Green Room

Once more, with feeling: More guns = less crime

posted at 5:02 pm on November 26, 2012 by

Criminals will always be able to obtain firearms — the best and most effective antidote to this reality is allowing law-abiding citizens to arm themselves, plain and simple.

Gun-related violence has fallen steadily since 2006 in Virginia despite record firearm sales, according to a university professor’s analysis. …

Baker’s analysis shows the number of gun purchases soared 73 percent in the six-year period, while gun-related violent crimes fell 24 percent.

Baker, who specializes in research methods and criminology theory, said the comparison seems to contradict the premise that more guns lead to more crime in Virginia.

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….But Columbine! And Virginia Tech! and Batman! and don’t forget Gabby Giffords!

/leftwingfearmongering.

vegconservative on November 26, 2012 at 5:06 PM

Since all those examples listed involved someone using a gun to hurt other people, we should ban all guns. Besides, they serve no other purpose (than to hurt innocent people) and they really do not have any legitimate uses.

/leftwinglogic

Also, most of these incidents occurred in or near Colorado… so let’s ban Colorado also!

/same.logic.as.before

Jack Slade on November 26, 2012 at 5:19 PM

Hey, the leftists tried banning Colorado (or something close to it) in Atlas Shrugged. Rand was right!

Alright, Brady Bill Bunch, riddle me this: Where was the promised explosion of gun violence after the Assault Weapons ban expired in 2004?

And where is the promised explosion of violence by law-abiding gun owners in Chicago after Macdonald and Heller?

Mohonri on November 26, 2012 at 5:26 PM

Gun-related violence has fallen steadily since 2006 in Virginia despite record firearm sales,

I love how they just scratch their collective heads. Must be bad data, time for another Government paid for study.

WisRich on November 26, 2012 at 5:26 PM

I love how they just scratch their collective heads. Must be bad data, time for another Government paid for study.

WisRich on November 26, 2012 at 5:26 PM

They’re just waiting for the dust to settle so they can use the ready for prime time study known as Fast and Furious.

antipc on November 26, 2012 at 5:34 PM

Yeah. We had a neighbor just get arrested last month for exposing himself to two women in the neighborhood.

Which made us think; last year we had someone in our back yard, who we think was looking in a window while my daughter was in the kitchen cleaning up.

Later my wife related to this neighbor (prior to his arrest–he seemed like a pretty decent guy and committed father) that since I was at work, another friend had come over with his shotgun and checked that the yard was clear.

Our (now we know) pervy neighbor was a little taken aback that someone had a shotgun. My wife assured him that we have one as well.

After the fact, we’re now wondering if it was him, and if his life wasn’t passing before his eyes as he realized how things might have turned out differently for him. And no-one has been in the backyard since.

TexasDan on November 26, 2012 at 5:35 PM

More guns, less crime. Oh, the irony!

LizardLips on November 26, 2012 at 5:38 PM

Kansas just did a study that around .09% of CCW holders have committed a gun crime over the past 5 years. (Less than 1/10 of 1%, for you math-challenged)

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/nov/19/kansas-conceal-carry-holders-commit-few-gun-crimes/

cptacek on November 26, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Irony also, considering how easily gun control addicts elide from gun crime rates to gun ownership rates. There are countries with far higher gun ownership percentages than the US — Switzerland and Israel, for two examples. Both have exceedingly low violent crime rates.

The one statistic that never seems to get cited is, how many crimes are committed by those with illegally-obtained guns vs. legally-obtained guns. And there’s a reason that statistic is never cited. Gun control advocates think it’s irrelevant, a gun’s a gun, and if we pass the right law, guns will magically disappear and gentle unicorns will pull our oxcarts through our peaceful urban ghettos. 2nd Amendment zealots think almost any restriction on gun acquisition or registration requirement is the thin edge of totalitarianism. But I think it’s entirely relevant: when guns are lawful, the lawful have guns. And outlaws should fear the lawful when they try to prey on them. No criminal in Britain fears much of anything, and home invasion is becoming something of a sport there.

Zumkopf on November 26, 2012 at 5:58 PM

cptacek made my point in a fraction of the words. Nicely done.

I would further wager that more than 1/10th of 1% of Kansans have committed gun crimes over a five-year period, making CCW holders LESS likely than the general population to commit them.

But something tells me this argument will never be about facts to the left; it’s feelings that count. They hate violence, therefore ban guns. Well, I don’t hate violence; I hate violent men. There’s a difference. And I want to be in a position to defeat violent men, whether they’re bigger than me or not, and no matter what weapons they decide to bring to their ambush. There is no moral superiority in being raped or murdered.

