Green Room

Richard Mourdock’s Akin-esque Gaffe

posted at 7:44 am on October 24, 2012 by

An emergency memo needs to be sent out.  The words “rape” and “pregnancy” shall never be used in the same sentence ever again – especially for Republican candidates. This latest incident involving Indiana Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock is another example that some Republicans are incapable of holding back their socially conservative beliefs in an election where such views don’t matter.  In short, a woman getting raped and becoming pregnancy as a result maybe “something that God intended to happen ,” according to Mr. Mourdock.

Media outlets salivate over stories like this.  CBS News reported at 11:00pm last night on the subject.  Aaron Blake at The Washington Post also reported on this event last night.

‘I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is that gift from God,’ Mourdock said at a debate. ‘And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.’

(Video of the remark has been removed from YouTube but is available here from CSPAN.)

Mourdock appeared to be choking up as he made the comments. He also noted that, while he doesn’t believe in abortion in the case of rape and incest, he does believe it should be used to save the life of the mother.

Democrats immediately pounced on the comment, suggesting that Mourdock was saying God intended for rapes to occur.

‘The God I believe in and the God I know most Hoosiers believe in, does not intend for rape to happen — ever,’ Mourdock’s opponent, Rep. Joe Donnelly (D), said in a statement. ‘What Mr. Mourdock said is shocking, and it is stunning that he would be so disrespectful to survivors of rape.’

Mourdock’s campaign clarified after the debate that Mourdock was not saying that God intends for rapes to occur.

God creates life, and that was my point,’ Mourdock said in the statement. ‘God does not want rape, and by no means was I suggesting that he does. Rape is a horrible thing, and for anyone to twist my words otherwise is absurd and sick.’

It’s fine to say God creates life, but you don’t have to invoke rape to convey that point.  There is nothing wrong with social conservatism, but this is an election about the economy.  It’s the Democrats who want to make it an election about abortion, contraception, and other goodies that drive their base into a frenzy over the so-called Republican ‘war on women,’ and Mourdock didn’t help us pivot away from that whirlpool.

Furthermore, in a race as critical as Indiana, I would have assumed Mourdock would’ve tread more carefully answering the question.  You can’t count Rep. Joe Donnelly out of this race.

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It’s been hard to tell which candidate is the Republican in this race. The only ads which even mention Donnelly’s party affiliation are Mourdock’s

Donnelly tries to do the Evan Bayh thing, in which he presents himself to the voters as a conservative, but votes liberal.

JimLennon on October 24, 2012 at 8:25 AM

This is why candidates need to be careful to avoid deep theological issues because few understand even an inkling of the difference between God’s permissive will and God’s perfect will.

Imrahil on October 24, 2012 at 8:40 AM

Instead of educating people and having them face realities, what we need to do is keep them in the dark and treat them with malignant kid gloves.

Like the parent that keeps their kids environment completely germ free for much of their life leaving them vulnerable to any disease they do come into contact with, as well as many other afflictions such as allergies the Republicans refuse to bring forward harsh realities that when explained fully make total sense to most people leaving them at the mercy to any harsh reality that eventually must come out at some point.

A life is a life, god creates all life, if it happens as a result of a rape, that child is no less God’s child than any other child. They are all given the spark of life and individuality by God. If it hurts your feelings, tough, it is far better your feelings are hurt than a child’s life is extinguished because we told you lies to make you feel better about your barbaric act of exterminating one of God’s creations.

astonerii on October 24, 2012 at 8:45 AM

Couldn’t he have ummed and erred his way through an answer this close to election day? Seems one litmus test for running for public office is how stupid are you?

Kissmygrits on October 24, 2012 at 9:16 AM

This is why candidates need to be careful to avoid deep theological issues because few understand even an inkling of the difference between God’s permissive will and God’s perfect will.

Imrahil on October 24, 2012 at 8:40 AM

It appears that even believers have trouble understanding it. Hence, their attribution of ‘conception’ as a miracle intended by God, but the act of rape as ‘something else intended by God but not intended by God, or something.’

