Multiple factors at work here, cultural relativism, moral relativism, a Leftist hatred for Western civilization of which Christianity is a foundational part, and an opportunity to blame Bush and the wars in the M.E.

DerKrieger on November 8, 2009 at 8:54 PM

As has been asked before, what in the hell are muslims doing in the American military? That scares me more than anything.

KSgop on November 8, 2009 at 8:55 PM

It would be useful to apply the same standards

Good luck with that.

davidk on November 8, 2009 at 9:00 PM

I sure am glad that DHS and the FBI are focused in like lasers on the real terrorists… geriatric tea party protesters.

Lehosh on November 8, 2009 at 9:08 PM

Elite opinion makers do not, as a rule, try to protect Christians and Christian belief from investigation and criticism. Quite the opposite. It would be useful to apply the same standards of inquiry and criticism to all religions.

Heh, obligatory pap. No one in America has the balls to lift Pandoras lid.

BL@KBIRD on November 8, 2009 at 9:16 PM

Imagine the outcry

(from Muslims).

Everyone saying this is one guy and most Muslims don’t believe what this guy did is a good thing need to poll Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.

We weep when innocents get blown up in Pakistan. But I’d be willing to bet that a large majority of citizens in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran are celebrating what this Muslim terrorist in an American army did.

ThackerAgency on November 8, 2009 at 9:18 PM

I sure am glad that DHS and the FBI are focused in like lasers on the real terrorists… geriatric tea party protesters.

Lehosh on November 8, 2009 at 9:08 PM

As for me, I’m glad that Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews use the Nazi word to describe protestors as opposed to using it to describe an unnamed group of people who are given to screaming “Itbach al-Yahud!” on a pretty regular basis.

mjk on November 8, 2009 at 9:21 PM

The only chance we have as a nation to get through this time is for Obama to immediately apologize to Muslim nations around the globe.

mankai on November 8, 2009 at 9:28 PM

when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due (convert to islam), then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
-koran 9:5

Muslems have a sacred duty to kill non-believers, this so-called “religion of peace” only offers the peace of the grave unless you submit to its dark-age fascist ideology.

Rebar on November 8, 2009 at 9:44 PM

Only police offers from Boston doing their jobs properly commit violence../s

Caper29 on November 8, 2009 at 10:15 PM

No Muslim can be guilty of anything.

It would be racist and bigoted to say they could.

Only crazy people who happened to be Muslim can do anything evil.

The Muslim aspect must be ‘disappeared’ from the story.

Islam is perfect, pure, peaceful and pristine.

Forget all those Koranic suras (verses) calling for the torture and slaughter of uncooperative unbelievers (Sura 9:5, et al) or the total enslavement of the entire world.

That’s immaterial.

The Old Testament, now that’s the real bad news.

Let’s change the story to the Old Testament.

Quick.

Before someone mentions Mohammad “married” a 6 year old and raped her when she was 9.

Islam is so much better than you.

Shut up!

(Or it may have to kill you… for your own good.)

profitsbeard on November 8, 2009 at 11:14 PM

Would looking at a Muslim without an obsequious smile be deemed a backlash this week? Should we keep our eyes on the ground in the company of Muslims? How do we convince them that the memory hole will make this disappear in a week or so and to not be angered into radicalizing?

BL@KBIRD on November 8, 2009 at 11:45 PM

Well they are already saying that it will be a difficult trial and may take many months to prove his guilt even though there are several eye witnesses.

RagTag on November 9, 2009 at 2:43 AM

“Hasan just ate too many Twinkies that day.”

-crr6

Bishop on November 8, 2009 at 8:55 PM

Either that or he saw that ventriloquist with the dead terrorist say I KEEL YOU! one too many times. Yeah, that’s it. Anyway, Twinkies are kosher, so there goes that theory right down the mikvah.

J.J. Sefton on November 9, 2009 at 6:21 AM

Well, it scares you because you’re ignorant.

Please enlighten us as to why you feel all members of a certain religion should not be allowed to join the US military. Because they’re all terrorists or something?

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 7:17 AM

Their belief system is antithetical to the American way of life. We have fundamental freedoms built within our society that are opposed to the Shari’a.

