diamond. When we married we couldn’t afford one, and 20 years later now that we can; I don’t want one, but thanks for playing.
melle1228 on April 16, 2012 at 1:28 AM
You make good points, rogerb. I wish you hadn’t been in that fire and none of that happened. However, you still value — and probably even enjoy — life more than I do.
At the end of the day, I — this guy devoted to objective science and reality — believe that a lot of life is purely subjective. And only an individual can understand what it truly can and can’t tolerate. It isn’t just events that happen to us, it’s also the character, nature, strengths and weaknesses, and values of the individual.
I fully concede you are emotionally stronger than I am. In fact, I hope you stay that way.
The last two and a half years have taught me, “Not always.”
I simply have a situation that, by definition, can’t improve. In fact, every day makes it slightly worse. Other people would consider it so minor as to not be worth thinking about, much less suicide.
But I’m not other people.
I will watch your video though.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 1:32 AM
libfreeordie on April 16, 2012 at 1:25 AM
The only thing diamonds are good for is cutting glass. I prefer sterling silver or tourquoise.
annoyinglittletwerp on April 16, 2012 at 1:32 AM
BTW, your sexual choice comes BEFORE you get pregnant.. Boff your brother, sister, dog- I don’t care, but don’t create another life and then take it away- Get it?
melle1228 on April 16, 2012 at 1:34 AM
Bought my wife moissanite. Clearer than the best diamond, sparkles more, can only be cut by diamonds, and without the ridiculous price tag. Told her long before we got engaged I wouldn’t be buying her a diamond because its just a huge racket.
Kelligan on April 16, 2012 at 1:37 AM
So you’re saying as long as you support abortion then those same diamonds and their associated deaths are cool?
You are so awesome.
rogerb on April 16, 2012 at 1:37 AM
The Marcus Aurelius quote is interesting, though I think it is referring specifically to a certain set of circumstances, that being where it is impossible any more to live a life of honor. I don’t say that this isn’t something that can’t happen, but that it is a set of circumstances that is fairly rare. (Such a situation reminds me quite a bit of the story of the widow and her seven sons found in 2 and 4 Maccabees in the Apocrypha of the Bible, but there are other examples, say of Daniel or of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednigo.)
That being said, your previous comment makes it seem as though you feel that you’ve done enough to ruin your life, and that suicide is the “logical” and perhaps even “honorable” choice. However, I would posit here that if you feel like your choices have led you on the path of destruction, now is probably a better time than most to consider those choices, before they do, literally, destroy you. I’m not offering that the alternative is easy, but you still have the opportunity to make choices here. If you’re upset for hurting someone, for example, it’s terribly hard to ask for forgiveness, even harder still to try to make reparations, but is one of those things worth struggling for, for the sake of both you and the other party.
Katja on April 16, 2012 at 1:40 AM
If it isn’t once excuse for ignoring the plight of the murdered unborn it is another.
NotCoach on April 16, 2012 at 1:45 AM
He’s referring to loss of virtues. “names” is synonymous with virtues in his usage.
I certainly have done that. What’s more, I’ve spent a long time going “into some nook where you shall maintain them”.
I’ve discovered that I can’t maintain them.
I haven’t even worked in almost 3 years. I’m a burden on others now. I can’t even be a good friend to others anymore, insofar as I don’t want to live.
But it isn’t just that. People lie and they suck. People are stupid and it sucks. I want to do this, but end up doing that, and it sucks.
Mostly I’m tired of waking up in the morning, gasping, and realizing the thing I can’t live with is very much real, and it’s still there.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 1:47 AM
Bullcrap. You’ve babbled on about “in terms of people” and “the species” and “instincts” and all this other mess strictly to establish that you are exactly other people and that you’ve got it all figured out.
You’re one of us. Nothing else. I don’t mean this cruelly, but you’re not special. $5 says a decent psych doctor would have you diagnosed and a course of treatment rolling within in twenty minutes of your first visit.
rogerb on April 16, 2012 at 1:47 AM
Waiting makes no sense unless you have one or more reasons. Trying to make preparations for those you leave behind? Bills. Will. Etc.