Dude stepped in it.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 9:23 AM

A life is a life, god creates all life, if it happens as a result of a rape, that child is no less God’s child than any other child.

Which god?

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 9:24 AM

A life is a life, god creates all life, if it happens as a result of a rape, that child is no less God’s child than any other child.

Which god?

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 9:24 AM

Pick your God. If it is ok to take one life, any other life should be clear to be taken at any time as well.

astonerii on October 24, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Pick your God. If it is ok to take one life, any other life should be clear to be taken at any time as well.

astonerii on October 24, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Nothing happens that isn’t god’s will.

Including rape. Correct?

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 9:54 AM

Nothing happens that isn’t god’s will.

Including rape. Correct?

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 9:54 AM

We have free will. Some people go against God’s wishes on what we should do with that free will. This Earthly life is where we prove if we are the few, the proud, those who God will want to have live with him in heaven.
People’s actions are not God’s will, but life is God’s blessing. Thus, taking an innocent life such as a child’s goes against the wishes of God. If one innocent life is not worth protecting, then why is your life worth protecting?

astonerii on October 24, 2012 at 10:06 AM

Some people go against God’s wishes on what we should do with that free will.

That’s not the question.

The question is does god intend for that to happen, or have foreknowledge of it?

If so, then free will is an illusion. Some theology you have there.

This Earthly life is where we prove if we are the few, the proud, those who God will want to have live with him in heaven.

And the evidence for this or any other claims of the supernatural is…what?

People’s actions are not God’s will, but life is God’s blessing.

How about rape? Are you now trying to argue that a woman impregenated by rape has been ‘blessed’ somehow? I’d think you would want to ask the rape victim first before dismissing her life or wishes as a mere chess piece in ‘the plan.’

Of course, if the rape victim is allowed to have a say in it, then that makes it a little more difficult to assert what you’re saying as ‘moral.’

Thus, taking an innocent life such as a child’s goes against the wishes of God. If one innocent life is not worth protecting, then why is your life worth protecting?

You haven’t explained why a woman being raped isn’t god’s will. Everything is god’s will. Nothing comes to pass that isn’t.

Whatever you define your god to be, it/he/she seems not to care about the lives of rape victims, and neither do you.

So lectures on ‘morality’ coming out of the mouths of those who believe such things rings a bit hollow.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 10:18 AM

Some people go against God’s wishes on what we should do with that free will.

That’s not the question.

The question is does god intend for that to happen, or have foreknowledge of it?

If so, then free will is an illusion. Some theology you have there.

Free will is free will retard, you obviously have biases against God! God does not intend any bad things to happen. He created a world and put life in it. Some of that life he gave free will and greater insight. That would be you and me and the rest of humanity. We are free to make choices, and God is not making us take one action or another, that is what FREE WILL IS retard!

This Earthly life is where we prove if we are the few, the proud, those who God will want to have live with him in heaven.

And the evidence for this or any other claims of the supernatural is…what?

Nothing RETARD, it is a faith based religion. Needs no evidence. Just like your godless world needs no evidence of how it came about.

People’s actions are not God’s will, but life is God’s blessing.

How about rape? Are you now trying to argue that a woman impregenated by rape has been ‘blessed’ somehow? I’d think you would want to ask the rape victim first before dismissing her life or wishes as a mere chess piece in ‘the plan.’

Of course, if the rape victim is allowed to have a say in it, then that makes it a little more difficult to assert what you’re saying as ‘moral.’

There is no plan. Again RETARD, God creates life, what we do is FREE WILL. Again, RETARD you take a life and conflate it with an ACTION. The life exists, what do you do with it? If you say it is OK to snuff it out as if it is nothing more than a disease, that says much about your morals, they are evil and not good. The life is there, if one innocent life is not worth protecting, why is yours!?!

