Green Room

Video: Israel’s Iron Dome missile-defense system in action(?)

posted at 10:56 pm on November 15, 2012 by

Question mark in the headline because I can’t prove that this is what it purports to be, but the word on Twitter is that this is Iron Dome in all its glory. I sure hope so; the mellow groove in the background as sophisticated missile-shield technology goes to work makes it magical. 90 seconds of pure Israel.

Supposedly they’ve knocked down over 130 Hamas rockets thus far. But more importantly:

https://twitter.com/JeffreyGoldberg/status/269263020054695936

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Pretty amazing, kind of reminds me of missile command.

PA-Cman on November 15, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Yes, that’s Iron Dome. You can remove the Q-mark.

Ask yourself how much each missile costs to shoot down a metal-shop-made katyusha.

What’s needed is an Iron Coffin – for Gaza.

Just so no one is confused, Goldberg’s tweet is about Fajar rockets being destroyed on the ground in their hiding locations and has nothing to do with Iron Dome.

Also, if Iron Dome knocked out 130 katyushas, ask yourself about the 100s more that made it through. Iron dome is a nice toy but a failure, both as a defense shield and therefore as a strategic defense method. But it makes people feel better and it’s fun to watch.

Shy Guy on November 15, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Sweet. Would probably be demoralizing to the terrorists … had they any (morals, that is).

ShainS on November 15, 2012 at 11:24 PM

Shy Guy on November 15, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Thanks for some of that info.

My understanding (anecdotal from an Israeli, former IDF Intelligence) is that Iron Dome only targets those missiles headed for population centers — and is over 90% successful — while it allows the others to pass and land where no lives are in danger.

ShainS on November 15, 2012 at 11:28 PM

Shy Guy on November 15, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Your credentials please and some back up.

Vince on November 15, 2012 at 11:34 PM

I saw video on Fox News this morning with Leland Vittert
with cameras pointed at the pod with red light flashing. Then rockets firing into the sky making last minute flight adjustments and exploding. Not all the missiles are intercepted but many were.

d1carter on November 15, 2012 at 11:40 PM

Shy Guy on November 15, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Your credentials please and some back up.

Vince on November 15, 2012 at 11:34 PM

Why does he need credentials to post?

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/153623

A primitive Kassam rocket costs terrorists only a few hundred dollars while each Iron Dome anti-missile missile costs $50,000.

sharrukin on November 15, 2012 at 11:43 PM

d1carter on November 15, 2012 at 11:40 PM

BTW, he said that each firing was $50,000.

d1carter on November 15, 2012 at 11:43 PM

Why does he need credentials to post?
sharrukin on November 15, 2012 at 11:43 PM

Who said he does? He said the Iron Dome was a failure but the article you linked to says it has a 90% success rate. I was asking what makes him the authority on this.

My comment is typed in English.

Vince on November 15, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Your credentials please

Vince on November 15, 2012 at 11:34 PM

Who said he does?

Vince on November 15, 2012 at 11:51 PM

sharrukin on November 15, 2012 at 11:55 PM

sharrukin on November 15, 2012 at 11:55 PM

Where in the heck do I say he needs credentials to post? Here, I’ll type slower. I want him to back up his comment that the Iron Dome is a failure. What makes him make such an authoitative statement?

Also, if Iron Dome knocked out 130 katyushas, ask yourself about the 100s more that made it through. Iron dome is a nice toy but a failure, both as a defense shield and therefore as a strategic defense method. But it makes people feel better and it’s fun to watch.

Shy Guy on November 15, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Vince on November 16, 2012 at 12:00 AM

So far my friends who I went to high school with in Israel have not been called up. Some of them have recently completed their 3 years ( the guys at least) and are waiting to see if they will be one of the 30,000 to be called up. It’s rather interesting watching facebook as those on active duty are posting about the situation- some of which is quickly deleted once people are like ” uhhh you should not be posting this…. ” lose lips sink ships.”

aebloo on November 16, 2012 at 12:07 AM

I want him to back up his comment that the Iron Dome is a failure. What makes him make such an authoitative statement?

Also, if Iron Dome knocked out 130 katyushas, ask yourself about the 100s more that made it through. Iron dome is a nice toy but a failure, both as a defense shield and therefore as a strategic defense method. But it makes people feel better and it’s fun to watch.