The ultimate point of nihilism is that nothing matters. Thus, any reasons you have for waiting are ridiculous according to the philosophy you’re trying to hold up. Emotions don’t matter. “Love” doesn’t matter. “Caring” doesn’t matter. “Morals” don’t matter.
You do have a choice, but we are only given one life. Better hope you’re views are correct, because if you’re wrong, you’re going to be miserable for a very, very long time with absolutely zero opportunities to go back. No second chances.
And yet you wait. That says quite a lot. It says that there’s hope for you yet.
Depression, despair and/or a huge chip on the shoulder. Reasons inevitably why people turn to suicide.
People who really don’t want to commit suicide talk about it a lot. They attempt it but never succeed. All cries for help, even as they rage against the help that people try to give them.
The problem isn’t the world or God, “Mitchell”. It’s you. You’ve created your own version of God that you can pigeon-hole with straw-man arguments. It’s an idol of sorts, just as much as you’ve made an idol of yourself. An idol to self-loathing.
The moment you can step away from yourself, and step down from your high throne, hopefully your heart will be softened and you will see the ironic, contradictory absurdity which is the screenplay you’ve been creating for yourself.
Nihilism says nothing matters, there is no point. Thus you really shouldn’t care about making plans for family, friends, estate, etc. once you’re gone. Instead you show that you really don’t believe what you’re preaching.
You’re scared and you have feelings, and that’s a good thing.
Logus on April 16, 2012 at 1:54 AM
Pro-natalists are sick puppies. They claim to be pro-life, but love to bomb countries, execute prisoners, and encourage people to commit suicide who hold views contrary to theirs. So much for being pro-life.
So, they are not “pro-life” at all. They are pro-natalists. Not even pro-baby. They are pro-fetus. And as soon as that fetus is born, then all the rights then go to the mother, and the state has no say. But before the fetus is born, the mother has no rights. I love how that works.
keep the change on April 16, 2012 at 1:56 AM
lol Actually, he said my situation is unusual, and not something they’re used to seeing. He diagnosed me with nothing, and couldn’t conclude my thinking was irrational on any level, including suicidal thinking (which has been de-emphasized as a diagnostic criteria for DSM-IV Major Depressive Disorder anyhow).
Regardless, DSM-V will have the proper diagnosis in its repetoire, and I’m more familiar with it than most psychiatrists are. It will be designated “Prolonged Grief Disorder” and you’re right — I’m not special. A certain percentage of people respond with total collapse, caused by grief that does not improve over time.
For those who do kill themselves (higher suicide rate than MDD, Bipolar, etc.), the usual pattern is to be unable to work (check) and look after oneself, to run out of personal resources (check), family resources (check), community resources (check), and then suicide at that point.
That’s exactly where I am. Within the narrow subset of people who respond to grief in exactly this way, you’re right: there’s nothing unusual about me at all.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 1:56 AM
Oh boo-hoo. I own diamonds, furs, and am not hardcore pro-life. Plus I’m a black woman of libertarian bent. Cripes, at least have a sense of humor ’round these parts, wouldja?
Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on April 16, 2012 at 1:57 AM
Accumulating amitryptaline. Waiting for welfare check to buy aircraft cable and a few other items.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 1:58 AM
Yeah my husband is a warmonger, so what. Guess what as a medavac pilot he hasn’t killed anyone. In fact, he spent his whole time over in Aghanistan saving people including little Afgani kids that from market places that were blown to bits by their own people. On a bad day, he is ten times the person you are. And neither of us like war.
Umm nope not pro-death penalty. I will make you a deal the first time a fetus stabs or shoots someone; we can execute it as well.
Nope, didn’t do that either- so much for your post..
melle1228 on April 16, 2012 at 2:02 AM
Two people did on this thread.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 2:04 AM
I understand that but you know I didn’t. I am pro-life and one of the people that lib and change are making generalizations about. Pro-lifers are half the populations, so to make wide generalizations about a huge group of people is ridiculous.
melle1228 on April 16, 2012 at 2:08 AM
That just isn’t true.
