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“I didn’t have…that kind of sex with that woman, Monica, so they wouldn’t call me a philanderer” ~ ~ Bill Clinton
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 10:47 PM
yeah, caring about the people of our nation – trying to make sure that the economy doesn’t totally collapse and attempting to do everything in your power to minimize unemployment and suffering will be a primary concern of the president.
What a monster that evil qeorge w bush is. Huh platypus?
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 10:49 PM
On a serious not, if it wouldn’t be so devastating to my country, I’d have to laugh uncontrollably. Alas, I could cry 24 hours a day. Stupidity really hurts.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Either America will learn that government checks can’t solve every problem or we will become just another (poor) country.
zmdavid on December 16, 2008 at 10:50 PM
I would have at least managed a small shred of respect for our about-to-be ex-President if he “abandoned the principles” of kowtowing to his compadres in Mexico City and freed Ramos and Compean.
He led the country well in the days following 9/11, but has otherwise done all he could do to transform this into a bankrupt, third-world land.
The only reason I’ll be sorry to see him slink out of D.C. on January 20 is the knowledge that his successor will be, if possible, even worse.
Translates: “I’ve abandoned free market principles because I don’t really believe in them and am desperately hoping not to have a depression as my legacy and will do anything to just delay the meltdown.”
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 10:51 PM
What a monster that evil qeorge w bush is. Huh platypus?
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 10:49 PM
There is no such thing as a socialist conservative. You are either one, or the other. Make up your mind, wise_man.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 10:52 PM
I’m gonna need that picture of Admiral Ackbar doing a face palm onto his forehead…
I still respect him but dang dude… just GO.
Skywise on December 16, 2008 at 10:53 PM
“I destroyed the village to save it.”
ramrocks on December 16, 2008 at 10:54 PM
He will be remembered as the guy who gave the unions, the number one nemeses to his party, their big feather, 2 seconds before he left office, while they showed nothing but contempt to the auto deal negotiations – for shame!!!
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 10:55 PM
“I’m going to Kill you now, so that death won’t take you later.”
I am beyond words here. Bush needs to go gentle into that good night.
Forgot to say – the Congress showed the unions the finger, as they should have, in their utmost arrogance to change nothing, to give nothing, knowing that they are the number one impediment…and he plays Santa Claus.
Foxtrott Yankee, Mr. President. I love saying this, as I’m still free. In another time, in another country I’d have gotten shot.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 10:59 PM
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Asher on December 16, 2008 at 11:02 PM
I am rapidly losing all respect for this man.
W you sold out and took us down with you. Shame on you and shame on us.
All I can say is, whatever it was that his advisers told him, whatever the scenarios were, whatever it was they thought was going to happen, it musta been really, really, really bad to spook the President of the United States and the Secretary of the Treasury into such a state of panic.
Skandia Recluse on December 16, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Don’t worry, portlandon – you and the liberals will get their wish when George W Bush is out of office this january.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:05 PM
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:04 PM
I wish she would do it, put her money where her mouth is.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:07 PM
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Your right, the President does have a duty to the citizens of the country. However, that doesn’t mean that every idea they have to fix a problem is a good one. And this bailout-mania that we are going through is going to be a bigger problem, in the long run, than letting these corporations fail.
Troy Rasmussen on December 16, 2008 at 11:07 PM
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:04 PM
Sorry but I think Michelle went overboard with that line.
Skandia Recluse’s point is that you might understand why Bush has done this, if you knew exactly what he was up against.
The liberals have told us all that Bush lied to get us into the war with Iraq. The fact is, he was told what they knew, and he decided to act to prevent something worse from happening.
If Michelle was president, and had at her command the ability to save this nation and not let millions of people from being unemployed, she might even try to do things to prevent a great calamity to befall this nation. To make such ridiculous comments without the benefit of the same information that the president has, shows a great arrogance to monday morning quarterback this whole issue.
I understand why the president made the decisions that he did, and I have little to no respect for the liberals who claim that he invaded iraq for oil, or to avenge his paw, or to build up cheney’s halliburton stock, or because he was stupid, or because he was hitler or because he was this or he was that ….
and I am losing a lot of respect for certain conservatives who should be smart enough to understand why Bush is doing the things he is now, and the reasons he is. It’s like they are using the same emotional and biased, unintelligent lack of the benefit of the doubt for this as the liberals have – and they are in the same company when they do this.
and that really is regrettable.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:15 PM
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions Electoral Votes.
Asher on December 16, 2008 at 11:02 PM
Fixed.
portlandon on December 16, 2008 at 11:15 PM
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 11:10 PM
Yes. It’s really embarrassing.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:15 PM
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 11:10 PM
why did she go overboard? she’s obviously half joking, but come on… GWB, who I’ve admired for keeping us safe, has just socialized our economy faster than any Democrat could have ever dreamed. It’s an outrage and he deserves some backlash from the people.
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:15 PM
overboard = a message to george W bush on a gravestone. Throwing a shoe at Bush like the iraqi did. This isn’t that hard to understand.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:18 PM
I know he means well and we are in unchartered waters but I really wish he wasn’t doing this. This might be the first time I am hoping that I am wrong.
Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 11:19 PM
Don’t worry, portlandon – you and the liberals will get their wish when George W Bush is out of office this january.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Oh Please, I have liberal friends ( live in Baghdad on the Willamette River…Portland Oregon), however defending George W Bush any longer as a conservative is outrageous. National Security? He gets a 10 out of 10. Supreme Court Justices? 10 out of 10. Social issues? 10 out of 10.
Everything else, a strong 3.
portlandon on December 16, 2008 at 11:19 PM
wise_man:
explain to me why Bush is mortgaging our future again? for short term impact to save a few thousand jobs now, even if it means millions more lost in the future? principles are there for a reason, to guide you to do the right thing during chaotic moments when you are tempted to do the politically expedient thing. instead, GWB has chosen the politically expedient option, ignoring the constitution and the limited government principles he claims to believe in, and left us a legacy of socialism.
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:20 PM
You guys are a bunch of whiny bitches. Do you honestly want the Big 3 to fail? Because that’s exactly what’s going to happen unless they get bailed out.
I dont’ like bailouts either, but it’s either that, or the complete and utter collapse of the U.S. economy.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:20 PM
yeah, caring about the people of our nation – trying to make sure that the economy doesn’t totally collapse and attempting to do everything in your power to minimize unemployment and suffering will be a primary concern of the president.
What a monster that evil qeorge w bush is. Huh platypus?
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Evil? Monster? I’ll leave that up to history but I doubt he’ll be seen that way.
I’ve got news for you – the economy has already totally collapsed. GWB knows damn well that there’s nothing behind the dollars he’s letting them spend except unborn children’s willingness to pay a bill they didn’t incur.
It’s all Monopoly money now except that the debt needs to be paid with real people’s labor.
But WTF do we care? We’ll all be dead and gone by then. Won’t bother us a bit to hate America’s children.
Come to think of it – we hate them now. That’s why abortion is legal. Might as well nail the ones we don’t slaughter in the womb. Fairness and all that.
Bush lied about being conservative. That makes him no better than McLame.
I hope the door hits him in the a$$ and knocks some sense into his brain. Maybe then he could possibly apologize for slandering conservatives.
platypus on December 16, 2008 at 11:21 PM
In case my other comment doesn’t get posted:
You guys are a bunch of whiny babies. Do you honestly want the Big 3 to fail? Because that’s exactly what’s going to happen unless they get bailed out.
I don’t like bailouts either, but it’s either that or the complete and utter collapse of the U.S. economy. You choose.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:22 PM
wise_man:
if you didn’t read her post, go back, it says “political epitaph” not literal.
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:22 PM
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Thankful,
wise_man explains why it is overboard. The gravestone. The hurling a shoe at someone. It just all seems mean-spirited.
thankful, if you knew the same things that Bush knows about this, then you would understand why he is doing this, the real possibilities and consequences if this were not done, and why your uneducated opinion of the results is not in line with a realistic assessment.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:23 PM
I protest this action by Bush in the strongest terms. 90% of my staff now wants to go to America to fill the high paying central planning jobs that are opening up there. Mother Russia will be lost without them. This will mean a return to the cold war for sure. I may have to occupy Georgia again and even Alabama if this employee raiding of my central planners does not cease.
PootyPoot on December 16, 2008 at 11:25 PM
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:22 PM
I was under no illusion that she actually created a grave stone with this message and took a photograph. THat is irrelevant.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:25 PM
What’s important to understand is that, once in a while, we get a poster who defends or ignores the liberal actions of people who claim to be conservative, and uses the ironic tactic of calling the people who bring it up “liberal”.
Get it yet? People who are complaining about liberal policies are called liberal, while the politicians who enact liberal policies are defended as conservative.
It all makes sense, from that occasional posters’ point of view.
And she has every reason to be angry, terryannonline. But she also has a responsibility. And she has been lacking as of late. And again, this is distressing to see. It’s irresponsible and self-indulgent. I respect Michelle a lot. But this is veering into Ann Coulter territory.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:28 PM
Nickj116:
Don’t buy into the doom and gloom scenarios that Bush/Paulson/Pelosi/Reid have sold you. America will survive without the Big 3, even though its unlikely they would ever truly fail. If we don’t bail them out, they will file bankruptcy and survive. And if one or more of them didn’t, well that’s called freedom. Freedom to succeed, freedom to fail. And as they died off, another auto maker would pop up to take its place and offer new jobs. Because people will still need cars. Supply and demand.
America can handle auto makers falling and a bad turn in the housing market. Can it handle socializing the financial industry and part of the manufacturing industry? Not sure. I don’t want a government bank account, a government loan or have to drive a government car designed by Nancy Pelosi. That’s what Bush is leaving us with.