Thus, taking an innocent life such as a child’s goes against the wishes of God. If one innocent life is not worth protecting, then why is your life worth protecting?

You haven’t explained why a woman being raped isn’t god’s will. Everything is god’s will. Nothing comes to pass that isn’t.

Whatever you define your god to be, it/he/she seems not to care about the lives of rape victims, and neither do you.

So lectures on ‘morality’ coming out of the mouths of those who believe such things rings a bit hollow.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 10:18 AM

It is not about the rape victim once there is a child involved. The weakest are those who need protecting. Or are you of the mind that people with mental and physical disabilities should be easy targets for abuse? If they cannot protect themselves, then they deserve the fate they get and society should just let them suffer and likely die? Of course you would not say that, it is way too popular to defend them. Well, a child in the womb is even less able to defend themselves, and yet you argue their life should be freely snuffed out with no though or care at all. Who cares in your world, certainly not you, and I would imagine in your heart, you care even less for the crippled and mentally challenged, they are there for you to abuse and take advantage of, even to their deaths.

astonerii on October 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Here’s what sucks: Romney *just cut an ad for this guy* here in Indiana, expect that to be pushed into the battleground states in an effort to drum up the anti-socon crowd and cut Romney’s ‘I’m moderate’ approach to wooing independents. THAT is why this qualifies as ‘unforced error.’

BritCarGuy on October 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM

I’m pro-life, but if you’re going to take the position that there should be no exceptions for rape or incest PLEASE learn how to articulate that without putting your foot in your mouth.

I have a bad feeling we’re going to p!ss away this seat, too, due to yet another bad candidate. Just because someone runs against the “establishment” and/or gets the tea party nod doesn’t mean they’d make a great general election candidate, as we saw numerous times in ’10 and, now, in ’12.

changer1701 on October 24, 2012 at 10:33 AM

Free will is free will retard, you obviously have biases against God!

Calling somebody a ‘retard’ doesn’t add any weight to your argument, which is severely lacking.

Just so you know.

He created a world and put life in it.

Prove it.

Nothing RETARD, it is a faith based religion. Needs no evidence.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Just like your godless world needs no evidence of how it came about.

We know how the Earth was formed. There are mountains of evidence for it. Start here, and continue your research until you get it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Earth

That’s the difference between the supernatural claims and verifiable facts. One can be tested and verified with evidence, the other can’t be.

The life is there, if one innocent life is not worth protecting, why is yours!?!

Isn’t the rape victim’s life worth considering? What if she dies bringing this child to term? Kind of makes it hard for you to claim you value ‘life’ when you so easily dismiss the victim’s life and wishes as irrelevant. But do continue, and use the word ‘retard’ more.

It’s enhancing the irony.

It is not about the rape victim once there is a child involved.

Ask the rape victim about that.

You’ve just made my point for me. Congratulations.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 10:57 AM

I have said for over 3 years that this election would come down to social issues, much as the greedy libertines would like to think it’s the economy, stupid. We are screaming towards the 40th anniversary of the evil legalization of child murder in this country. We as a people have allowed the murder of millions and millions of INNOCENT human beings. 40 years and we have a choice to make. Life or death, blessing or cursing. Try as you will to believe abortion doesn’t matter in this election, it does. It is the single most important issue. And it is because it is to God, that would be the ONE TRUE God for Good Lt. And no, I won’t argue it. Some things just are, and one day even you will have to admit it, because EVERY knee shall bend.

Choose life, so that you and your seed may live.

pannw on October 24, 2012 at 11:28 AM

Isn’t the rape victim’s life worth considering? What if she dies bringing this child to term? Kind of makes it hard for you to claim you value ‘life’ when you so easily dismiss the victim’s life and wishes as irrelevant. But do continue, and use the word ‘retard’ more.

It’s enhancing the irony.

It is not about the rape victim once there is a child involved.

Ask the rape victim about that.