Anyway, I have stabbed myself in the stomach 5 inches deep, swallowed the median lethal dose of Tylenol once, and 2 times the median lethal dose of Tylenol a second time.
Talking about suicide is, in fact, correlated with suicide attempts. Previous suicide attempts are, in fact, correlated with successful suicide. Like most activities, it takes practice.
I see where my previous flaws were, including overcoming latent survival impulses in response to injury, sickening, pain, and the pro-life instincts that arise when life is threatened.
Hint: Doing it several hours of walking distance from anybody increases the odds, a lot. So does complex suicide — combining methods.
But you know, I didn’t always think about these things as important. Live and learn.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 2:10 AM
No, I disagree with some of your positions, but you were nice.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 2:11 AM
Well.
Now her sons know how lucky they were that they were wanted (or at least not inconvenient).
Or else they would not be here at all.
She’s 72.
Will her sons be there for her when she’s 82? Because, you know, they might have families, and have kids in school, and such and all.
And she might not be convenient for them.
Eventually she will meet her aborted child, who will tell her this:
“Mom, you decided to kill me because I would be an inconvenience.
It was your decision. Yours alone. You were not coerced. You had the choice. You chose your life over mine.
Choices have consequences, of course. You made the choice with the fewest immediate consequences – for you.
And now, the Father who loved me from before I was conceived wants a word with you about long-term consequences.”
skydaddy on April 16, 2012 at 2:18 AM
lol
LMAO
ROFL
Come on. You’re kidding me, right? You’re putting me on. Good one!
No, I believe you’re serious. I actually do.
Ughhhh! Why did I have to be born as a member of a species of insane, deluded, religious apes? Even I used to be insane.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 2:21 AM
Find. Another. Doctor. There are literally dozens in the world from what I hear.
My wife heads local SAR (search and rescue) activities . Guess who gets called out to stomp around in the woods in the dark for hours at a time? Guess who suffers exposure, breaks ankles, and gets snakebit? Guess who gets to recover the body (and you think groceries are heavy) and gets to tell your family? Guess whose crippled-ass husband could use her here instead of getting called out in the middle of the night over that sort of stupid stuff? Stop being selfish.
I’m going to go get my nightly reading in. Pratchett’s Discworld if you’re wondering. “I Shall Wear Midnight” specifically. I’ve enjoyed the witches best and the watchmen second best, probably.
And let me add “and can sleep for more than two hours a night before the pain wakes him and keeps him up until morning” to the above list.
What say you read those last few books that you’ve wanted to but haven’t gotten around to before you go? I’m sure there are at least a couple with all that big-worded rambling that you do. In between you can call and get an appointment with a better doctor, and then you can add some more books to your list.
rogerb on April 16, 2012 at 2:25 AM
Please don’t. Please, please, please. Find God. Life is such a blessing.
John the Libertarian on April 16, 2012 at 2:26 AM
I’ve never read “Anna Karenina”, but its opening lines are quite famous – “Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.” From what you’re saying, it seems like you’re experiencing this on an individual level.
One of the notions in today’s modern world that is incredibly destructive is the idea that grief, past a very limited point, is somehow unusual or something that has to be fixed. There are situations where someone will feel profound grief for an extremely long period of time, but the trick is not to let the grief eat you alive. (Regret is a somewhat different animal, but in many ways similar.)
You’ve said before that you used to be religious, but you’ve lost that. Religion for religion’s sake is empty. As I went through all kinds of despair, the only thing that kept me going was that I had known as a child that God existed. At 13, I figured that if He didn’t exist, I may as well end it all, but as much as it was a thought I hated, I couldn’t because I knew this thing I couldn’t “prove”. I balanced for a long time on that one, thin wire, and there were times when it nearly wasn’t enough. Yet I’m on the other side of that blue and lonely section of hell.