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:28 PM
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Three companies fail and it’s, “the complete and utter collapse of the U.S. economy?” LOL
You are delusional. Businesses fail all the time, and here is a news flash for you, NO business is too big to fail. Some other company will come in and take advantage of the situation and the “crisis” wave will ripple until the “crisis” is over.
Troy Rasmussen on December 16, 2008 at 11:29 PM
LOL @ the MadisonConservative troll.
Eat manure and assume room temperature you POS.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:29 PM
Do you honestly want the Big 3 to fail? Because that’s exactly what’s going to happen unless they get bailed out.
I don’t like bailouts either, but it’s either that or the complete and utter collapse of the U.S. economy. You choose.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Oh puh-leeze!
Fail = Bankruptcy, not disappearance. What do you think happens to the assets? If the company gets liquidated, the assets get sold to a similar company that isn’t in trouble. If the company doesn’t fail, it gets restructured and business goes on.
The economy is collapsed for a lot of reasons but insufficient capital funding is not one of those reasons.
Insufficient capital management skills are.
platypus on December 16, 2008 at 11:30 PM
Sorry but I think Michelle went overboard with that line.
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 11:10 PM
Newt is on the line.
wise_man, on security and the war, you are right. On this, there is nothing he knows that we don’t know. Your attempt to insult others with your “superior” and holier than thou attitude is silly when all you see is socialism, and you are blinded by what his actions will achieve.
They are worse than Obama’s, so far. That’s not to say that the One won’t take it further, having been thrown the ball…by GWB, the conservative ‘capitalist’. Our country is scroomed from the left to the right, that is the only reality. You can like it or not. Others who see it clearly are not dumb, just because you deem them to be so.
terryannonline, the sooner you get very informed, and mature, the freer your entire life will be. Otherwise you will be hampered, forever.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 11:30 PM
So george W bush is a liberal, right? Just like john mccain, that evil traitor who votes with conservative 80 of the time, and the glass is 80 percent full.
Come on, I want to here more from you about how george w bush is more liberal that barack obama, you real conservative you
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:31 PM
terryannonline, the sooner you get very informed, and mature, the freer your entire life will be. Otherwise you will be hampered, forever.
What are you talking about? More informed about what?
Three companies that employ hundreds of thousands of people, btw, and who put cars on the roads.
But I’m delusional. Ok.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:33 PM
It is possible, Entelechy that what gorge w bush knows is much more than what we know. And to believe that george w bush has finally shown his true colors as a rotten liberal, and is doing this to damn america with his socialism is to also beleive the same lies that the left has made about bush for 8 years.
you believe what ever you want about bush. he’s a rotten liberal socialist. fine. whatever
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:33 PM
Come on, I want to here more from you about how george w bush is more liberal that barack obama, you real conservative you
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:31 PM
If someone is more conservative than Barack Obama we have to fall in lockstep behind them? That’s the toughest standard you can come up with?
joewm315 on December 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM
nd as they died off, another auto maker would pop up to take its place and offer new jobs.
Yeah, in Japan.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:29 PM
Excuse me, but I didn’t see an argument. Was anything I said inaccurate? Did you not defend liberal actions by a politician claiming to be conservative by calling the critic liberal? I mean…dude. That’s just mind-boggling in terms of being asinine. I’m really seeing that you just invest your heart into some men like Bush and McCain, and when they disappoint you, instead of facing the fact that they are flawed, you turn your disappointment and frustration on those who point out what you don’t want to face, be it posters here or major conservative figures like Michelle Malkin.
You are having another panic attack. I was afraid you would stop taking your prosac.
Sigmund on December 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM
obviously joewm315 you have no clue what you are talking about.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM
lol @ the troll again
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Come on, I want to here more from you about how george w bush is more liberal that barack obama, you real conservative you
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:31 PM
You call us liberals for complaining about liberal policies. Explain that with any semblance of logic. Why would liberals be upset about liberal policies?
obviously joewm315 you have no clue what you are talking about.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Obviously you haven’t finished your two-month long hissy fit, so carry on.
joewm315 on December 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM
If the company gets liquidated, the assets get sold to a similar company that isn’t in trouble
What American auto company isn’t it trouble?
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:36 PM
wise_man explains why it is overboard. The gravestone. The hurling a shoe at someone. It just all seems mean-spirited.
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Eat manure and assume room temperature you POS.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:29 PM
terry, do you think this is…mean-spirited?
More informed about what?
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 11:32 PM
Free markets, capitalism, socialism. Michelle knows exactly why she posted that. It takes malkins to do that. She has them.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 11:36 PM
You call us liberals
LOL @ the fail troll
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:36 PM
lol @ the troll again
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Quit laughing like a drunk and explain your twisted logic. If we are really liberals, as you say, why would we be upset only about the liberal policies put forward by “conservatives” such as Bush and McCain?
it takes no ‘malkins’ to write something on a computer. again, put the money where the mouth is.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:37 PM
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:36 PM
look at that, the energizer bunny troll keeps going, and going, and going …
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:38 PM
If we are really liberals, as you say,
again with the projection.
WHY EVEN POST??
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:38 PM
You guys are a bunch of whiny babies. Do you honestly want the Big 3 to fail? Because that’s exactly what’s going to happen unless they get bailed out.
Just like Delta Airlines? Oh, wait…I flew them back from Tokyo last month.
The Big 3 might go into bankruptcy, make some tough choices, reorganize and keep working, but they won’t “fail”.
If it’s so bad that they will disappear unless they get millions of tax dollars, then they are doomed already. If the fuse is already lit, get the hell out of the way. Otherwise you just get burned.
Asher on December 16, 2008 at 11:39 PM
look at that, the energizer bunny troll keeps going, and going, and going …
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Answer the question. It’s a fair, straightforward question. If we are really liberals, as you say, why would we be upset only about the liberal policies put forward by “conservatives” such as Bush and McCain?
They are worse than Obama’s, so far. That’s not to say that the One won’t take it further, having been thrown the ball…by GWB, the conservative ‘capitalist’. Our country is scroomed from the left to the right, that is the only reality.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 11:30 PM
History may be repeating itself, first as tragedy with Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin, and now as farce with George W. Bush in the place of Karl Marx and Barack H. Obama potentially in the place of Vladimir Lenin.
Tav on December 16, 2008 at 11:39 PM
you believe what ever you want about bush. he’s a rotten liberal socialist. fine. whatever
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:33 PM
Belief is only when the facts are unknown. I don’t believe W is a liberal – I see it.
And if advisers advised him to “go liberal” and he listened, then either (1) he’s not conservative or (2) they are really handlers.
Either way, he’s run up against a major truth that is on every Hell’s Angel business card:
“When we do right no one remembers. When we do wrong no one forgets.”
platypus on December 16, 2008 at 11:40 PM
Asher: If the fuse is already lit, get the hell out of the way. Otherwise you just get burned
Yeah! Screw all of their employees! They deserve to get canned!
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:40 PM
terry, do you think this is…mean-spirited?
Yes I do.
Free markets, capitalism, socialism. Michelle knows exactly why she posted that. It takes malkins to do that. She has them.
Look I’ll just drop it. Obviously, not everyone agrees on everything. I’m just stated my opinion. We have speech in this country. Michelle can post whatever she wants on her Web site and I’ll have opinions. No big deal
lying is like breathing to you. I said nothign of the kind. you are pathetic. drop dead, so i can compose a witty gravestone message for you. thats all your good for
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Do you honestly want the Big 3 to fail? Because that’s exactly what’s going to happen unless they get bailed out.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:20 PM
It’s not a matter of “want”. They have failed. The question is should we steal Americans’ money to reward failure while preventing three new fresh start American automakers to take their place. If the argument is that something new can’t grow in place of the old and dying, then America and the American Dream is already dead.
Buddahpundit on December 16, 2008 at 11:44 PM
I said nothign of the kind.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Yes, you did.
you real conservative you
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:31 PM
Any three year old knows the implication of that statement.
What is embarrassing is that a ‘conservative’ president lets the unions skate free, at the hourly rates and retirement money they have, while the rest of us should bail out them, the companies, including their executives, form whom the same Bush admin. slipt in a last line to allow them the excruciating balloon payments when they retire, while a liberal Congress was opposed. Get informed and then come back and whine at us. To be called “unintelligent” by you is a compliment.
it takes no ‘malkins’ to write something on a computer. again, put the money where the mouth is.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:37 PM
She went to Iraq. I don’t think you did, nor should you have to. Since when are we, all of us, not allowed to write anything? You can agree or disagree. Your holiness and unaccountable “love” for GWB is truly unnerving. He did great at keeping us free, and I’ll always give him that. Otherwise, one disappointment after the other. To see that doesn’t make one a lesser person than you are. You also never saw anything wrong with McCain, who turne out to be a post-election disaster, even though I stood with you for him, as the One is an even bigger one.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 11:45 PM
Yes, because new car companies in America will come in and take over
Who? People keep saying “screw the big 3 because other companies will take over” but no one is saying who these companies are. You can’t just blindly talk nonsense.
Oh wait, I guess you can.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:45 PM
question is should we steal Americans’ money to reward failure
Um, it’s not rewarding failure. And btw, our taxpayer money goes to a lot more stupid things than bailing out auto companies that provide hundreds of thousands of jobs and put American cars on the road.
Just FYI.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:47 PM
To be called “unintelligent” by you is a compliment.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 11:45 PM
Take that, and save yourself some further keystrokes, unless you have fun watching him squirm.
Quit laughing like a drunk and explain your twisted logic. If we are really liberals, as you say, why would we be upset only about the liberal policies put forward by “conservatives” such as Bush and McCain?
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:36 PM
In wise_man’s world everything is nonsense. Nothing is what it is because everything is what it isn’t. And contrary-wise; what it is, it isn’t, and what it isn’t, it is. You see?
