Green Room

Salon: Should bestiality be illegal?

posted at 12:41 pm on December 21, 2012 by

It’s important to note that Salon’s Tracy Clark-Flory doesn’t take a position on this difficult question.  Instead, she just offers the post-Lawrence case that it’s really none of our business:

The lawyers aren’t arguing that Romero necessarily has a right to sex with donkeys, or any other farm animals for that matter. They’re specifically targeting the language of Florida’s anti-bestiality law, which does not require proof that an animal has been harmed or “of the sexual activity being non-consensual,” or even of penetrative sexual contact.

The attorneys write, “Therefore, the only possible rational basis for the statute is a moral objection to sexual acts considered deviant or downright ‘disgusting.’” And that, they argue, is unconstitutional: “The personal morals of the majority, whether based on religion or traditions, cannot be used as a reason to deprive a person of their personal liberties.”

If, however, “the statute were to require sexual conduct with animals to be nonconsensual or to cause injury in order to be a crime, then perhaps the State would have a rational basis and legitimate state interest in enforcement,” they write.

It may be an opportunistic defense, sure, but it also brings up some interesting, if squirm-worthy, questions: Why should bestiality be illegal? Is it because it’s socially unacceptable or because it causes harm to animals? If it’s the latter, is it OK for people to have sexual contact with animals in cases where the animal isn’t harmed?

I look forward to the development of the “consenting critters” doctrine.

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Comment pages: 1 2

yes! humans mating with liberals is completely disgusting!

nathor on December 21, 2012 at 12:44 PM

How can they consent. It should be illegal.

rbj on December 21, 2012 at 12:45 PM

It’s important to note that Salon’s Tracy Clark-Flory doesn’t take a position on this difficult question

They condone humans behaving like animals when it comes to sex, but when a human acts like a wild animal in killing defenseless children like prey, it’s the gun’s fault.

The Count on December 21, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Maybe the donkey forced him.

TimBuk3 on December 21, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Incest, bestiality, polygamy pedophilia, all acts that are just as abhorrent as homosexuality that are all going to follow it not only into legality but will be given equal status to marriage between heterosexuals.

It’s coming.

When we reach that point (and we are damn close) you can figure that the end is near. It was called Sodomy for a reason.

wildcat72 on December 21, 2012 at 12:50 PM

Puts the phrase “animal husbandry” in a whole new light.

:shock:

Paul-Cincy on December 21, 2012 at 12:50 PM

yes! humans mating with liberals is completely disgusting!

nathor on December 21, 2012 at 12:44 PM

It can be argued that everyone who has had sex with Sarah Jessica Parker has committed an act of bestiality.

wildcat72 on December 21, 2012 at 12:50 PM

It’s important to note that Salon’s Tracy Clark-Flory doesn’t take a position on this difficult question

Animal-human sex double entendre? :|

Paul-Cincy on December 21, 2012 at 12:54 PM

It was only a matter of time. . ..

totherightofthem on December 21, 2012 at 12:54 PM

Blue State America – where men are Leftist and the free-range goats are nervous.

JimLennon on December 21, 2012 at 12:56 PM

Yeah, so who cares? As long as it is the person’s own animal (not someone elses) and no violence/force/injury is present, AND it is behind closed doors and not distributed (obscenity) I agree that it isn’t the government’s business.

A LOT of things are both legal and gross. Why does the government have a right to get involved in the one area (sex) which is the most private?

kaltes on December 21, 2012 at 12:57 PM

How can they consent. It should be illegal.

rbj on December 21, 2012 at 12:45 PM

I guess if the animal doesn’t turn and bite the offending pe**er off or the offending female in some fashion, it’s tantamount to consent, because they certainly can’t verbalize consent. These people are sick.

totherightofthem on December 21, 2012 at 12:57 PM

And this idea was insulting back when we simply were discussing gay marriage. It was insulting to think that anybody would leverage the gains made with sodomy to argue bestiality.

Sure this article doesn’t advocate it. But the problem with reality is, it’s a long century….

It started with that it was bad manners to peek into other people’s bedrooms, and then it became that we should honor other people’s lifestyles as equivalent simply because they do something different in their bedrooms–which was before none of our business.

If anybody feels that this was insulting, well, you’re welcome to reality.

Axeman on December 21, 2012 at 12:59 PM

kaltes on December 21, 2012 at 12:57 PM

I pity your poor chicken

HotAirian on December 21, 2012 at 1:01 PM

It was only a matter of time. . ..

totherightofthem on December 21, 2012 at 12:54 PM

The real question is, if you marry your dog do you get a tax deduction? If your dog/husband/wife then has sex with Fifi next door, can you get SSDI for PTSD? Can you sue the breeder of the dog for emotional distress? For what health insurance would pay for birth control, can you apply that to dog obedience training?