Seriously, if you have been depressed or suicidal for any length of time, it messes with your brain circuitry, and it’s a day-by-day, hour-by-hour, sometimes minute-by-minute struggle. For a nihilist, there is no sense in that suffering. However, I am here, all these years later, to tell you that the suffering is not for nothing. In this regard, I would have to argue with Tolstoy because I believe most people (or families) who are generally happy work awfully hard for it and have to do it in the way that is best for them.
Please come down from the bridge.
Katja on April 16, 2012 at 2:32 AM
You got trolled, SK. Mitch is a troll. He’s just the sock of another poster here.
Good Solid B-Plus on April 16, 2012 at 2:37 AM
Didn’t the “Mitch Heisman” character claim to live in a different country? Which country’s conservatives are ya’ ‘pullin the lever’ for, Mitchy?
Good Solid B-Plus on April 16, 2012 at 2:40 AM
I really tried to avoid it for a long time. But I predicted it would come to this because I knew myself and what I could live with and what I can’t, and this was in the second category. Equally, at some point many months into it, I figured out the name for it and looked at the research. I found I’m hardly alone and how I’m reacting to it is on one hand “abnormal” (as in rare), but on the other hand, exactly as people with extreme prolonged grief usually do. And the prognosis isn’t good.
Ah, but I be an atheist libertarian. I rather oppose the God of the Bible.
Wow, man. I just can’t agree here. I’m glad you see it that way, but you don’t sit there stunned in pain with your heart hurting for several hours a day most days for months and years, and turn to any number of things to just try to distract yourself from it.
It gets old. Really old. Especially when you realize time makes it worse.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 2:44 AM
I used to comment here under the nickname of Random (and still did, from my iPhone, until I cleared the cookie finally). I now comment under the nickname of Mitchell Heisman.
It’s more relevant. Plus, it’s in honor of him for his intellectual honesty, his striving for objectivity, and his courage in dying by his principles — unlike many philosophers who held nihilist views.
Under both nicknames, Random and Mitchell Heisman, I’ve talked here about these issues. I didn’t have one personality for one purpose and another one for the other. It isn’t like Random was super optimistic and opposed to suicide. Far from it.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 2:52 AM
Troll forgot to change his sock in a suicide topic. Rookie mistake.
Good Solid B-Plus on April 16, 2012 at 3:00 AM
The truth and you will never be close friends.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 3:03 AM
Me commenting using my former nickname Random on yet more threads here and here and here also:
There are many others.
Now I use the nickname Mitchell Heisman. It isn’t complicated.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 3:13 AM
Don’t blame me for your many failures as a troll.
It doesn’t matter which name you use. You’re still just a kid who has conducted a months-long troll that will eventually culminate in your “suicide.” You’ll give us an over-long, ‘thoughtful’ goodbye, curse that you ever had to live among all of us terrible simian dunderheads, and then leave to “do the deed.”
You won’t actually do it, of course. You’ll just stop posting here, then laugh as everyone sincerely grieves for the death of “Random”/Mitchell Heisman.” Aw, those wacky Christians and their regard for human life! It’s such a riot to see their tears of agony. Well, not “see” them, per se, but imagine them as you furiously masturbate. Ah yes, the tears of the passionately deluded! How they stoke your lust!
Look on the bright side, kid; most of the people in this topic still believe you. Keep fighting the good fight, Internet Nihilist Warrior!
And don’t worry, we’ll find someone very fitting for your e-eulogy.
Good Solid B-Plus on April 16, 2012 at 3:26 AM
Dude, I could never pull that off. I enjoy discussing ideas too much. Even if I changed my mind, I’d talk about it to those that cared. I could gladly have a conversation about changing your mind on suicide and being happy you did so. That would have been me, as it happens, ages ago.
But things are different now.
Anyway, as far as your hypothesis goes, it is unfalsifiable, isn’t it?
You say one thing that is striking to me though:
That is a fear I have. Suicide is much more difficult to do than people realize. I fear this greatly though because if I don’t do it, the quality if my life is going to be terrible.