Zumkopf on November 26, 2012 at 6:09 PM

The one statistic that never seems to get cited is, how many crimes are committed by those with illegally-obtained guns vs. legally-obtained guns. And there’s a reason that statistic is never cited. Gun control advocates think it’s irrelevant, a gun’s a gun, and if we pass the right law, guns will magically disappear and gentle unicorns will pull our oxcarts through our peaceful urban ghettos. 2nd Amendment zealots think almost any restriction on gun acquisition or registration requirement is the thin edge of totalitarianism. But I think it’s entirely relevant: when guns are lawful, the lawful have guns. And outlaws should fear the lawful when they try to prey on them. No criminal in Britain fears much of anything, and home invasion is becoming something of a sport there.

Zumkopf on November 26, 2012 at 5:58 PM

Either that, or it’s “legal gun ownership is just a pipeline to illegally get guns to criminals”.

Count to 10 on November 26, 2012 at 6:13 PM

gentle unicorns will pull our oxcarts through our peaceful urban ghettos

Thanks for that.

Well, and all of it, but especially that.

TexasDan on November 26, 2012 at 6:20 PM

….But Columbine! And Virginia Tech! and Batman! and don’t forget Gabby Giffords!

/leftwingfearmongering.

vegconservative on November 26, 2012 at 5:06 PM

And of course they always try to ignore the fact that most of these mass shootings occur in gun free zones – or rather “defenseless victim zones”.

The one attempt we had here in Colorado Springs a couple years ago – New Life Church (2 miles from my house) – was ended in the church entryway by a church member doing security with a CCW. Although the psycho killed a few people in the parking lot (young girls, no less) on the way in, the female guard killed him before he could get into the main sanctuary where there were still hundreds of people.

dentarthurdent on November 26, 2012 at 6:36 PM

Alright, Brady Bill Bunch, riddle me this: Where was the promised explosion of gun violence after the Assault Weapons ban expired in 2004?

And where is the promised explosion of violence by law-abiding gun owners in Chicago after Macdonald and Heller?

Mohonri on November 26, 2012 at 5:26 PM

Hmmmmmmmm – and on the other hand, what cities have the highest violent crime rates? Could it possibly be those with the strictest gun control laws????

dentarthurdent on November 26, 2012 at 6:40 PM

Zumkopf on November 26, 2012 at 5:58 PM

… No criminal in Britain fears much of anything, and home invasion is becoming something of a sport there.

Yea, and on top of total gun confiscation the Brits have outlawed swords. Ball point pens will be next no doubt.

Missilengr on November 26, 2012 at 6:43 PM

Also, most of these incidents occurred in or near Colorado… so let’s ban Colorado also!

/same.logic.as.before

Jack Slade on November 26, 2012 at 5:19 PM

Denver area (Dem controlled) – Columbine is in Highlands Ranch on the south edge of Denver; the theater shooting was in Aurora on the east edge of Denver.
See my comment above about the one attempted mass shooting in Colorado Springs (Republican controlled).
So PLEASE ban the Dem controlled parts of Colorado.

dentarthurdent on November 26, 2012 at 6:45 PM

Ball point pens will be next no doubt.

Missilengr on November 26, 2012 at 6:43 PM

Especially the click retractable kind – they qualify as concealed weapons…../

dentarthurdent on November 26, 2012 at 6:46 PM

And outlaws should fear the lawful when they try to prey on them.

Zumkopf on November 26, 2012 at 5:58 PM

As it should be. Amen.

GWB on November 26, 2012 at 7:04 PM

So PLEASE ban the Dem controlled parts of Colorado.

dentarthurdent on November 26, 2012 at 6:45 PM

If only we could, then Colorado could return to fiscal sanity.

Jack Slade on November 26, 2012 at 7:16 PM

Better to be judged by 12 than carried out by 6.

Imrahil on November 26, 2012 at 7:17 PM

Wait till OboobaCare makes disclosure of gun ownership a requirement for being covered, and adjusts premiums accordingly.

Akzed on November 26, 2012 at 7:20 PM

Ball point pens will be next no doubt.

Missilengr on November 26, 2012 at 6:43 PM

Well, to be fair, they are mightier.

DrAllecon on November 26, 2012 at 7:32 PM

Well, to be fair, they are mightier.

DrAllecon on November 26, 2012 at 7:32 PM

Touche’
Nice one!!

dentarthurdent on November 26, 2012 at 8:11 PM

And the Hot Gassers ask quietly, wonder what Erika has in her purse.