Until idiots like yourself read and study the Qu’ran, you’ll never realize radical muslims are peaceful and tolerant, while regular muslims throughout the world are a violent, aggressive bunch.

MadDogF on November 9, 2009 at 7:34 AM

Please enlighten us as to why you feel all members of a certain religion should not be allowed to join the US military. Because they’re all terrorists or something?

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 7:17 AM

Clearly they are not all terrorists. However, do you think that behaviour is independent of belief?

A major part of Islamic belief is that a man who was an ignorant, dishonest, vindictive thief unable to control his lust for power, money and prepubescent girls, is an example of optimum manhood, the highest expression of humanity and a role model to be emulated.

If the admirers and followers of the Arabian Barbarian are permitted to have power and influence, do you truly foresee no problems, no conflicts and no cause for concern?

YiZhangZhe on November 9, 2009 at 7:59 AM

Again, I am sure most Muslims in the Armed Forces are OK people.
Sekhmet on November 8, 2009 at 10:12 PM

Interesting statement. How is it that you are sure of this? I mean, “most” would seem to implay at least 51%. What is your point of refrence for this being so? I am not sure of this at all, and in fact am less sure of it as time goes by.

MikeA on November 9, 2009 at 8:06 AM

Their belief system is antithetical to the American way of life. We have fundamental freedoms built within our society that are opposed to the Shari’a.

Until idiots like yourself read and study the Qu’ran, you’ll never realize radical muslims are peaceful and tolerant, while regular muslims throughout the world are a violent, aggressive bunch.

MadDogF on November 9, 2009 at 7:34 AM
——
ha ha ha carry on, genius.

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 8:15 AM

Clearly they are not all terrorists. However, do you think that behaviour is independent of belief?

A major part of Islamic belief is that a man who was an ignorant, dishonest, vindictive thief unable to control his lust for power, money and prepubescent girls, is an example of optimum manhood, the highest expression of humanity and a role model to be emulated.

If the admirers and followers of the Arabian Barbarian are permitted to have power and influence, do you truly foresee no problems, no conflicts and no cause for concern?

YiZhangZhe on November 9, 2009 at 7:59 AM
——
You’ve made a bit of a stretch there. The extremists who have twisted the koran to justify their mayhem and destruction are just as big a$$holes who twist the Bible to justify killing abortion doctors. It’s a huge problem that extremist a$$holes are running around without anybody putting the hammer down on them. Their religious leaders don’t have the balls to say anything against them, so it gets even worse. Extremists need to be killed one by one. It’s going to take years, so buckle up.

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 8:23 AM

I couldn’t help but be amazed at the insanity of this administration. And all of you above who equated the comments by the president concerning tea-party protesters and the DHSs list of possible terrorist as returning GIs are right on the freaking money. Check out this article by the AP.

Homeland chief warns against anti-Muslim backlash

ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates — The U.S. Homeland Security secretary says she is working to prevent a possible wave of anti-Muslim sentiment after the shootings at Fort Hood in Texas.

Janet Napolitano says her agency is working with groups across the United States to try to deflect any backlash against American Muslims following Thursday’s rampage by Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, a Muslim who reportedly expressed growing dismay over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The shootings left 13 people dead and 29 wounded.

Napolitano was in the United Arab Emirates on Sunday for talks with security officials and a meeting with women university students in Abu Dhabi.

First, if there was no wave of “anti-Muslim sentiment” after 9-11, what makes this woman think there will be one now. Maybe after two incidents of stateside soldiers being attacks by Muslim Extermists (one being a full blown massacre) she might want to look into preventing more murderous attacks on US Soldiers or anyone on US soil.

And this aticle is another indication that the US Press has slap lost their collective minds. At this point, we know that he reportedly had “expressed growing dismay over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan”. Oh, we’re sure about that. But they can’t seem to devine any other motives out of all of his reported behavior.

And why say the “shooting” left, when it was “Hasan” who left those soldiers dead and dying. He shot a pregnant woman. Are there no more monsters in your world besides we Republicans?

What is the power they have over you, liberals, to hide their intentions, to be accepting of their murderous behavior? What is this quality that Muslims possess that would make an important person like Janet Napolitano go and apologize for our imagined behavior after one of theirs murdered again?