But I do know for a fact what I’ve done in the past, so I have some reason to think I can do this. But “Good Solid B-Plus’s” thoughts about me aren’t nearly my highest concern.
To start with, I don’t think you’re a very nice person. You certainly don’t come across as a very insightful person. You aren’t particularly amenable to reason or correction.
But really, I don’t expect a great deal of mourning here. I admit, while I don’t think it will change the course for me, it is pleasant and comforting to see decent people who either understand what I’m saying and feeling, respect my right to think and feel as I do even if they don’t understand, wish me well even if it’s based on another belief system, and on and on. There are several decent people on this thread alone who I could name: Katja, John the Libertarian, melle1228, rogerb, and others I’ve left out and forgive me for that. It isn’t because what you said is less important.
But I’m not talking about suicide to goad them (and if I was, I’d properly be an a–hole, but that wouldn’t make them less decent in the slightest, nor should it be held against them — they could still hold their heads up high). I’m talking about it because I think it’s a perfectly decent thing to talk about and I don’t buy into the taboo. I refuse it. I think it’s harmful and increases suffering in the world.
I think it both increases suffering of those who want to kill themselves and find barriers in their way, and left-behind loved ones who have to deal with extra stacks of guilt and shame and anger because the mode of death was suicide. Not every culture or philosophy imposed this on people.
While I’m alive, I’ll advocate for a more empathic understanding of the nature of human suffering, and for people to be able to talk about it without the awful connotations our society has added to it, or the abject stupidity of certain people such as yourself.
Even if I’m pulling your leg, someone is suffering now and all the points I’ve raised on the topic — and the gamble of having children — are important for ethical consideration.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 3:44 AM
I await your next deep reply.
/sarc
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 3:44 AM
By the way, Mitchy-poo, what happened to all that fantastic multi-racial ‘tang you used to be getting on the reg? Did it stop raising your testosterone levels?
Good Solid B-Plus on April 16, 2012 at 3:45 AM
I’m not getting any. I stopped pursuing new women when it became obvious I have no future.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 3:48 AM
Lots of people are suffering. You aren’t, though.
Life comes with inherent risks. To most of us, the solution isn’t “Hey, let’s make the human race go extinct!” I’m glad to see you keep your extinction fantasies on a personal level, though. Were you a bit more testosterone-fueled, you might be the type of person who would go around and “liberate” a bunch of people from this awful, risk-filled world.
Yup. It’s the internet, so we’ll almost certainly never know if you were being earnest. You claim that your mode of suicide is likely to raise a few eyebrows, though, so it’ll probably be in the news.
Good Solid B-Plus on April 16, 2012 at 3:54 AM
You bastard.
Mitchell Heisman on April 16, 2012 at 3:56 AM
Suicide is no reason to stop dipping the wick, Mitchy. I think it’s only fitting to prep yourself for leaving this mortal coil with a balls-to-walls five-alarm orgy.
Good Solid B-Plus on April 16, 2012 at 3:57 AM
*sobs* The troll called me a name. I’m going to have my mommy call your mommy.
Good Solid B-Plus on April 16, 2012 at 3:58 AM
Informal survey: Who here was planning to have children?
How many of you have changed your minds because of arguments from Random aka MH, KTC and others?
Good Solid B-Plus on April 16, 2012 at 4:08 AM
MURDERER!
FlatFoot on April 16, 2012 at 4:14 AM
Mitchell Heisman.
My experiences is that people who really want to kill themselves succeed first or second try. As a boy my father waited until everyone else had left for the day weighted himself down and jumped into water deeper than he was tall. His older brother had forgotten a needed tool and return just in time to see him go in the water and jump in after him. My uncle succeeded in pulling him from the water and at performing CPR on his little brother’s lifeless body. Dad’s second attempt involved a gun and was fully successful.
If you really want to die keep swallowing the Tylenol until the pain goes away, if not start pretending and living like you are happy.
Slowburn on April 16, 2012 at 5:30 AM
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