Cheshire Cat on December 16, 2008 at 11:48 PM
Michelle can post whatever she wants on her Web site and I’ll have opinions. No big deal
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 11:41 PM
I can toast to that
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 11:48 PM
Who? People keep saying “screw the big 3 because other companies will take over” but no one is saying who these companies are. You can’t just blindly talk nonsense.
Oh wait, I guess you can.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:45 PM
You’re right. If the big three go down, there will be no car companies in America. No one will realize the market share. No one will invest in engineering. No one will look for competitive advantage gained in domestic car manufacturing.
Now let’s talk about blindly talking nonsense. More accurately, let’s talk about American business initiative, and how many industries have died just because the juggernauts fell. Good lord, man.
And if advisers advised him to “go liberal” and he listened, then either (1) he’s not conservative or (2) they are really handlers.
I see. ‘go liberal.’ and yet:
During the 1980 presidential campaign, Ronald Reagan also wavered on the bailout question, first criticizing President Jimmy Carter for his decision to guarantee loans to the ailing Chrysler automobile company before later, during a speech in Detroit, calling the bailout “a proper answer.” Reagan biographer Lou Cannon, writing in the Washington Post, called Reagan’s shift “an effort to reposition [Reagan] as a born-again New Dealer sympathetic to the plight of blue-collar workers pinched by unemployment and inflation.”
and the savings and loan bail out. As well as
In 1986, Reagan signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA). The act made it illegal to knowingly hire or recruit illegal immigrants, required employers to attest to their employees’ immigration status, and granted amnesty to approximately 3 million illegal immigrants who entered the United States prior to January 1, 1982 and had lived in the country continuously.
So is Ronald Reagan a liberal? I don’t think so.
some times people do things that are necessary. and good men dont need to be called idiotic things by idiotic people.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:50 PM
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:45 PM
screw you, a*hole troll.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:51 PM
If the company gets liquidated, the assets get sold to a similar company that isn’t in trouble
She went to Iraq.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 11:45 PM
Yes she did. ANd this is irrelevant to the talk of hurling a shoe at the president. Maybe she should put her money where her mouth is.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:52 PM
I have nothing left for Bush but contempt! He aught to pay a ghost-writer to write a book for him and go on a world tour with Jimma Carter. I hear Jimma’s looking for an assistant to carry his bags.
FloatingRock on December 16, 2008 at 11:52 PM
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:47 PM
F*k you a*hole troll. Seriously, drop dead you f*k.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:53 PM
You’re right. If the big three go down, there will be no car companies in America. No one will realize the market share. No one will invest in engineering. No one will look for competitive advantage gained in domestic car manufacturing.
You think that’ll happen immediately? I mean, if you want to wait for all that to happen while our unemployment rate skyrockets and our economy continues to tank, then be my guest. I’d go another route.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:53 PM
screw you, a*hole troll.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:51 PM
You’re a coward, you won’t answer a direct question, and you won’t back up your words. You defend the liberal actions of conservatives because you’re afraid to admit the men you admire are flawed. Your weakness and apathetic attitude has contributed to the current state of the political climate, and the state of the GOP, may it rest in peace.
F*k you a*hole troll. Seriously, drop dead you f*k.
And things just blew up, ladies and gentlemen.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:54 PM
FloatingRock on December 16, 2008 at 11:52 PM
typical. the bile from the trolls has reached critical mass and this page is now a cesspool. buh bye.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:54 PM
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:54 PM
you make crap up and lie as easily as you take breath. f*k you and die.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 PM
F*k you a*hole troll. Seriously, drop dead you f*k.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:53 PM
You’re pathetic, Wise_man.
FloatingRock on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 PM
buh bye.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:54 PM
Good riddance.
FloatingRock on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 PM
You think that’ll happen immediately? I mean, if you want to wait for all that to happen while our unemployment rate skyrockets and our economy continues to tank, then be my guest. I’d go another route.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:53 PM
If all you’re interested in is immediate results, never EVER start a business, please. You’ll have a heart attack within a month. What you’re suggesting is the continued pouring of money into a floundering business structure which will only forestall inevitable collapse. The question is how big we want the bill for the collapse to be. It will be smaller if we let it go now.
The question is how big we want the bill for the collapse to be. It will be smaller if we let it go now.
Really? And you’re the one talking about American ingenuity? I guess that applies to everyone EXCEPT the Big 3 huh?
nickj116 on December 17, 2008 at 12:01 AM
Really? And you’re the one talking about American ingenuity? I guess that applies to everyone EXCEPT the Big 3 huh?
nickj116 on December 17, 2008 at 12:01 AM
American ingenuity includes the little caveat of “If you fail, you’re supposed to start over, not have your failure kept on the edge of oblivion by taxpayer funding.”
Really? And you’re the one talking about American ingenuity? I guess that applies to everyone EXCEPT the Big 3 huh?
nickj116 on December 17, 2008 at 12:01 AM
All the major Japanese car makers manufacture their cars here and sell them here. They are as American as GM.
And they are making money. Big time.
platypus on December 17, 2008 at 12:11 AM
Really? And you’re the one talking about American ingenuity? I guess that applies to everyone EXCEPT the Big 3 huh?
nickj116 on December 17, 2008 at 12:01 AM
You are saying that American ingenuity ONLY applies to the failed big three and that nothing could ever rise in their place. Those assembly lines, that often sit idle now with the failures running them, will be running full steam ahead when they are under the control of new fresh start companies that can actually make a profit by keeping those lines moving. The new companies won’t be held hostage by past bad decisions.
Buddahpundit on December 17, 2008 at 12:12 AM
It is possible, Entelechy that what gorge w bush knows is much more than what we know.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:33 PM
It doesn’t matter what Bush knows or doesn’t know. Capitalism is superior to socialism. Employing Marxist principles to bailout Capitalism is like using a rock and a stick to fix a finely tuned machine, or like using an eggbeater to play flamenco guitar.
There’s nothing Bush could possibly know that would alter the economic harm he’s inflicting on this country.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 12:15 AM
All the major Japanese car makers manufacture their cars here and sell them here. They are as American as GM.
And they are making money. Big time.
platypus on December 17, 2008 at 12:11 AM
Just because they are manufactured here doesn’t make them as American as GM.
Just because they are manufactured here doesn’t make them as American as GM.
mycowardice on December 17, 2008 at 12:15 AM
Oh, I don’t know. Considering that they are actually profitable, efficient companies, I’d argue that they’re more American.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 12:20 AM
nickj116, my good socialist man, since it would seem that all my central planners want to leave me to do higher paying central planning in America, would you be up to taking one of their places over here on my staff. I won’t be able to pay you that much unless oil prices go back up but we do have subsidized Vodka and an especially good health care system.
PootyPoot on December 17, 2008 at 12:20 AM
Just because they are manufactured here doesn’t make them as American as GM.
mycowardice on December 17, 2008 at 12:15 AM
Why not? And if not, then what does make a company American?
platypus on December 17, 2008 at 12:20 AM
Employing Marxist principles to bailout Capitalism is like using a rock and a stick to fix a finely tuned machine, or like using an eggbeater to play flamenco guitar.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 12:15 AM
If all else fails, hit it with a Big Hammer.
Murphy9 on December 17, 2008 at 12:24 AM
And they are making money. Big time.
platypus on December 17, 2008 at 12:11 AM
Indeed. Because they have no unions to contend with, have quality cars to sell, and have sane leaders, with balanced retribution for their efforts.
We can’t bail them out, time after time, for no different results. That is the definition of insanity, and at our cost. Get farked, all of them. I’ve had enough of pumping blood into a bleeding patiens who refuses to have the blood stopped.
Entelechy on December 17, 2008 at 12:25 AM
And I have never, ever, owned a foreign car. Nor do I intend to. I just want sanity restored, and not pay for hot air, over and over again.
Entelechy on December 17, 2008 at 12:28 AM
bleeding patiens = bleeding patient
Entelechy on December 17, 2008 at 12:32 AM
Just because they are manufactured here doesn’t make them as American as GM.
mycowardice on December 17, 2008 at 12:15 AM
Are GM’s assembly plants in Mexico more American than Toyota’s plants in the US?
That reminds me. How could they have even begun these bailout discussions without demanding that these companies move all of their foreign operations to the US? The US taxpayer should prop up jobs in Mexico also?
Buddahpundit on December 17, 2008 at 12:35 AM
The US taxpayer should prop up jobs in Mexico also?
Buddahpundit on December 17, 2008 at 12:35 AM
Good question.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 12:37 AM
The US taxpayer should prop up jobs in Mexico also?
Buddahpundit on December 17, 2008 at 12:35 AM
Well, that’s one way to solve the illegal alien problem.
platypus on December 17, 2008 at 12:48 AM
Yeah! Screw all of their employees! They deserve to get canned!
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:40 PM
Again…just like all the Delta employees?
If they get no tax money at all, it’s likely that at least one if not two of the Big Three will file for bankruptcy. That isn’t going out of business and it doesn’t involve “canning” all of their employees. It means they’ll have to restructure…it’s the whole point of bankruptcy protection.
And yes, if they are actually to the point where they cannot survive in any form without a large infusion of tax money, they will fail 6 months after getting a large infusion of tax money.
And really, how long have they been in trouble? Since the 70’s? Didn’t anyone at any of these companies see what was coming sooner or later? It’s not like Japanese manufacturing was a secret…a sizable chunk of their business philosophy came from William Deming back in the 50’s.
I think it’s academic at this point…they are getting their money one way or another. My question is, at what point will we be asked to bail ourselves out?
Asher on December 17, 2008 at 12:50 AM
And I have never, ever, owned a foreign car. Nor do I intend to. I just want sanity restored, and not pay for hot air, over and over again.
Entelechy on December 17, 2008 at 12:28 AM
Hey, I thought this blog was free?