Shy Guy on November 15, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Vince on November 16, 2012 at 12:00 AM

He makes that clear in the post. Iron Dome can only stop a certain number of rockets and those rockets are dirt cheap. They can obviously overwhelm such a system of defense even with non-vehicle mounted launchers. The cost also means that Israel will be paying a significant amount of money to stop a weapon that costs very little. Israel could take out the launch sites easily with air-strikes, or utilize counter-battery artillery at less cost and to greater effect as a deterrent.

Iron Dome only exists because Israel doesn’t want to do what will effectively end the threat, because that looks bad on TV. Of course they have to do that periodically anyway, as we are currently seeing.

sharrukin on November 16, 2012 at 12:12 AM

It’s not that they don’t want to, sharrukin.

It’s that right now is not a good time to do what they want to do. Once there’s little left to lose, THEN it’s a good time.

Have faith in Israel, as they will do the right thing at the right time.

UODuckMan on November 16, 2012 at 12:42 AM

It’s not that they don’t want to, sharrukin.

It’s that right now is not a good time to do what they want to do. Once there’s little left to lose, THEN it’s a good time.

Have faith in Israel, as they will do the right thing at the right time.

UODuckMan on November 16, 2012 at 12:42 AM

They should be wary of waiting too long because the forces are gathering. Egypt, Syria, Gaza, Iran and Libya. They didn’t do well when they went into Lebanon against Hezbollah, and I hope they learned from that and made improvements, because they only have to lose once.

If Iran gets a nuke then they will be under a lot of pressure from Europe and Obama to surrender their nukes in exchange, and some idiot left wing Israeli government might just do that.

sharrukin on November 16, 2012 at 12:47 AM

Vince, some Iron Dome articles for you to read.

What Sharrukin said: “Iron Dome only exists because Israel doesn’t want to do what will effectively end the threat, because that looks bad on TV.”

All based on misguided and actually immoral modern secular Israeli humanitarianism. Witness the insanity.

I’ll say it again: Gaza needs to be Dresdenized.

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 12:47 AM

Have faith in Israel, as they will do the right thing at the right time.

UODuckMan on November 16, 2012 at 12:42 AM

Sorry but the right time was 13 years ago.

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 12:49 AM

Shy Guy, I say this as a man with connections in the IDF who are working on this precise issue: Shut up, sit down, and drink your juice. You know nothing of what’s going on, and until such time as things are revealed, your “expertise” is nothing more than jack crap.

Sharrukin: Ever heard of something called the Six Day War? Yeah, don’t count things out.

UODuckMan on November 16, 2012 at 12:53 AM

OUDuckman, you can talk about what will be all you want. Israel’s record of weakness and capitulation speaks for itself.

I’ll drink my juice (hey, breakfast time here), while you have a second cup of STFU.

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 12:58 AM

Here’s an article link that really goes to the heart of Israel’s problem:

Baffled in Sderot, by Moshe Feiglin

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 1:00 AM

Sharrukin: Ever heard of something called the Six Day War? Yeah, don’t count things out.

UODuckMan on November 16, 2012 at 12:53 AM

Yes, I have and I wonder if Israel is capable of replicating that.

The Arab nations have advanced since then and Egypt in particular has had American training and assistance with their air force and industrial production. They have a significant force of theater range ballistic missiles (Sakr-80/FROG-7) and the Hwasong-6 is said to have a CEP of 50 meters.

These alone could do significant damage to Israel’s conventional trump card, it’s air force. Even the Scud’s loaded with cluster munitions could be used against runways and parking ramps. It would take any great number of accurate missiles to severely damage the Israeli air force, and the cluster warheads could keep the runways out of service for 30 minutes while the Egyptian air force made its run.

Their rocket forces are large as well and include the production of the American MLRS. Iron Dome would be overwhelmed tactically.

As it stands the Sinai isn’t garrisoned with significant Egyptian forces but that could change in a month or less.

sharrukin on November 16, 2012 at 1:10 AM

Here’s an article link that really goes to the heart of Israel’s problem:

Baffled in Sderot, by Moshe Feiglin
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.co.il/2012/11/baffled-in-sderot.html

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 1:00 AM

Wars are won in the will, and if the people of Israel lack faith in their own cause, the will to fight won’t be there.

sharrukin on November 16, 2012 at 1:23 AM

This is indeed Iron Dome in action. That day there was a 9-rocket spread intercepted.

The ‘mellow groove’ is in the background, because this was filmed at a wedding.

Phoenician on November 16, 2012 at 2:59 AM

Latma’s song video of the week: The Language of the Arab Man

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 3:37 AM

He makes that clear in the post. Iron Dome can only stop a certain number of rockets and those rockets are dirt cheap.

sharrukin on November 16, 2012 at 12:12 AM

Rockets we are talking about are not cheap. Made in and by Iran, they are not only not cheap, but cost a bit more on top of that to smuggle to Gaza. The more that are destroyed the more Iran has to spend to re-arm Gaza. If they actually decide to after seeing so many destroyed in Iron Shield.