My money says a Ruger Security Six in .357 mag.

CorporatePiggy on November 26, 2012 at 8:46 PM

2nd Amendment zealots…

Zumkopf on November 26, 2012 at 5:58 PM

Just curious. Have you ever referred to “1st Amendment zealots?”

CurtZHP on November 26, 2012 at 9:03 PM

I know people who have guns. I don’t f*** with said people. End of story. Here’s Tom with the weather…

ahlaphus on November 26, 2012 at 11:16 PM

And the Hot Gassers ask quietly, wonder what Erikahas in her purse.

My money says a Ruger Security Six in .357 mag.

CorporatePiggy on November 26, 2012 at 8:46 PM

I happen to own a stainless Police Service Six (fixed sights) with a 2 3/4″ barrel and a most excellent trigger job. It is a magnificent edifice of a weapon. Usually, I carry my Glock 23, but if I’m feeling nostalgic…

M240H on November 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM

Sure this is real world and factual numbers but I bet leftists feel things would be different if only we had strict gun laws. You know like the peaceful and safe cities of chicago, NYNY, Atlanta, and any other democrat run big city you can name.

RESULTS mean nothing to feelings of leftists and their ideas of socialist Utopia.

jukin3 on November 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM

Gun-related violence has fallen steadily since 2006 in Virginia despite record firearm sales,

I love how they just scratch their collective heads. Must be bad data, time for another Government paid for study.

WisRich on November 26, 2012 at 5:26 PM

They aren’t scratching their heads, they are out there spouting nonsense. Nonsense that establishes the Uselessness of their own position if you examine what they are actually saying.

Andrew Goddard, president of the Virginia Center for Public Safety that lobbies for gun control, questioned the significance of the statistics.

“It’s quite possible that you can sell a whole lot more guns and crime is still going down,” Goddard said. “But is the crime going down because more people are buying guns, or is the crime going down because the crime is going down?”

So None of your predictions come true, and the exact opposite happens and it was PURE Coincidence?

Maybe you’re just plain wrong Idiot!

jaydee_007 on November 26, 2012 at 11:40 PM

“It’s quite possible that you can sell a whole lot more guns and crime is still going down,” Goddard said. “But is the crime going down because more people are buying guns, or is the crime going down because the crime is going down?”

The question is actually irrelevant, and just one more example of moving the goalposts.

Lefties claim that more guns will – as a matter of course – lead to more crime.

There are more guns, and less crime. Their hypothesis is not true. The reason is actually secondary.

Washington Nearsider on November 27, 2012 at 7:05 AM

….But Columbine! And Virginia Tech! and Batman! and don’t forget Gabby Giffords!

/leftwingfearmongering.

vegconservative on November 26, 2012 at 5:06 PM

Ahh, but it is fearmongering for the greater good.

Fearmongering = Gun Bans = easier for government to grab total control.

Odysseus on November 27, 2012 at 7:23 AM

Guns don’t kill people, twinkies do.

tommy71 on November 27, 2012 at 8:41 AM

Hmmmmmmmm – and on the other hand, what cities have the highest violent crime rates? Could it possibly be those with the strictest gun control laws????

dentarthurdent on November 26, 2012 at 6:40 PM

Well no kidding!

Guns flood in from all the lenient states and must be banned!

/anti-gun moonbat

roy_batty on November 27, 2012 at 11:15 AM

Sure this is real world and factual numbers but I bet leftists feel things would be different if only we had strict gun laws. You know like the peaceful and safe cities of chicago, NYNY, Atlanta, and any other democrat run big city you can name.

RESULTS mean nothing to feelings of leftists and their ideas of socialist Utopia.

jukin3 on November 26, 2012 at 11:29 PM

Atlanta is run by democrats, but we do NOT have strict gun laws like those other cities. We used to have some city ordinances that violated the state law, until GeorgiaCarry sued to have them blocked, and also some recent 2nd ammendment friendly laws were passed in GA.
You can get a permit with a only background check; we are a shall issue state. With a permit, you can now (recently passed) carry on public transportation and in city parks. You can carry in the open or concealed. The areas that are still off limits include schools and college campuses, churches, post offices and government buildings (this last one is vague.) However, you can still have your weapon in your car glove compartment when on a school campus.

That being said, I believe the college campus exclusion is unconstitutional and has caused much recent debate as there are plenty of GA Tech students who are known to be unarmed, getting robbed of their phones and laptops. One student even awoke in his dorm room to find armed thugs going through his things. The college president blames the students for not being aware.

cep on November 27, 2012 at 1:04 PM