Now, in the interest of levity and good cheer, a video of a fat cat jumping into boxes and sliding across the floor.
Are GM’s assembly plants in Mexico more American than Toyota’s plants in the US?
That reminds me. How could they have even begun these bailout discussions without demanding that these companies move all of their foreign operations to the US? The US taxpayer should prop up jobs in Mexico also?
Buddahpundit on December 17, 2008 at 12:35 AM
I think when you headquarters are in Japan, you ain’t very American to begin with.
So I’d say that GM’s plants in the US are more American than both the Toyota plants in the US or the GM plants in Mexico.
All of you preaching conservative principles are floating on Reagan Cloud 9 in Conservatopia.
If you really think that any other car company in the world is a truly private company in a pure free-market with a perfect competitive environment, you are dreaming like little girls eating cotton candy and staring slack-jawed at My Lil Pony videos.
Every Other Car Company in the World is a semi-nationalist state entity. No other industrialized nation in the world, except us, would let their automotive sector die on the vine.
There are many ways to measure wealth in an economy. Here’s one that not many think of: How many times in one year does one (1) dollar bill change hands? The higher the frequency is means more health and wealth in the economy. Not too many people think of metrics like that.
Well, last summer the flow of money … pretty much… stopped.
The flow of money …. STOPPED.
Do you people understand that??? It s t o p p e d…
Do you understand? Do you know that that has not happened in our oh-so-vaunted free market economy before? ever?
When you are a doctor in an ER looking at a soon-dead live human person being on the gurney in front of you, do you begin lecturing in his ears about living a healthy lifestyle and eating lots of broccoli…
or do you get out the effin paddles and yell “CLEAR!”
Thank God for W and his disregard for his own personal popularity.
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:25 AM
Well, last summer the flow of money … pretty much… stopped.
The flow of money …. STOPPED.
Do you people understand that??? It s t o p p e d…
That is just not true. Consumer spending hasn’t taken anything like that much of a hit at all, except in Chicken Little land and panic leads to bad policy.
When you are a doctor in an ER looking at a soon-dead live human person being on the gurney in front of you, do you begin lecturing in his ears about living a healthy lifestyle and eating lots of broccoli…
or do you get out the effin paddles and yell “CLEAR!”
You don’t do that unless the patients heart has stopped. You’ve been watching too much TV.
Thank God for W and his disregard for his own personal popularity.
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:25 AM
I think that he did this to try to preserve what little is left of his personal popularity. Although he just may not know what the frack he is doing.
MB4 on December 17, 2008 at 1:34 AM
Thank God for W and his disregard for his own personal popularity.
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:25 AM
We shall see. And if you’re proved wrong, please be big enough to apologize.
platypus on December 17, 2008 at 1:37 AM
or do you get out the effin paddles and yell “CLEAR!”
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:25 AM
Bankruptcy would be the proper analogy to “get out the effin paddles and yell “CLEAR!” Enabling the GM and Chrysler and the UAW to just go on as before, just heavily subsidized, would be comparable to sticking a funnel in the patients mouth and pouring in more alcohol.
MB4 on December 17, 2008 at 1:40 AM
There are many ways to measure wealth in an economy. Here’s one that not many think of: How many times in one year does one (1) dollar bill change hands? The higher the frequency is means more health and wealth in the economy. Not too many people think of metrics like that.
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:25 AM
Try a little experiment and let us know how it works out for you. Find a friend or two and pass a dollar bill amongst yourselves ten times and then total up your proceeds. Continue passing the buck, this time deducting the requisite share for the government on each pass, and count how long it takes before you’re left with only a penny.
Your economic theory doesn’t work because government doesn’t create wealth, it can only confiscate and redistribute it.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 1:44 AM
When you are a doctor in an ER looking at a soon-dead live human person being on the gurney in front of you, do you begin lecturing in his ears about living a healthy lifestyle and eating lots of broccoli…
or do you get out the effin paddles and yell “CLEAR!”drain all of the blood out of a healthy bystander, leaving him pale and dead, to save the poor mans life?
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:25 AM
FIFY
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 1:49 AM
MB4 on December 17, 2008 at 1:40 AM
BTW, a liver transplant every few months would also be needed.
MB4 on December 17, 2008 at 1:50 AM
There are professional economists, and I am, certainly, not one of them. But I’ve not seen one HA post that educated me in that regard.
The only way to function in modern times is to have a modicum of trust in the professionals. I don’t think Hank Paulson et al have done this for shitz and giggles. So far, I’ll trust them. So far.
Bankruptcy would be the proper analogy …
I think… that they’re trying to do “bankruptcy, but, shhh, don’t call it that,” so as to not scare the customers.
I think the Big 3 got swamped by a perfect storm for which they are blameless. The maddening thing is they are innovating and inventing ahead of some of the competition. The maddening thing is they are verging on a renaissance of technology.
Will it be like so many other things that we invent, like VCRs, that we invent and the Japanese buy off and run away with it?
I want my Chevy Volt, damn it! (lol)
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:54 AM
would be comparable to sticking a funnel in the patients mouth and pouring in more alcohol.
MB4 on December 17, 2008 at 1:40 AM
…and preserving him thusly indefinitely on the verge of death, having stolen the funnel and the money for booze from somebody who will go hungry without.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 1:55 AM
Your economic theory doesn’t work because government doesn’t create wealth, it can only confiscate and redistribute it.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 1:44 AM
The metric is the average for all dollars passed in one years time.
I don’t have a theory cuz I’m not an economist.
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:57 AM
The metric is the average for all dollars passed in one years time.
I don’t have a theory cuz I’m not an economist.
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:57 AM
You can still have a theory. My general point was that it’s an overly simplistic one, to the point of being wrong. If passing dollars around is one of the most important measures of an economy, then hyperinflation will improve the economy because more dollars will be passed around.
And MB4 is right, that spending isn’t actually down that much in the greater sense. It didn’t “just stop”. It’s just lower than it was before. When people barrow and spend too much money they eventually have to cut back and pay down their debt. It’s the natural order of things.
And this is why chicken little and his friend Bush shouldn’t be trusted.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 2:05 AM
When people barrow and spend too much money they eventually have to cut back and pay down their debt. It’s the natural order of things.
And hopefully, instead of obsessing about using the credit card or a second/third mortgage to buy another big screen TV, people will spend more time with their friends and families or reading books or working on hobbies—and most importantly, remembering, if not learning for the first time, how the real world works rather than the Utopian fantasies that all too many now prefer.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 2:13 AM
Interesting points here that I have observed:
1.) GM’s (General Motors)finance arm -GMAC Bank- also seems to run the following mortgage broker http://www.ditech.com/about/. Could the housing market bubble implosion have done more harm to GM then we know?
2.) Toyota is no longer a “foreign car” anymore than Ford,GM, or Daimler-Chrysler are “domestic cars”. Chrysler Corp is partially owned by the German Daimler Corp and all foreign carmakers especially Toyota have plants here in the US that make the cars we buy-just as the Big 3 have plants in Russia, Mexico, Canada, and several former Soviet States! It really doesn’t matter where the headquarters for the multinational corporation is….just what kind of product they make.
In my case I find that Toyota and Volvo (Swedish car company) make some pretty damn fine cars based on the fact that I can (and have) driven 2 different Toyotas that were old enough to remember the 1st Bush Administration (one of which is my current vehicle a 1991 Toyota Camry) and a 1994 Volvo which saved my life when I was first learning to drive 4-5 years back. The only domestic I ever had (ironically enough a Ford) quite literally had the transmission explode on me hours from home leaving my stranded with friends for a week.
The Big Three (or at least Two of them) are probably going into the crapper sooner or later….I’d rather it be sooner on their own heads then later with my cash!
You can still have a theory. My general point was that it’s an overly simplistic one, to the point of being wrong. If passing dollars around is one of the most important measures of an economy, then hyperinflation will improve the economy because more dollars will be passed around.
I could have been a bit clearer in my rant. I only offered that metric as an example of how most of us don’t even perceive how healthy the economy is. As for hyperinflation goes, I can imagine an ecomomy with fast-moving dollars and stable prices.
And MB4 is right, that spending isn’t actually down that much in the greater sense. It didn’t “just stop”. It’s just lower than it was before. When people barrow and spend too much money they eventually have to cut back and pay down their debt. It’s the natural order of things.
The consumer economy, for sure, did not just stop. But the money at the top did. The lenders who lend to the lenders who lend to the lenders…. who lend to us… stopped lending to each other.
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 2:33 AM
If all else fails, hit it with a Big Hammer.
Murphy9 on December 17, 2008 at 12:24 AM
LOL. Are you an Aussie?
OldEnglish on December 17, 2008 at 2:36 AM
This was the logic used by some during the New Deal, or at least by the apologists afterwards. But since (minus the Reagan years) we have moving towards statism.
V15J on December 17, 2008 at 3:56 AM
GWB has lost his f**king mind.
I. Am. Beyond. Shocked.
This must be a sign that the Messiah is about to arrive.
platypus on December 16, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Quoted for truth. Bush let the two stooges Chairman Hank and Chairman Paul lead him down this hell path.
Amazing! Let’s just abandon all sense and lead ourselves to a major economic disaster that will top all others because we want a legacy that is as good as Hoovers?
Go back to the ranch George, take Paulson with you and stump break that SOB.
conservnut on December 17, 2008 at 7:12 AM
Oh my gosh. I have to bite…
You guys are a bunch of whiny bitches. Do you honestly want the Big 3 to fail? Because that’s exactly what’s going to happen unless they get bailed out.