Paul-Cincy on December 21, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Incest, bestiality, polygamy pedophilia, all acts that are just as abhorrent as homosexuality that are all going to follow it not only into legality but will be given equal status to marriage between heterosexuals.

wildcat72 on December 21, 2012 at 12:50 PM

Incest is already legal. Even if laws against it are still on the books I’m not aware of ANY enforcement of those laws whatsoever.

Polygamy, similarly, might be illegal but many states won’t prosecute it, and the prosecutions that do happen are rare and controversial. There are multiple reality shows about it, aren’t there?

Bestiality is also not usually prosecuted, and the punishments are typically minor when it is.

But then you had to go and put an orange in with those three apples: pedophilia. Pedophilia it not a crime, just like “homosexuality” is not a crime. Homosexuals were prosecuted under sodomy laws. Pedophiles who choose to rape or molest prepubescent children are ALWAYS prosecuted (unless they are famous football coaches) and receive extremely harsh punishments (in California, it is life in prison).

The notion that if we stop wasting taxpayer resources on incest, polygamy, and bestiality, it will necessarily follow that raping little kids will be ok, is ridiculous and absurd. There is something in those cases that don’t exist in the other 3: A REAL VICTIM.

kaltes on December 21, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Durn. Too bad Jamie Foxx is persona non grata. His old stand-up riff on a long-lashed giraffe giving him the sexy-eye (and walk) is hilarious!

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on December 21, 2012 at 1:08 PM

Why not? The moral decline will be complete.

BigGator5 on December 21, 2012 at 1:12 PM

Er, there is a giant loophole in the law, inasmuch as any prohibited action must be committed with intent to arouse or gratify the person. If the intent is to please the animal, no violation occurs.

Silly Florida legislators. Beta males walk away scot-free!

Seth Halpern on December 21, 2012 at 1:18 PM

This is progress for the progressive. They’re just waiting for the opportunity to successfully argue for the decriminalization of pedophilia. With Justice Roberts under the spell of the one, it could be done this term. Or his next.
Once the American people are dissarmed of course.

onomo on December 21, 2012 at 1:29 PM

Welcome to the fruited plains of SODOMerica 2012!!

Just like the old twin cities of Sodom and Gomorrah…but with better technology.

PappyD61 on December 21, 2012 at 1:55 PM

The notion that if we stop wasting taxpayer resources on incest, polygamy, and bestiality, it will necessarily follow that raping little kids will be ok, is ridiculous and absurd. There is something in those cases that don’t exist in the other 3: A REAL VICTIM.

kaltes on December 21, 2012 at 1:08 PM

None of those are victimless crimes either. Incest creates psychological damage, not to mention the prospect of the children of such a union bearing genetic scars their whole lives. Bestiality harms animals. Polygamy is an unstable union that also harms children.

There is only one kind of union that is normal, and that is because it is the only one that produces a stable family that is best for children: That between one man and one woman.

That is why it is the only union that should be recognized by society.

wildcat72 on December 21, 2012 at 1:55 PM

Forgot to add: if you want to see the sad product of incest in an example visible to the public, look at Prince Charles and other degenerate products of centuries of intermarriage amongst European royalty.

wildcat72 on December 21, 2012 at 1:57 PM

Remember when leftists argued we were close-minded homophobes for suggesting same sex marriage would lead to this? Good times. Good times.

Mitoch55 on December 21, 2012 at 1:58 PM

Welcome to the fruited plains of SODOMerica 2012!!

Just like the old twin cities of Sodom and Gomorrah…but with better technology.

PappyD61 on December 21, 2012 at 1:55 PM

And doomed to the same ultimate fate. It’s not enough for the gay lobby that we tolerate their Sodomy, now we are being forced to SANCTIFY it as “normal”. Which it isn’t, which is why they are forcing it on us. If it were normal and acceptable it’s merits would be apparent to all and no such act of force would be necessary.

wildcat72 on December 21, 2012 at 1:58 PM

The few people who regularly read my blog are way ahead of all of you who are snarking about this.

On the other hand, leftists, libertarians, and libertines tore out their hair and rended their garments when Rick Santorum made his off-the-cuff “man on dog” remark, and falsely alleged he “equated” bestiality and homosexuality. He didn’t. He was making the point that Supreme Court Justices Scalia and Rehnquist made earlier (albeit, infinitely more eloquently) that once you say the Constitution prohibits law restricting sexual activities, it opens the (barn) door to claims that every sexual practice — no matter how culturally revolting they are at the moment — ought to be recognized as the equivalent of the type that, y’know, perpetuates the species. Many of you were so busy being blindly enraged you missed the point of what he was trying to say, so it took a leftist writer expresses no judgment of beast bangers to get you to see how right Santorum was — and is.