(Cheap) Kassam never make it out far out of Gaza area, those are the ones you reference, but they are not the ones intercepted in the video.

90% success rate is way more than anyone in USA or Russian can deliver last time I checked. As stated, the other 10% most likely fall outside of populated areas, so why make an effort to destroy them?

I lived in Ashdod during the 1973 Yom Kippur war. Probably the most European city in Israel these days, shame its under attacks now. Its a beautiful city.

riddick on November 16, 2012 at 4:03 AM

riddick on November 16, 2012 at 4:03 AM

As far as is known, no long range Iranian Fajars have gone airborne. They were pretty much destroyed in the concealed locations.

What’s being intercepted now are essentially short (20km) and long range (40km) Grad rockets. They are essentially katyushas. Unlike Fajars, katyushas are relatively easy to make and cheap.

As for Iron Dome’s 90% success rate, the remaining 10% is what’s assumed to be heading toward a populated area, not the ones with a trajectory to Nowheresville. That means some 20-40 Grads hit populated areas over the last few days.

Iron Dome does not resolve the problem of letting people live normal lives. While it prevents casualties and damage, some 1 million Israelis are living on whit’s end – many of them for over a decade.

A good offense is the best defense. Even Israel’s Cast Lead offensive 4 years ago was a bad offense. Any amateur was able to tell Ehud Olmert and Ehud Barak that the ground offensive would leave a lasting impression for a month or 2, no more.

Gaza needs to be destroyed.

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 4:28 AM

The 90% success rate is taken from a Jerusalem Post article from early 2012.

Here’s something from last month. Note that an IDF spokesmen is who is being interviewed:

Is Iron Dome a Failure? The IDF Explains

Iron Dome is a white elephant and a poor crutch.

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 4:46 AM

Commanders Prepare Troops for Ground Invasion

The same ol’ same ol’.

Operation Cast Lead II. Will be followed by III in a few more years.

Our children will [again] be used as cannon fodder because Israel is chicken-sh*t scared to do what really has to be done.

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 4:51 AM

Red alert in Tel Aviv again.

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 6:30 AM

My friend who just finished his service this week (infantry ) got called up today.

aebloo on November 16, 2012 at 7:02 AM

Rocket landed in open area in TLV

aebloo on November 16, 2012 at 7:04 AM

A nephew and neighbor’s boys called up today.

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 7:14 AM

Iron Dome only exists because Israel doesn’t want to do what will effectively end the threat, because that looks bad on TV. Of course they have to do that periodically anyway, as we are currently seeing.

sharrukin on November 16, 2012 at 12:12 AM

Doesn’t want to, or knows they won’t get support if they do? They’re a tiny country surrounded by a lot of enemies. They need allies.

Esthier on November 16, 2012 at 8:55 AM

This needs to be promoted from Green Room to the front-page. Didn’t Ed already claim that it’s a slow news week? Definitely doesn’t feel like that here in Israel. When half the people you know are either being called up or are running for shelter with 130+ decibel air raid sirens going off at all hours of the night with no sleep… and the New York Times blares the headline “IDF Bombards Gaza” while American TV News goes off on whether some official had an affair?

God Almighty is the world screwed up

solatic on November 16, 2012 at 8:55 AM

Irondome may seem expensive for the smaller rockets in the Hamas arsenal. It would seem like pennies for larger rockets like the Scuds and worse.

dddave on November 16, 2012 at 9:05 AM

Esthier on November 16, 2012 at 8:55 AM

Being discussed here but the real reason is what I linked to before.

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 9:10 AM

It would seem like pennies for larger rockets like the Scuds and worse.

dddave on November 16, 2012 at 9:05 AM

I don’t think they work on the bigger faster missiles. That’s why we have the Arrow.

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 9:13 AM

Tell me again that leftards are not antisemitic?

http://blog.thecst.org.uk/?p=3931#

Blake on November 16, 2012 at 9:25 AM

Breaking: 4:50 Alarm sounds in Jerusalem area (Haaretz)

aebloo on November 16, 2012 at 10:07 AM

Shy Guy, you are in Israel, correct? I thought you had said that yesterday, but I could be wrong. If my recollection is correct, please be safe.