I dont’ like bailouts either, but it’s either that, or the complete and utter collapse of the U.S. economy.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Nick, I empathize. It concerns me that these companies which are American stock would go down. But, what troubles me the most is how hamstrung they have been for so long, unable to produce adequate product to compete side-by-side with foreign companies. That is heartbreaking. If they get bailed out, it rewards the wrong. If they get restructured under chapter 11, they stand a fighting chance as a business to clean house and rework their infrastructure.
But, your point is that this would catastrophically kill our economy. This hinges on the premise that these three companies are thee ONLY industries in the US which is total crap. These three are BIG industries…but…we are a nation now of experts. We are skilled and ready to work. We have great ideas and are, largely, hard working. Cars and car parts are also not the only place where machine shops get there business. A lot, yes, but the entire country? THE ENTIRE USA? No. If any blame is to be laid, it is not at the feet of “failed Bush econ. policies” or capitalism. The two major issues were the DEREGULATION of behemoths called Fannie/Freddie and other bureaucratic monstrosities (Um, liberal meddling into areas they need not be) and the labor unions and related lobbying (liberals meddling into areas they need not be.) It benefits them to have crisis, if anything a “generated” crisis…as Biden forewarned. How the heck did he know? hehe. So that they (ala, Rham Emanuel) may “throw long and deep” and usher in some crazy anti-american tripe we wouldn’t normally be predisposed to swallow. Any of this ring a bell?
About Bush and like-minded “republicans”: true conservatives have been aghast for a looooooooooooooong time over this man. He took a dramatic turn to the left, even though he never once earned the praise of his new found constituencies. This is why I now fear the second term…
So, just because this is a RINO president alongside some RINO republicans and democrats does not make this a “consensus” with some crazy fringe conservatives hopping mad on the side lines. No, it makes it a traitorous union between two sides, with neither on the side of reason and logic. Truth is stumbling in the streets and people cannot handle solid doctrine any more in any capacity…
…anyway, that is my .02
Mommypundit on December 17, 2008 at 7:16 AM
1) He never had any free market principles.
2) He hasn’t saved the free market, he has further damaged it.
MarkTheGreat on December 17, 2008 at 7:27 AM
Why is my post saying it is awaiting moderation? I have NEVER seen this before. Hmmmmmm.
Mommypundit on December 17, 2008 at 7:38 AM
And this is why chicken little and his friend Bush shouldn’t be trusted.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 2:05 AM
+1
The fact is we are in the process of winnowing down bad debt, only the insane Moonbat media could look at this as “a bad sign”….
if only the Feds would do the same thing.
sven10077 on December 17, 2008 at 7:56 AM
Fact is a bailout to the big three will make zero difference. The failed business plan the operate under is not sustainable.
Our government is over 57 Trillion dollars in unfunded debt. Handing money out to every failed business is only going to worsen the situation. Our politicians have destroyed the greatest democracy the world has ever known with their pandering and entitlement policies. This country is nearing total collapse and all we can think of is what is in it for me. Time to lock and load!
trs on December 17, 2008 at 8:10 AM
If you really think that any other car company in the world is a truly private company in a pure free-market with a perfect competitive environment, you are dreaming like little girls eating cotton candy and staring slack-jawed at My Lil Pony videos.
Every Other Car Company in the World is a semi-nationalist state entity. No other industrialized nation in the world, except us, would let their automotive sector die on the vine.
And how many French or Italian cars have you seen on the road lately? European makes are basically limited to luxury automobiles and little else. Ford competes quite well in Europe for the average buyer and Buick is a top seller in China.
I’m not sure exactly what your point is. Nationalizing the US auto industry might guarantee some union jobs, but you’d end up with a Fiat or a Trabant. And everyone would be paying for it…even if you didn’t own an automobile.
This is insane.
Asher on December 17, 2008 at 8:55 AM
Yeah! Screw all of their employees! They deserve to get canned!
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:40 PM
Hell yes! Get rid of the UAW and you have half the problem solved. Then get rid of the terrible mgmt. people who couldn’t stand up to the UAW and voila! a functioning auto industry.
Blowback
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I beat my wife so she wouldn’t bruise herself.
lorien1973 on December 16, 2008 at 10:40 PM
heartbroken
El_Terrible on December 16, 2008 at 10:42 PM
GWB has lost his f**king mind.
I. Am. Beyond. Shocked.
This must be a sign that the Messiah is about to arrive.
platypus on December 16, 2008 at 10:44 PM
“I interrupted John to save him from asking a question” ~ ~ Barack Obama
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Here we go again. Oh boy.
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 10:46 PM
“I didn’t have…that kind of sex with that woman, Monica, so they wouldn’t call me a philanderer” ~ ~ Bill Clinton
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 10:47 PM
yeah, caring about the people of our nation – trying to make sure that the economy doesn’t totally collapse and attempting to do everything in your power to minimize unemployment and suffering will be a primary concern of the president.
What a monster that evil qeorge w bush is. Huh platypus?
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 10:49 PM
On a serious not, if it wouldn’t be so devastating to my country, I’d have to laugh uncontrollably. Alas, I could cry 24 hours a day. Stupidity really hurts.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Either America will learn that government checks can’t solve every problem or we will become just another (poor) country.
zmdavid on December 16, 2008 at 10:50 PM
I would have at least managed a small shred of respect for our about-to-be ex-President if he “abandoned the principles” of kowtowing to his compadres in Mexico City and freed Ramos and Compean.
He led the country well in the days following 9/11, but has otherwise done all he could do to transform this into a bankrupt, third-world land.
The only reason I’ll be sorry to see him slink out of D.C. on January 20 is the knowledge that his successor will be, if possible, even worse.
MrScribbler on December 16, 2008 at 10:50 PM
Translates: “I’ve abandoned free market principles because I don’t really believe in them and am desperately hoping not to have a depression as my legacy and will do anything to just delay the meltdown.”
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 10:51 PM
There is no such thing as a socialist conservative. You are either one, or the other. Make up your mind, wise_man.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 10:52 PM
I’m gonna need that picture of Admiral Ackbar doing a face palm onto his forehead…
I still respect him but dang dude… just GO.
Skywise on December 16, 2008 at 10:53 PM
“I destroyed the village to save it.”
ramrocks on December 16, 2008 at 10:54 PM
He will be remembered as the guy who gave the unions, the number one nemeses to his party, their big feather, 2 seconds before he left office, while they showed nothing but contempt to the auto deal negotiations – for shame!!!
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 10:55 PM
“I’m going to Kill you now, so that death won’t take you later.”
I am beyond words here. Bush needs to go gentle into that good night.
I’m done.
portlandon on December 16, 2008 at 10:58 PM
George Bush is clearly an emotional thinker.
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 10:58 PM
Forgot to say – the Congress showed the unions the finger, as they should have, in their utmost arrogance to change nothing, to give nothing, knowing that they are the number one impediment…and he plays Santa Claus.
Foxtrott Yankee, Mr. President. I love saying this, as I’m still free. In another time, in another country I’d have gotten shot.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 10:59 PM
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Asher on December 16, 2008 at 11:02 PM
I am rapidly losing all respect for this man.
W you sold out and took us down with you. Shame on you and shame on us.
Scott on December 16, 2008 at 11:02 PM
As Michelle says: “Stop me before I hurl a shoe.”
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:04 PM
All I can say is, whatever it was that his advisers told him, whatever the scenarios were, whatever it was they thought was going to happen, it musta been really, really, really bad to spook the President of the United States and the Secretary of the Treasury into such a state of panic.
Skandia Recluse on December 16, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Don’t worry, portlandon – you and the liberals will get their wish when George W Bush is out of office this january.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:05 PM
I wish she would do it, put her money where her mouth is.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:07 PM
Your right, the President does have a duty to the citizens of the country. However, that doesn’t mean that every idea they have to fix a problem is a good one. And this bailout-mania that we are going through is going to be a bigger problem, in the long run, than letting these corporations fail.
Troy Rasmussen on December 16, 2008 at 11:07 PM
Sorry but I think Michelle went overboard with that line.
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 11:10 PM
I’m taking off my shoes right now.
keep the change on December 16, 2008 at 11:14 PM
Skandia Recluse’s point is that you might understand why Bush has done this, if you knew exactly what he was up against.
The liberals have told us all that Bush lied to get us into the war with Iraq. The fact is, he was told what they knew, and he decided to act to prevent something worse from happening.
If Michelle was president, and had at her command the ability to save this nation and not let millions of people from being unemployed, she might even try to do things to prevent a great calamity to befall this nation. To make such ridiculous comments without the benefit of the same information that the president has, shows a great arrogance to monday morning quarterback this whole issue.
I understand why the president made the decisions that he did, and I have little to no respect for the liberals who claim that he invaded iraq for oil, or to avenge his paw, or to build up cheney’s halliburton stock, or because he was stupid, or because he was hitler or because he was this or he was that ….
and I am losing a lot of respect for certain conservatives who should be smart enough to understand why Bush is doing the things he is now, and the reasons he is. It’s like they are using the same emotional and biased, unintelligent lack of the benefit of the doubt for this as the liberals have – and they are in the same company when they do this.
and that really is regrettable.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:15 PM
The road to Hell is paved with
good intentionsElectoral Votes.Asher on December 16, 2008 at 11:02 PM
Fixed.
portlandon on December 16, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Yes. It’s really embarrassing.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:15 PM
why did she go overboard? she’s obviously half joking, but come on… GWB, who I’ve admired for keeping us safe, has just socialized our economy faster than any Democrat could have ever dreamed. It’s an outrage and he deserves some backlash from the people.
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:15 PM
overboard = a message to george W bush on a gravestone. Throwing a shoe at Bush like the iraqi did. This isn’t that hard to understand.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:18 PM
I know he means well and we are in unchartered waters but I really wish he wasn’t doing this. This might be the first time I am hoping that I am wrong.
Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 11:19 PM
Oh Please, I have liberal friends ( live in Baghdad on the Willamette River…Portland Oregon), however defending George W Bush any longer as a conservative is outrageous. National Security? He gets a 10 out of 10. Supreme Court Justices? 10 out of 10. Social issues? 10 out of 10.
Everything else, a strong 3.
portlandon on December 16, 2008 at 11:19 PM
wise_man:
explain to me why Bush is mortgaging our future again? for short term impact to save a few thousand jobs now, even if it means millions more lost in the future? principles are there for a reason, to guide you to do the right thing during chaotic moments when you are tempted to do the politically expedient thing. instead, GWB has chosen the politically expedient option, ignoring the constitution and the limited government principles he claims to believe in, and left us a legacy of socialism.
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:20 PM
You guys are a bunch of whiny bitches. Do you honestly want the Big 3 to fail? Because that’s exactly what’s going to happen unless they get bailed out.
I dont’ like bailouts either, but it’s either that, or the complete and utter collapse of the U.S. economy.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Evil? Monster? I’ll leave that up to history but I doubt he’ll be seen that way.
I’ve got news for you – the economy has already totally collapsed. GWB knows damn well that there’s nothing behind the dollars he’s letting them spend except unborn children’s willingness to pay a bill they didn’t incur.
It’s all Monopoly money now except that the debt needs to be paid with real people’s labor.
But WTF do we care? We’ll all be dead and gone by then. Won’t bother us a bit to hate America’s children.
Come to think of it – we hate them now. That’s why abortion is legal. Might as well nail the ones we don’t slaughter in the womb. Fairness and all that.
Bush lied about being conservative. That makes him no better than McLame.
I hope the door hits him in the a$$ and knocks some sense into his brain. Maybe then he could possibly apologize for slandering conservatives.
platypus on December 16, 2008 at 11:21 PM
In case my other comment doesn’t get posted:
You guys are a bunch of whiny babies. Do you honestly want the Big 3 to fail? Because that’s exactly what’s going to happen unless they get bailed out.
I don’t like bailouts either, but it’s either that or the complete and utter collapse of the U.S. economy. You choose.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:22 PM
wise_man:
if you didn’t read her post, go back, it says “political epitaph” not literal.
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Thankful,
wise_man explains why it is overboard. The gravestone. The hurling a shoe at someone. It just all seems mean-spirited.
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 11:22 PM
thankful, if you knew the same things that Bush knows about this, then you would understand why he is doing this, the real possibilities and consequences if this were not done, and why your uneducated opinion of the results is not in line with a realistic assessment.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:23 PM
I protest this action by Bush in the strongest terms. 90% of my staff now wants to go to America to fill the high paying central planning jobs that are opening up there. Mother Russia will be lost without them. This will mean a return to the cold war for sure. I may have to occupy Georgia again and even Alabama if this employee raiding of my central planners does not cease.
PootyPoot on December 16, 2008 at 11:25 PM
I was under no illusion that she actually created a grave stone with this message and took a photograph. THat is irrelevant.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:25 PM
What’s important to understand is that, once in a while, we get a poster who defends or ignores the liberal actions of people who claim to be conservative, and uses the ironic tactic of calling the people who bring it up “liberal”.
Get it yet? People who are complaining about liberal policies are called liberal, while the politicians who enact liberal policies are defended as conservative.
It all makes sense, from that occasional posters’ point of view.
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:27 PM
And she has every reason to be angry, terryannonline. But she also has a responsibility. And she has been lacking as of late. And again, this is distressing to see. It’s irresponsible and self-indulgent. I respect Michelle a lot. But this is veering into Ann Coulter territory.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:28 PM
Nickj116:
Don’t buy into the doom and gloom scenarios that Bush/Paulson/Pelosi/Reid have sold you. America will survive without the Big 3, even though its unlikely they would ever truly fail. If we don’t bail them out, they will file bankruptcy and survive. And if one or more of them didn’t, well that’s called freedom. Freedom to succeed, freedom to fail. And as they died off, another auto maker would pop up to take its place and offer new jobs. Because people will still need cars. Supply and demand.
America can handle auto makers falling and a bad turn in the housing market. Can it handle socializing the financial industry and part of the manufacturing industry? Not sure. I don’t want a government bank account, a government loan or have to drive a government car designed by Nancy Pelosi. That’s what Bush is leaving us with.
thankful on December 16, 2008 at 11:28 PM
Three companies fail and it’s, “the complete and utter collapse of the U.S. economy?” LOL
You are delusional. Businesses fail all the time, and here is a news flash for you, NO business is too big to fail. Some other company will come in and take advantage of the situation and the “crisis” wave will ripple until the “crisis” is over.
Troy Rasmussen on December 16, 2008 at 11:29 PM
LOL @ the MadisonConservative troll.
Eat manure and assume room temperature you POS.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:29 PM
Oh puh-leeze!
Fail = Bankruptcy, not disappearance. What do you think happens to the assets? If the company gets liquidated, the assets get sold to a similar company that isn’t in trouble. If the company doesn’t fail, it gets restructured and business goes on.
The economy is collapsed for a lot of reasons but insufficient capital funding is not one of those reasons.
Insufficient capital management skills are.
platypus on December 16, 2008 at 11:30 PM
Newt is on the line.
wise_man, on security and the war, you are right. On this, there is nothing he knows that we don’t know. Your attempt to insult others with your “superior” and holier than thou attitude is silly when all you see is socialism, and you are blinded by what his actions will achieve.
They are worse than Obama’s, so far. That’s not to say that the One won’t take it further, having been thrown the ball…by GWB, the conservative ‘capitalist’. Our country is scroomed from the left to the right, that is the only reality. You can like it or not. Others who see it clearly are not dumb, just because you deem them to be so.
terryannonline, the sooner you get very informed, and mature, the freer your entire life will be. Otherwise you will be hampered, forever.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 11:30 PM
So george W bush is a liberal, right? Just like john mccain, that evil traitor who votes with conservative 80 of the time, and the glass is 80 percent full.
Come on, I want to here more from you about how george w bush is more liberal that barack obama, you real conservative you
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:31 PM
What are you talking about? More informed about what?
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 11:32 PM
Three companies that employ hundreds of thousands of people, btw, and who put cars on the roads.
But I’m delusional. Ok.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:33 PM
It is possible, Entelechy that what gorge w bush knows is much more than what we know. And to believe that george w bush has finally shown his true colors as a rotten liberal, and is doing this to damn america with his socialism is to also beleive the same lies that the left has made about bush for 8 years.
you believe what ever you want about bush. he’s a rotten liberal socialist. fine. whatever
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:33 PM
If someone is more conservative than Barack Obama we have to fall in lockstep behind them? That’s the toughest standard you can come up with?
joewm315 on December 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Yeah, in Japan.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Excuse me, but I didn’t see an argument. Was anything I said inaccurate? Did you not defend liberal actions by a politician claiming to be conservative by calling the critic liberal? I mean…dude. That’s just mind-boggling in terms of being asinine. I’m really seeing that you just invest your heart into some men like Bush and McCain, and when they disappoint you, instead of facing the fact that they are flawed, you turn your disappointment and frustration on those who point out what you don’t want to face, be it posters here or major conservative figures like Michelle Malkin.
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM
You are having another panic attack. I was afraid you would stop taking your prosac.
Sigmund on December 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM
obviously joewm315 you have no clue what you are talking about.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM
lol @ the troll again
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM
You call us liberals for complaining about liberal policies. Explain that with any semblance of logic. Why would liberals be upset about liberal policies?
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Obviously you haven’t finished your two-month long hissy fit, so carry on.
joewm315 on December 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM
What American auto company isn’t it trouble?
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:36 PM
terry, do you think this is…mean-spirited?
Free markets, capitalism, socialism. Michelle knows exactly why she posted that. It takes malkins to do that. She has them.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 11:36 PM
LOL @ the fail troll
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:36 PM
Quit laughing like a drunk and explain your twisted logic. If we are really liberals, as you say, why would we be upset only about the liberal policies put forward by “conservatives” such as Bush and McCain?
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:36 PM
it takes no ‘malkins’ to write something on a computer. again, put the money where the mouth is.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:37 PM
look at that, the energizer bunny troll keeps going, and going, and going …
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:38 PM
again with the projection.
WHY EVEN POST??
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Just like Delta Airlines? Oh, wait…I flew them back from Tokyo last month.
The Big 3 might go into bankruptcy, make some tough choices, reorganize and keep working, but they won’t “fail”.
If it’s so bad that they will disappear unless they get millions of tax dollars, then they are doomed already. If the fuse is already lit, get the hell out of the way. Otherwise you just get burned.
Asher on December 16, 2008 at 11:39 PM
Answer the question. It’s a fair, straightforward question. If we are really liberals, as you say, why would we be upset only about the liberal policies put forward by “conservatives” such as Bush and McCain?
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:39 PM
History may be repeating itself, first as tragedy with Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin, and now as farce with George W. Bush in the place of Karl Marx and Barack H. Obama potentially in the place of Vladimir Lenin.
Tav on December 16, 2008 at 11:39 PM
Belief is only when the facts are unknown. I don’t believe W is a liberal – I see it.
And if advisers advised him to “go liberal” and he listened, then either (1) he’s not conservative or (2) they are really handlers.
Either way, he’s run up against a major truth that is on every Hell’s Angel business card:
“When we do right no one remembers. When we do wrong no one forgets.”
platypus on December 16, 2008 at 11:40 PM
Yeah! Screw all of their employees! They deserve to get canned!
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:40 PM
Yes I do.
Look I’ll just drop it. Obviously, not everyone agrees on everything. I’m just stated my opinion. We have speech in this country. Michelle can post whatever she wants on her Web site and I’ll have opinions. No big deal
terryannonline on December 16, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Same to you, jerk.
Yes, because new car companies in America will come in and take over the competitive vacuum, and will probably tell the UAW to go to hell.