Much of libertarianism is seems to be based in the belief that humans are not so flawed as to let their society form around their basest instincts. As the United States slouches toward Gomorrah (RIP Robert Bork) and seems to embrace a proto-socialist as their leader, I see no reason for that optimism.

L.N. Smithee on December 21, 2012 at 2:00 PM

Oh how they brayed and bucked when I stated that homosexual “marriage” was just a first step (the Marxist jackasses, not the donkeys).
NAMBLA is trying to take down those pesky age restrictions for the “love” they have for pre-adolescent boys. After all, how can we deny them their “right” to be happy?

Polygamy (which has the best chance for real “consent” and IMHO is the least objectionable change) is celebrated on at least 2 cable shows.
Now the crowning jewel in the Marxist (aka Democrat Party) plan to alter forever the fabric of America is out in the open – beastiality.

But hey, if these partners are “in love” how can you deny them their “rights”? No matter HOW wrong it may be.
This is just one more item of evidence that America died on November 6th.

HammerNH on December 21, 2012 at 2:01 PM

The homosexuals have wanted pedophilia legalized, along with polygamy, since 1972. Just check out their ‘gay rights platform of 1972′, under state agenda, items no 6,7,8. Of course all the libtardtarians will tell you it’s none of the governments business who sleeps with whom. From condoning of ‘victimless’ deviancy like homosexuality to supposedly quasi victimless crimes like bestiality, the next acceptable thing will be pedophilia. And you can be sure that useful idiot libertarians and ‘conservatives’ who now defend ‘gays’ against bigotry will be there every step of the way to help. I would not be surprised to one day find myself called a bigot, by someone claiming to be a conservative no less, for expressing outrage at pedophilia.

avgjo on December 21, 2012 at 2:15 PM

Polygamy has been around for centuries, even that Bible y’all claim to love so much. Stop blaming gays for this foolishness. I am gay and I have no desire to have sex with little boys, little girls or animals. You don’t have to agree with my desire to get married, I don’t even want kids. But stop making us all seem like we are these evil people

nyclakerfan on December 21, 2012 at 2:16 PM

Two thoughts:

1. What’s the age of consent in doggie years?
2. If you offer treats to get them to go along with it, is that prostitution?

Fezzik on December 21, 2012 at 2:17 PM

Avgjo, you are full of shit. You must be talking about a few crazy people. NO ONE I know advocates pedophilia. There are straight male pedophiles who molest and rape little girls. Does that give me the right to make a blanket statement about heterosexual people? No because I am not that stupid.

nyclakerfan on December 21, 2012 at 2:26 PM

I don’t trust homosexuals with children. I remember reading a story written by a homosexual for village voice who talked about how (a) old ‘gay’ men did was seek boys and (b) how popular pedophilic fantasy novels are on ‘gay’ bookstores. Not to mention the long list of famous GAY PEDOPHILES in American history, from Allen Ginsburg to Sandusky, not to mention the whole GAy Pedophile Priest Scandal in the Church a few years ago.

avgjo on December 21, 2012 at 2:27 PM

Hey idiot did you look up what I said about 1972?

And why is PEDO literature so popular in GAY bookstores?

Try answering the question instead of getting snitty.

avgjo on December 21, 2012 at 2:30 PM

Of course all the libtardtarians will tell you it’s none of the governments business who sleeps with whom.

avgjo on December 21, 2012 at 2:15 PM

Moron. Libertarians do not advocate any liberties for someone under the age of 18. Go crawl back under your rock.

John the Libertarian on December 21, 2012 at 2:32 PM

6. Repeal of all state laws prohibiting transvestism and cross-dressing.

7. Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.

8. Repeal of all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit; and the extension of legal benefits to all persons who cohabit regardless of sex or numbers.

http://www.rslevinson.com/gaylesissues/features/collect/onetime/bl_platform1972.htm

avgjo on December 21, 2012 at 2:32 PM

Polygamy has been around for centuries, even that Bible y’all claim to love so much. Stop blaming gays for this foolishness.

nyclakerfan on December 21, 2012 at 2:16 PM

I am not blaming gays for the destruction of marriage. Same-sex marriage is only possible because divorce became easy, because government handouts became more generous if parents weren’t married, and because benefits for shacking up were legislated (partial list). Gays getting married wouldn’t be possible without the institution having been gutted like a fish of all of its previous meaning in society.