You’ve just made my point for me. Congratulations.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 10:57 AM

The moral looks at the action, MORON (does not add anything to the debate, but points out reality), not the feelings. Like liberals everywhere, libertardarians (again, not adding to the debate, but just making a description)like yourself imagine that people’s feelings are important only when it allows your degrading of human life activities to continue. If the life of the mother is at risk, that can mitigate things, particularly when both would not survive. But how many mothers die in child birth? Out of over 4 million births per year in the USA about 840 women die giving birth.

As for your ask the rape victim about that, how about you ask a child who a rape victim did not abort how they feel about not existing. The rape victim can make a choice, allow the life to live, or snuff it out. One is morally good, one is evil. You have made the point yourself. We are of free will to make choices, those choices define who we are are. Are we murderers or are we defenders of life?

You are a murderer, as you do nothing to prevent murder, all for the feelings of a victim.

astonerii on October 24, 2012 at 11:47 AM

the ONE TRUE God for Good Lt. And no, I won’t argue it.

Which is the “One True God?”

Humor me with details.

You’re making grand pronouncements. Please provide something tangible to back it up.

You are a murderer, as you do nothing to prevent murder, all for the feelings of a victim.

astonerii on October 24, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Coming from the person who thinks rape victims don’t matter on questions such as these gives you the irony award of the day.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Coming from the person who thinks rape victims don’t matter on questions such as these gives you the irony award of the day.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Coming from someone who thinks feelings trump life… Irony?

I do not have to judge Bad Lt, the worst I would guess, I never seen anyone be an Lt as long as you. Murder is murder. Killing of INNOCENT life is killing of INNOCENT LIFE. No judgement required.

astonerii on October 24, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Nothing happens that isn’t god’s will.

Including rape. Correct?

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 9:54 AM

Wow. I haven’t heard these “gotcha” arguments since high school philosophy, because normally you have to be that clueless to not understand the concept of free will and a loving God.

LT, do a little Googling on Omniscience and Omnipotence and come on back. Especially review the concepts of God’s allowance of free will. After you’ve done some basic research perhaps we can have an intelligent discussion.

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Out of over 4 million births per year in the USA about 840 women die giving birth.

Tell the rape victim you’re making that gamble for her without her consent.

I’m sure she’ll appreciate your moral guidance.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Oh, and while you’re at it, maybe you can learn some of the other famous gotchas, like “Can God create a boulder so big He can’t lift it????!!!??!!ELEVENTY!!??”

Heh.

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 1:03 PM

LT, do a little Googling on Omniscience and Omnipotence and come on back. Especially review the concepts of God’s allowance of free will. After you’ve done some basic research perhaps we can have an intelligent discussion.

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 12:59 PM

Which god?

Humanity has created more than one, you know.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:03 PM

Tell the rape victim you’re making that gamble for her without her consent.

I’m sure she’ll appreciate your moral guidance.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:02 PM

Damned near 100% of aborted babies die. How about their choice?

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 1:04 PM

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 12:49 PM

http://www.shroud.com/heraseng.pdf

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

There you go…tangible things given by THE ONE TRUE GOD. The One who shed His precious type AB blood for you, even knowing you would reject His sacrifice. It is never too late, though, to start working in the vineyard and receive the full reward. ;) Well, until it is too late.

Consider yourself humored. Do with it what you will.

pannw on October 24, 2012 at 1:04 PM

Oh, and while you’re at it, maybe you can learn some of the other famous gotchas, like “Can God create a boulder so big He can’t lift it????!!!??!!ELEVENTY!!??”

Heh.

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 1:03 PM

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

-Epicurus

Go!

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:05 PM

Which god?

Humanity has created more than one, you know.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:03 PM

Whichever one you were dissing, LT. You’re the one saying God likes rape, not us (and not Mourdock). Seriously, using the same stupid “which god” comment doesn’t make your argument any less sophomoric.

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 1:06 PM

Go!