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:41 PM
lying is like breathing to you. I said nothign of the kind. you are pathetic. drop dead, so i can compose a witty gravestone message for you. thats all your good for
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:41 PM
It’s not a matter of “want”. They have failed. The question is should we steal Americans’ money to reward failure while preventing three new fresh start American automakers to take their place. If the argument is that something new can’t grow in place of the old and dying, then America and the American Dream is already dead.
Buddahpundit on December 16, 2008 at 11:44 PM
Yes, you did.
Any three year old knows the implication of that statement.
Now answer the question, coward.
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:45 PM
What is embarrassing is that a ‘conservative’ president lets the unions skate free, at the hourly rates and retirement money they have, while the rest of us should bail out them, the companies, including their executives, form whom the same Bush admin. slipt in a last line to allow them the excruciating balloon payments when they retire, while a liberal Congress was opposed. Get informed and then come back and whine at us. To be called “unintelligent” by you is a compliment.
She went to Iraq. I don’t think you did, nor should you have to. Since when are we, all of us, not allowed to write anything? You can agree or disagree. Your holiness and unaccountable “love” for GWB is truly unnerving. He did great at keeping us free, and I’ll always give him that. Otherwise, one disappointment after the other. To see that doesn’t make one a lesser person than you are. You also never saw anything wrong with McCain, who turne out to be a post-election disaster, even though I stood with you for him, as the One is an even bigger one.
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 11:45 PM
Who? People keep saying “screw the big 3 because other companies will take over” but no one is saying who these companies are. You can’t just blindly talk nonsense.
Oh wait, I guess you can.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:45 PM
Um, it’s not rewarding failure. And btw, our taxpayer money goes to a lot more stupid things than bailing out auto companies that provide hundreds of thousands of jobs and put American cars on the road.
Just FYI.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:47 PM
Take that, and save yourself some further keystrokes, unless you have fun watching him squirm.
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:47 PM
In wise_man’s world everything is nonsense. Nothing is what it is because everything is what it isn’t. And contrary-wise; what it is, it isn’t, and what it isn’t, it is. You see?
Cheshire Cat on December 16, 2008 at 11:48 PM
I can toast to that
Entelechy on December 16, 2008 at 11:48 PM
You’re right. If the big three go down, there will be no car companies in America. No one will realize the market share. No one will invest in engineering. No one will look for competitive advantage gained in domestic car manufacturing.
Now let’s talk about blindly talking nonsense. More accurately, let’s talk about American business initiative, and how many industries have died just because the juggernauts fell. Good lord, man.
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:50 PM
I see. ‘go liberal.’ and yet:
and the savings and loan bail out. As well as
So is Ronald Reagan a liberal? I don’t think so.
some times people do things that are necessary. and good men dont need to be called idiotic things by idiotic people.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:50 PM
screw you, a*hole troll.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:51 PM
Uh, Ford?
Ford doesn’t need a ‘bailout’, what they need are the parts suppliers, and sub contractors to stay in business.
Skandia Recluse on December 16, 2008 at 11:51 PM
Yes she did. ANd this is irrelevant to the talk of hurling a shoe at the president. Maybe she should put her money where her mouth is.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:52 PM
I have nothing left for Bush but contempt! He aught to pay a ghost-writer to write a book for him and go on a world tour with Jimma Carter. I hear Jimma’s looking for an assistant to carry his bags.
FloatingRock on December 16, 2008 at 11:52 PM
F*k you a*hole troll. Seriously, drop dead you f*k.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:53 PM
You think that’ll happen immediately? I mean, if you want to wait for all that to happen while our unemployment rate skyrockets and our economy continues to tank, then be my guest. I’d go another route.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:53 PM
You’re a coward, you won’t answer a direct question, and you won’t back up your words. You defend the liberal actions of conservatives because you’re afraid to admit the men you admire are flawed. Your weakness and apathetic attitude has contributed to the current state of the political climate, and the state of the GOP, may it rest in peace.
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:54 PM
And things just blew up, ladies and gentlemen.
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:54 PM
typical. the bile from the trolls has reached critical mass and this page is now a cesspool. buh bye.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:54 PM
you make crap up and lie as easily as you take breath. f*k you and die.
wise_man on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 PM
You’re pathetic, Wise_man.
FloatingRock on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 PM
Good riddance.
FloatingRock on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 PM
If all you’re interested in is immediate results, never EVER start a business, please. You’ll have a heart attack within a month. What you’re suggesting is the continued pouring of money into a floundering business structure which will only forestall inevitable collapse. The question is how big we want the bill for the collapse to be. It will be smaller if we let it go now.
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:56 PM
LMAO. Yeah, they’re going to make up for the loss of three major American auto companies. Riiiight.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=F#chart1:symbol=f;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
nickj116 on December 16, 2008 at 11:56 PM
…says the guy who just said…
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:57 PM
wise_man [reading note from MadisonConservative]: See. You. Soon. Id- . . . Id-. . . idi- . . . idi- . . .
Entelechy: Idiots.
wise_man: — huh?
[pause]
Entelechy: It’s for you.
Tuco on December 16, 2008 at 11:57 PM
I didn’t catch this until just now.
Oh, the irony. Practice what you preach, bud. Practice what you preach.
MadisonConservative on December 16, 2008 at 11:59 PM
Really? And you’re the one talking about American ingenuity? I guess that applies to everyone EXCEPT the Big 3 huh?
nickj116 on December 17, 2008 at 12:01 AM
American ingenuity includes the little caveat of “If you fail, you’re supposed to start over, not have your failure kept on the edge of oblivion by taxpayer funding.”
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 12:06 AM
All the major Japanese car makers manufacture their cars here and sell them here. They are as American as GM.
And they are making money. Big time.
platypus on December 17, 2008 at 12:11 AM
You are saying that American ingenuity ONLY applies to the failed big three and that nothing could ever rise in their place. Those assembly lines, that often sit idle now with the failures running them, will be running full steam ahead when they are under the control of new fresh start companies that can actually make a profit by keeping those lines moving. The new companies won’t be held hostage by past bad decisions.
Buddahpundit on December 17, 2008 at 12:12 AM
It doesn’t matter what Bush knows or doesn’t know. Capitalism is superior to socialism. Employing Marxist principles to bailout Capitalism is like using a rock and a stick to fix a finely tuned machine, or like using an eggbeater to play flamenco guitar.
There’s nothing Bush could possibly know that would alter the economic harm he’s inflicting on this country.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 12:15 AM
Just because they are manufactured here doesn’t make them as American as GM.
mycowardice on December 17, 2008 at 12:15 AM
Oh, I don’t know. Considering that they are actually profitable, efficient companies, I’d argue that they’re more American.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 12:20 AM
nickj116, my good socialist man, since it would seem that all my central planners want to leave me to do higher paying central planning in America, would you be up to taking one of their places over here on my staff. I won’t be able to pay you that much unless oil prices go back up but we do have subsidized Vodka and an especially good health care system.
PootyPoot on December 17, 2008 at 12:20 AM
Why not? And if not, then what does make a company American?
platypus on December 17, 2008 at 12:20 AM
If all else fails, hit it with a Big Hammer.
Murphy9 on December 17, 2008 at 12:24 AM
Indeed. Because they have no unions to contend with, have quality cars to sell, and have sane leaders, with balanced retribution for their efforts.
We can’t bail them out, time after time, for no different results. That is the definition of insanity, and at our cost. Get farked, all of them. I’ve had enough of pumping blood into a bleeding patiens who refuses to have the blood stopped.
Entelechy on December 17, 2008 at 12:25 AM
And I have never, ever, owned a foreign car. Nor do I intend to. I just want sanity restored, and not pay for hot air, over and over again.
Entelechy on December 17, 2008 at 12:28 AM
bleeding patiens = bleeding patient
Entelechy on December 17, 2008 at 12:32 AM
Are GM’s assembly plants in Mexico more American than Toyota’s plants in the US?
That reminds me. How could they have even begun these bailout discussions without demanding that these companies move all of their foreign operations to the US? The US taxpayer should prop up jobs in Mexico also?
Buddahpundit on December 17, 2008 at 12:35 AM
Good question.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 12:37 AM
Well, that’s one way to solve the illegal alien problem.
platypus on December 17, 2008 at 12:48 AM
Asher on December 17, 2008 at 12:50 AM
Hey, I thought this blog was free?
Now, in the interest of levity and good cheer, a video of a fat cat jumping into boxes and sliding across the floor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfGOlEizUUs
Asher on December 17, 2008 at 12:56 AM
I think when you headquarters are in Japan, you ain’t very American to begin with.
So I’d say that GM’s plants in the US are more American than both the Toyota plants in the US or the GM plants in Mexico.
mycowardice on December 17, 2008 at 1:23 AM
All of you preaching conservative principles are floating on Reagan Cloud 9 in Conservatopia.
If you really think that any other car company in the world is a truly private company in a pure free-market with a perfect competitive environment, you are dreaming like little girls eating cotton candy and staring slack-jawed at My Lil Pony videos.
Every Other Car Company in the World is a semi-nationalist state entity. No other industrialized nation in the world, except us, would let their automotive sector die on the vine.
There are many ways to measure wealth in an economy. Here’s one that not many think of: How many times in one year does one (1) dollar bill change hands? The higher the frequency is means more health and wealth in the economy. Not too many people think of metrics like that.
Well, last summer the flow of money … pretty much… stopped.
The flow of money …. STOPPED.
Do you people understand that??? It s t o p p e d…
Do you understand? Do you know that that has not happened in our oh-so-vaunted free market economy before? ever?
When you are a doctor in an ER looking at a soon-dead live human person being on the gurney in front of you, do you begin lecturing in his ears about living a healthy lifestyle and eating lots of broccoli…
or do you get out the effin paddles and yell “CLEAR!”