God Damn It, you have lost your freaking minds.

hawkdriver on November 9, 2009 at 8:36 AM

You’ve made a bit of a stretch there. The extremists who have twisted the koran to justify their mayhem and destruction are just as big a$$holes who twist the Bible to justify killing abortion doctors.
Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 8:23 AM

What exactly is the ’stretch’ in what I wrote?

Abortion doctor killers do, I agree, need to twist the Bible to justify their deeds. Specifically they are obliged to interpret description as prescription and then extrapolate to their particular cause via a flimsy ‘logic’ and by relying on the most obscure and least reasonable of all possible interpretations.

The Koran, by contrast, not only describes violence but also plainly and openly prescribes and encourages violence against Muslims and non-Muslims for all sorts of reasons; no ‘twisting’ is needed. Quite the contrary, one needs to rely on obscure and flimsy interpretations of the Koran in order to conclude that Islam is peaceful and benign.

You paint a billion people with the same brush because …
Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 8:18 AM

Whilst it is sensible to refrain from ascribing the values of one self-proclaimed Muslim to another, it is also wise to note that Muslims as a whole have had 1400+ years to demonstrate the superiority they claim for Islam and yet, today, the kindest that can be said of their accomplishments is that societies guided by Islam have performed considerably worse than societies guided by any other widely-held ideology.

Given that Islam has had a wretched and miserable outcome for every society that has adopted it, how much Islam should we tolerate? Who decides which views are extreme and which are mainstream? Who gets to decide which Islamic beliefs are acceptable and which are not, and what should be the basis for the decision?

Where should we draw the line, who should enforce it, and how?

YiZhangZhe on November 9, 2009 at 9:11 AM

Essentially this comment is correct. But consider for a moment that one person saying this might be refering to Muslim extreamists while another might be talking about political extremists; and yet another might be talking about some sports fan extremists. Obama, for example, feels that conservitive Americans are extremists, and I suspect Dave Rywall concurs. In other historical contect one can see that tyrants have considerd intelectuals to be extremists.

In the end I do not agree that all extremists shoudl be killed, one by one or by the million. I think idiologies that seek to subjugate humans to serve the interests of other humans against their will should be killed. Islam is one of those.

MikeA on November 9, 2009 at 8:39 AM
——-

5000 French farmers driving their tractors to Paris to dump manure on the gov’t front steps is not extremist.

Bible thumpers screaming outside an abortion clinic are not extremists

Timothy McVeigh, abortion dr murderers, Bin Laden, KKK = extremists

Extremist = violence. At least in my books. Everyone else is spiritedly dedicated to their cause. They might be obnoxious, but they’re not extreme.

Obama thinks conservative Americans are extremist? Uh, no.

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 9:24 AM

Being a Muslim in America is no different than an Useful Idiot like Dave, or pimplesimian, or bleedsblue, or cr666 coming to Hot Air. They’re not here to be productive or debate the issues, or even enjoy the liberties of Freedom. They’re here to disrupt and cause termoil, because that is what their lives are made of. Children like Dave Rywall have lived their lives being mocked and ridiculed by other children and probably their own families… it’s all the social interaction they are used to.

ronnyraygun on November 9, 2009 at 9:30 AM

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 9:35 AM

I’ll Capitalize Anything I Want To @$$wipe.

ronnyraygun on November 9, 2009 at 9:41 AM

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 9:35 AM

I’ll Capitalize Anything I Want To @$$wipe.

ronnyraygun on November 9, 2009 at 9:41 AM
——
Ha ha keep smarting your smarts, smartguy.

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 9:43 AM

When Muslims, in accordance with their ideology, want to commit violence upon adulterers and homosexuals, is that extremism, or merely spirited and obnoxious dedication to their cause, or is it the provision of legitimate, compassionate and moderate justice as they would likelyyy claim?

Similarly, when people resist ‘extremists’ (whoever you choose them to be) with violence, do they also become extremists? Presumably not … but then there must be some criteria by which we decide that some violence is ‘extreme’ and some isn’t.

It seems to me that your argument wants for objectivity, is not grounded in rationality, and depends upon a moral relativism.