Throat Wobbler Mangrove on November 16, 2012 at 11:06 AM

If the system can calculate where the missiles will land, it can calculate where the missiles were launched from, with bad consequences for the Pallies doing the launching. Here’s where the potential savings comes in. Gaza is shallow and the launch areas could be targeted with artillery in many cases.

claudius on November 16, 2012 at 11:25 AM

What is amazing is that when you watch this you realize that somewhere there are IDF members frantically working as hard as they can to protect their fellow Israelis from the missiles….they know they have to knock down every one.

Yet on the Hamas side we know that the attitude is just the opposite…they place their weapons among civilians with the knowledge that either the Israelis will refrain from destroying them or that they may inadvertently kill some human shields. From the hamas perspective, they win either way.

This is why there is collateral damage on the Gaza side but not on the israeli side. It is because that which the Israelis 8and the West in general) calls “collateral damage”, Hamas calls “targets”.

Blaise on November 16, 2012 at 1:30 PM

Iron Dome is not a failure. The people saying that it is have no understanding of basic military defense. Iron dome is not meant to be a sole, exclusive defense. If it was, then it would obviously not be adequate. However, as the last line of defense in a multi-layered approach, it is very effective.

It is not as simple as Hamas making a rocket for a few hundred dollars and then firing it. The rocket must be made, stored, taken out of storage, moved into a firing position, and fired. Then the team who fired it has to withdraw. At any stage of this process, Israel can attack and disrupt it. Despite Israel’s best efforts, it can’t stop ALL the rockets this way. Some will sneak through. That is where Iron Dome comes in: even when Hamas manages to get, lets say 10% or 20%, of its rockets into firing position and attack populated areas, they still have to fire so many rockets that Iron Dome would get saturated, which requires 50-100 rockets or so. This would effectively stop the vast majority of rocket attacks that leak through, since they dont launch anywhere near that number. Also, forcing Hamas to concentrate its attacks better to launch more rockets at once makes it EASIER to stop them at an earlier stage. It is a lot easier to stop a whole battery of rockets than to stop 1 pickup truck with a tarp over the back.

So what Iron Dome does is drastically blunt the effectiveness of what gets through in the Hamas score column, while Israel is free to ravage Hamas with attacks. It doesn’t matter that Iron Dome is expensive, because it isn’t meant to take on and defeat the bulk of enemy rockets, only the ones Israel can’t stop with other operations. Israel is forced to engage in offensive operations like this periodically to stop Hamas from building up enough rockets to actually do serious damage.

kaltes on November 16, 2012 at 3:05 PM

Is Iron Dome a Failure? The IDF Explains

Iron Dome is a white elephant and a poor crutch.

Shy Guy on November 16, 2012 at 4:46 AM

Your link says:

Of the 86 rockets that were launched from Gaza into Israel in recent days, only 8 were intercepted by the Iron Dome air defense system. This appears to be a relatively small success rate when considering the billions of dollars that went into its development.

That statement is nonsense. Read literally, it means that 8 rockets were intercepted out of 8 attempts, for a 100% success rate. The other 78 rockets were not attempted to be intercepted, perhaps because the system deemed them not a threat to populated areas. The writer goes on to draw the conclusion that the system is bad because it has a low “success rate” but his conclusion does not follow from his premise. A system only has a low success rate when it (1) fails to engage a target it was supposed to engage, or (2) engages a target and fails to destroy/divert it. Nothing in the article suggests that Iron Dome attempted to engage more than 8, or that more than 8 were supposed to be engaged.

My prior post is backed up here:

Iron Dome is one component in an over-arcing package that we use to stop the rocket fire.

That is exactly what I said above.

Another reason there arent more interceptions? Maybe there isnt ENOUGH COVERAGE:

We only have four batteries deployed. So for a system that’s only about a year and a half old we still have a lot to learn from it, a lot to tweak. And once we increase the number of batteries and the quality of batteries it will show itself to be more and more effective. The fact that were continually able to increase its abilities means it’s a system that’s paying off.

Finally, the man has some common sense:

A lot of people don’t think the cost makes sense. The qassam rockets being fired cost $800, while the interceptor missiles cost $35,000 but the cost of the damage of a hit is far worse than that.

The economic value of a typical human life in a developed country is on the order of 1 million dollars. This means between $100k and $10m. That is a wide range because some people are pretty worthless while others are extremely valuable. The risk of loss of life, in addition to property damage, of a rocket that Iron Dome has already determined to be a “hit” in a populated area, are well over $35,000 on average. A single bad hit could cause millions of dollars in damage.

kaltes on November 16, 2012 at 3:18 PM