Thank God for W and his disregard for his own personal popularity.
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:25 AM
That is just not true. Consumer spending hasn’t taken anything like that much of a hit at all, except in Chicken Little land and panic leads to bad policy.
You don’t do that unless the patients heart has stopped. You’ve been watching too much TV.
I think that he did this to try to preserve what little is left of his personal popularity. Although he just may not know what the frack he is doing.
MB4 on December 17, 2008 at 1:34 AM
We shall see. And if you’re proved wrong, please be big enough to apologize.
platypus on December 17, 2008 at 1:37 AM
Bankruptcy would be the proper analogy to “get out the effin paddles and yell “CLEAR!” Enabling the GM and Chrysler and the UAW to just go on as before, just heavily subsidized, would be comparable to sticking a funnel in the patients mouth and pouring in more alcohol.
MB4 on December 17, 2008 at 1:40 AM
Try a little experiment and let us know how it works out for you. Find a friend or two and pass a dollar bill amongst yourselves ten times and then total up your proceeds. Continue passing the buck, this time deducting the requisite share for the government on each pass, and count how long it takes before you’re left with only a penny.
Your economic theory doesn’t work because government doesn’t create wealth, it can only confiscate and redistribute it.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 1:44 AM
When you are a doctor in an ER looking at a soon-dead live human person being on the gurney in front of you, do you begin lecturing in his ears about living a healthy lifestyle and eating lots of broccoli…
or do you
get out the effin paddles and yell “CLEAR!”drain all of the blood out of a healthy bystander, leaving him pale and dead, to save the poor mans life?silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:25 AM
FIFY
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 1:49 AM
BTW, a liver transplant every few months would also be needed.
MB4 on December 17, 2008 at 1:50 AM
There are professional economists, and I am, certainly, not one of them. But I’ve not seen one HA post that educated me in that regard.
The only way to function in modern times is to have a modicum of trust in the professionals. I don’t think Hank Paulson et al have done this for shitz and giggles. So far, I’ll trust them. So far.
I think… that they’re trying to do “bankruptcy, but, shhh, don’t call it that,” so as to not scare the customers.
I think the Big 3 got swamped by a perfect storm for which they are blameless. The maddening thing is they are innovating and inventing ahead of some of the competition. The maddening thing is they are verging on a renaissance of technology.
Will it be like so many other things that we invent, like VCRs, that we invent and the Japanese buy off and run away with it?
I want my Chevy Volt, damn it! (lol)
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:54 AM
…and preserving him thusly indefinitely on the verge of death, having stolen the funnel and the money for booze from somebody who will go hungry without.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 1:55 AM
The metric is the average for all dollars passed in one years time.
I don’t have a theory cuz I’m not an economist.
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 1:57 AM
You can still have a theory. My general point was that it’s an overly simplistic one, to the point of being wrong. If passing dollars around is one of the most important measures of an economy, then hyperinflation will improve the economy because more dollars will be passed around.
And MB4 is right, that spending isn’t actually down that much in the greater sense. It didn’t “just stop”. It’s just lower than it was before. When people barrow and spend too much money they eventually have to cut back and pay down their debt. It’s the natural order of things.
And this is why chicken little and his friend Bush shouldn’t be trusted.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 2:05 AM
And hopefully, instead of obsessing about using the credit card or a second/third mortgage to buy another big screen TV, people will spend more time with their friends and families or reading books or working on hobbies—and most importantly, remembering, if not learning for the first time, how the real world works rather than the Utopian fantasies that all too many now prefer.
FloatingRock on December 17, 2008 at 2:13 AM
Interesting points here that I have observed:
1.) GM’s (General Motors)finance arm -GMAC Bank- also seems to run the following mortgage broker http://www.ditech.com/about/. Could the housing market bubble implosion have done more harm to GM then we know?
2.) Toyota is no longer a “foreign car” anymore than Ford,GM, or Daimler-Chrysler are “domestic cars”. Chrysler Corp is partially owned by the German Daimler Corp and all foreign carmakers especially Toyota have plants here in the US that make the cars we buy-just as the Big 3 have plants in Russia, Mexico, Canada, and several former Soviet States! It really doesn’t matter where the headquarters for the multinational corporation is….just what kind of product they make.
In my case I find that Toyota and Volvo (Swedish car company) make some pretty damn fine cars based on the fact that I can (and have) driven 2 different Toyotas that were old enough to remember the 1st Bush Administration (one of which is my current vehicle a 1991 Toyota Camry) and a 1994 Volvo which saved my life when I was first learning to drive 4-5 years back. The only domestic I ever had (ironically enough a Ford) quite literally had the transmission explode on me hours from home leaving my stranded with friends for a week.
The Big Three (or at least Two of them) are probably going into the crapper sooner or later….I’d rather it be sooner on their own heads then later with my cash!
Finally I leave you with the
Big Three Business Philosophy Enjoy!
SgtSVJones on December 17, 2008 at 2:24 AM
I could have been a bit clearer in my rant. I only offered that metric as an example of how most of us don’t even perceive how healthy the economy is. As for hyperinflation goes, I can imagine an ecomomy with fast-moving dollars and stable prices.
The consumer economy, for sure, did not just stop. But the money at the top did. The lenders who lend to the lenders who lend to the lenders…. who lend to us… stopped lending to each other.
silverfox on December 17, 2008 at 2:33 AM
LOL. Are you an Aussie?
OldEnglish on December 17, 2008 at 2:36 AM
This was the logic used by some during the New Deal, or at least by the apologists afterwards. But since (minus the Reagan years) we have moving towards statism.
V15J on December 17, 2008 at 3:56 AM
Quoted for truth. Bush let the two stooges Chairman Hank and Chairman Paul lead him down this hell path.
Dritanian on December 17, 2008 at 5:38 AM
enough I have defended you on plenty, but enough.
rob verdi on December 17, 2008 at 6:25 AM
Amazing! Let’s just abandon all sense and lead ourselves to a major economic disaster that will top all others because we want a legacy that is as good as Hoovers?
Go back to the ranch George, take Paulson with you and stump break that SOB.
conservnut on December 17, 2008 at 7:12 AM
Oh my gosh. I have to bite…
Nick, I empathize. It concerns me that these companies which are American stock would go down. But, what troubles me the most is how hamstrung they have been for so long, unable to produce adequate product to compete side-by-side with foreign companies. That is heartbreaking. If they get bailed out, it rewards the wrong. If they get restructured under chapter 11, they stand a fighting chance as a business to clean house and rework their infrastructure.
But, your point is that this would catastrophically kill our economy. This hinges on the premise that these three companies are thee ONLY industries in the US which is total crap. These three are BIG industries…but…we are a nation now of experts. We are skilled and ready to work. We have great ideas and are, largely, hard working. Cars and car parts are also not the only place where machine shops get there business. A lot, yes, but the entire country? THE ENTIRE USA? No. If any blame is to be laid, it is not at the feet of “failed Bush econ. policies” or capitalism. The two major issues were the DEREGULATION of behemoths called Fannie/Freddie and other bureaucratic monstrosities (Um, liberal meddling into areas they need not be) and the labor unions and related lobbying (liberals meddling into areas they need not be.) It benefits them to have crisis, if anything a “generated” crisis…as Biden forewarned. How the heck did he know? hehe. So that they (ala, Rham Emanuel) may “throw long and deep” and usher in some crazy anti-american tripe we wouldn’t normally be predisposed to swallow. Any of this ring a bell?
About Bush and like-minded “republicans”: true conservatives have been aghast for a looooooooooooooong time over this man. He took a dramatic turn to the left, even though he never once earned the praise of his new found constituencies. This is why I now fear the second term…
So, just because this is a RINO president alongside some RINO republicans and democrats does not make this a “consensus” with some crazy fringe conservatives hopping mad on the side lines. No, it makes it a traitorous union between two sides, with neither on the side of reason and logic. Truth is stumbling in the streets and people cannot handle solid doctrine any more in any capacity…
…anyway, that is my .02
Mommypundit on December 17, 2008 at 7:16 AM
1) He never had any free market principles.
2) He hasn’t saved the free market, he has further damaged it.
MarkTheGreat on December 17, 2008 at 7:27 AM
Why is my post saying it is awaiting moderation? I have NEVER seen this before. Hmmmmmm.
Mommypundit on December 17, 2008 at 7:38 AM
+1
The fact is we are in the process of winnowing down bad debt, only the insane Moonbat media could look at this as “a bad sign”….
if only the Feds would do the same thing.
sven10077 on December 17, 2008 at 7:56 AM
Fact is a bailout to the big three will make zero difference. The failed business plan the operate under is not sustainable.
Our government is over 57 Trillion dollars in unfunded debt. Handing money out to every failed business is only going to worsen the situation. Our politicians have destroyed the greatest democracy the world has ever known with their pandering and entitlement policies. This country is nearing total collapse and all we can think of is what is in it for me. Time to lock and load!
trs on December 17, 2008 at 8:10 AM
And how many French or Italian cars have you seen on the road lately? European makes are basically limited to luxury automobiles and little else. Ford competes quite well in Europe for the average buyer and Buick is a top seller in China.
I’m not sure exactly what your point is. Nationalizing the US auto industry might guarantee some union jobs, but you’d end up with a Fiat or a Trabant. And everyone would be paying for it…even if you didn’t own an automobile.
This is insane.
Asher on December 17, 2008 at 8:55 AM
Hell yes! Get rid of the UAW and you have half the problem solved. Then get rid of the terrible mgmt. people who couldn’t stand up to the UAW and voila! a functioning auto industry.
cjs1943 on December 17, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Wise man still carry the water pail for W..
sad.. so sad..
still chasing them windmills.
DaveC on December 17, 2008 at 10:55 AM