YiZhangZhe on November 9, 2009 at 9:43 AM
——
Religious people who twist the words of their magic book into justification of violence are extremists, regardless of the target of their acts.

Killing religious extremists is doing the human race a favour. That applies to all religions.

How many Muslim extremists do you think there are on the planet?

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 9:50 AM

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 9:50 AM

Tel us, $#!+ for brains, what part of the Koran is being twisted or taken out of context? The answer is obviously NOTHING. To this day I haven’t heard one Muslim answer that question with anything but another question.

ronnyraygun on November 9, 2009 at 9:59 AM

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 10:02 AM

That’s it? That’s your answer? Run away now you little Broken Puppet Troll.

ronnyraygun on November 9, 2009 at 10:04 AM

How many Muslim extremists do you think there are on the planet?

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 9:50 AM

I cannot give you a simple answer because I don’t agree with your definition of extremism nor do I have a similarly simple definition of it. Moreover it is a term I prefer not to use at all because I think it is too subjective and too ill-defined to be useful in these discussions. I wish very much that politicians and media commentators would stop using the term.

YiZhangZhe on November 9, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Then forget the label.

How many people are prone to/planning to use/have used violence in the name of Islam in the past 25 years?

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 10:21 AM

Again no satisfactory answer is possible because I simply do not have vast amounts of data about individual people.

However let’s try like this:
In the UK, there are alleged to be about 1500 plots of concern. Let’s assume all of these concerns are justified by the actions or words of the participants and let’s assume an average of 3 participants per plot. Then let’s assume that only half the plots are serious and the rest are merely youthful hyperbole or are not motivated by Islam even if they happen to involve Muslims (e.g. animal rights activists). That gives 1500×3/2 = 2250 Islamic ‘plotters’ from a Muslim population of 2.5 million or thereabouts … so about 0.1%. Given that people known to have committed deeds were not suspected prior to the deed occurring, and given that a good many mosques in the UK are controlled by groups known to have strong links to people that openly advocate violence, we could speculate that there are 50% more active plotters as are actively suspected and 10x as many ‘approvers’ as there are active plotters.

So we then have 0.15% plotters and about 1.5% approvers.

If we then assume that those who live to be old enough to plot (i.e. exclude infant deaths) have an average lifespan of 60 years, assume that the Muslim population has been constant at 1.6 billion for all of the 25 years and assume that the proportion of that population prone to violence hasn’t changed in that time then we get Muslims born per year = 1.6 bn / 60 = 26.6 million, people-who-will-become-plotters born per year = 26.6 million * 0.015 = 400K, total plotters born in 25 years = 400K * 25 = 10 million.

(This calculation further assumes that the values can be applied in the previous 25 years so the ‘plotters’ born in 2009 who are obviously plotting nothing at all yet, actually represent plotters born 20 or 30 years prior to the 25 year period and who became plotters during the 1st year of the 25 year period.)

However, given the elevated rhetoric and greater influence of Islam in other countries, such as Egypt and Pakistan it is possible that the proportion will be much higher in some other countries.

Furthermore, violence in pursuit of Islam is not limited to anti-government plots but also includes the hanging of homosexuals. It also includes government-driven plots such as the on-going carnage in the Sudan (which appears to be energised by Islamic as well as by economics), and the rape of non-Muslim women by Muslim men in Egypt (also done to propagate Islam).

So, overall the total for 25 years could easily rise into the tens or hundreds of millions but the speculations and assumptions behind the calculations are very ill-founded, plainly wrong in some cases, and in any case subject to a large error margin — so this ‘result’ is no more useful than a wild guess.

What argument or conclusion are you trying to lead towards?

YiZhangZhe on November 9, 2009 at 11:56 AM

Very interesting and thorough math on that.

I would have guestimated in much the same way but I would have landed somewhere between 500,000 and a million hardcore a$$holes bent on violence/have committed acts of violence who are in need of extermination. 1/10 of 1% of the entire Muslim population.

As far as the ill treatment of homosexuals or the poor treatment of women, that, unfortunately, is wide wide widespread. It will take generations before the creeping “decadence” and “evil” of the west/non-believers brings Muslim youth to their senses and they reject their elders outright.

Dave Rywall on November 9, 2009 at 1:08 PM