L.N. Smithee on December 21, 2012 at 2:35 PM

We shouldn’t be forced to have a scientific reason for judging moral acts. Yet that is exactly where this “God is not in the Constitution” leads us – irrevocably. This is an erroneous path that will only lead to complete and utter degradation – and that’s what liberals want.

We need to find legal arguments against the assumption that the Constitution is a complete moral guide in itself. It was never intended to be so, yet by creating the modern theory of “separation of God and state” (which is what the libs have done), we are left with only the Constitution as a basis for all morality.

momodoom on December 21, 2012 at 2:36 PM

‘Gay’ kid writing about old GAY PEDOPHILES, and how popular pedophilic literature is with GAY PEDOPHILES:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2000-06-20/news/i-hate-older-men/1/

GAY RIGHTS ACTIVIST AND PEDOPHILE Michael Swift:

We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your sports arenas, in your seminaries, in your youth groups, in your movie theater bathrooms, in your army bunkhouses, in your truck stops, in your all male clubs, in your houses of Congress, wherever men are with men together.’

I guess the little weirdo just can’t help himself.

avgjo on December 21, 2012 at 2:36 PM

Hey John, thanks for putting the ‘tard’ in libtard-tarian.

I said they will.

And they will. Libertarians have only one guiding principle: anarchy and do whatever feels good.

Bunch of idiots.

avgjo on December 21, 2012 at 2:37 PM

I should have said ‘only one guiding principle: let everyone do whatever the hell they want, as long they leave me alone’. Wanna mess with donkeys? Fine, just don’t raise my taxes or force your stuffy morality on me, man. And that will change to polygamy, kids whatever.

Libertarian = hippy that likes low taxes.

avgjo on December 21, 2012 at 2:39 PM

The Donkey shouldn’t have dressed like that, all ‘wild lookin’ and stuff. She asked for it.

Mimzey on December 21, 2012 at 2:43 PM

How are we going to wage the upcoming civil war without clear geographical boundaries?

Mason on December 21, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Goodness! I hope that human frolics like playing “Bad Doggie” and “Beauty and the Beast–the home game” won’t get caught up in the crackdown.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on December 21, 2012 at 2:57 PM

Avgjo, you are full of shit. You must be talking about a few crazy people. NO ONE I know advocates pedophilia. There are straight male pedophiles who molest and rape little girls. Does that give me the right to make a blanket statement about heterosexual people? No because I am not that stupid.

nyclakerfan on December 21, 2012 at 2:26 PM

I won’t make a “blanket statement,” but some of those “few crazy people” make a big difference. For example, Larry Brinkin. “Who’s Larry Brinkin?” you may ask.

Meet Larry Brinkin, gay rights pioneer, circa 1989.

Now, meet Larry Brinkin, exposed in 2012 (hope you’ve digested lunch).

L.N. Smithee on December 21, 2012 at 3:07 PM

Blue State America – where men are Leftist and the free-range goats are nervous.

JimLennon on December 21, 2012 at 12:56 PM

I always heard this to be where the men are men, the women are too, and the sheep run scared.

Parabellum on December 21, 2012 at 3:08 PM

In what perverted world is nonconsensual sex with an animal not harming the animal? I mean, really?

I’ll get flamed for this but as an agnostic this is why I love religion. When left to figure out morality on our own, we tend to fail miserably.

jhffmn on December 21, 2012 at 3:10 PM

“What’s next, man and DOG?”

“Stop making slippery-slope arguments, we’re just talking about The Gays, here. Nobody’s talking about men and animals, so stop bring stupid comparisons into my obviously logical discussion!”

The Schaef on December 21, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Gee… this wasn’t predictable or anything.

SAMinVA on December 21, 2012 at 3:14 PM

Incest, bestiality, polygamy pedophilia, all acts that are just as abhorrent as homosexuality that are all going to follow it not only into legality but will be given equal status to marriage between heterosexuals…

wildcat72 on December 21, 2012 at 12:50 PM

Funny how no one ever publicly defended bestiality rights until homosexuality rights became settled firmly into law.

And how many liberals scoffed at those of us who warned that granting normalcy to homosexuality was the camel’s nose under the tent (no pun intended).

itsnotaboutme on December 21, 2012 at 3:30 PM

Remember when they said we were nuts for using the slippery slope argument concerning gay marriage?

Yeah, we’re nuts alright.. they’re already laying out the groundwork for making it legal.

ButterflyDragon on December 21, 2012 at 3:54 PM

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