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:05 PM

As Bugs Bunny would say, what a maroon! Evil is the price of free will. God judges that free will is more important than the absence of evil. It’s not dissimilar to the concept of capitalism vs. socialism, in which capitalism provides for success but allows failure while socialism strives for neither.

But seriously, LT, do any little bit of research for yourself, other than quoting Epicurus. Seriously, are you hanging your hat on Epicureanism?

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 1:09 PM

Damned near 100% of aborted babies die. How about their choice?

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 1:04 PM

I’m more concerned with the rape victim who had no choice in the matter.

A fertilized egg is less of a concern than the existing, fully-developed and living person whose life was just violated in the most heinous way. The person whose life you seem to care nothing for at all.

Your fellow traveler up in the thread was even going as far as to gamble her life on the small chance she could die bringing a child to term in the name of, um, ‘defending life.’ Except for the rape victim’s life. Her life is apparently expendable, inconsequential or irrelevant.

That’s not morality, and our laws don’t reflect that for a reason.

See if you can figure out why.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:11 PM

A fertilized egg is less of a concern than the existing, fully-developed and living person whose life was just violated in the most heinous way. The person whose life you seem to care nothing for at all.

You have no idea what I care for or not. As is typical in the Leftist, because I disagree I must be excoriated. Silly Lib.

I simply point out that YOU are demanding the death of the baby without concern for it (and then projecting that callous disregard on me). At what point does your concern for the child outweigh the concern for the mother? The day after? A month after? Three months after? Six months? Nine months? Just before birth? Just after?

Please, let us know.

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 1:16 PM

Evil is the price of free will.

So, logically by this, if we didn’t have free will we’d be good?

LOL

Seriously, are you hanging your hat on Epicureanism?

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 1:09 PM

You did nothing to refute his challenge other than to scoff at it.

So yes, I’ll take that challenge that was formed even before your holy books were written to the same kinds of people making ridiculous claims about “the true” supernatural sky beings in ancient times as well.

God judges that free will is more important than the absence of evil.

And then God goes on to commit and to order heinous acts of evil such as infanticide, human sacrifice, genocide, murder, etc.

So that’s evidently not true even from a cursory reading of the Bible.

It’s not dissimilar to the concept of capitalism vs. socialism, in which capitalism provides for success but allows failure while socialism strives for neither.

It’s nothing of the sort. Capitalism and socialism are economic systems.

We know they actually exist and can prove it. And don’t attribute to them supernatural powers of omnipotence or omnipresence.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:17 PM

At what point does your concern for the child outweigh the concern for the mother?

It doesn’t in the instance of rape.

Trivia question: Why don’t we treat rape and unwanted pregnancies the same way legally?

Why is one a crime and other isn’t?

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:19 PM

Whichever one you were dissing, LT. You’re the one saying God likes rape, not us (and not Mourdock). Seriously, using the same stupid “which god” comment doesn’t make your argument any less sophomoric.

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 1:06 PM

Except I didn’t say “God likes rape” anywhere.

I said that it must be god’s will that it happen (whatever that is, which some define as ‘everything’).

This isn’t my moral circle to square. It’s yours. Try arguing against points that were actually made rather than imaginary ones.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:22 PM

At what point does your concern for the child outweigh the concern for the mother?

It doesn’t in the instance of rape.

Trivia question: Why don’t we treat rape and unwanted pregnancies the same way legally?

Why is one a crime and other isn’t?

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:19 PM

Wow, your arguments are actually LESS intelligent than I would have imagined. I guess I deal with a better class of Leftist.

Anyway, you have an intellectual defect. To say you don’t care about the child means you are missing a fundamental piece of ethical machinery; you are pro-abortion, not pro-choice. Even the most pro-choice person I know realizes that if a child is near term, then the rape argument no longer applies. If you believe in partial-birth abortions, no matter what your excuse, then you are an unfortunately damaged individual and I suggest you seek professional help. Clearly something is wrong with you.

As to rape being a crime, it’s because there was a criminal action – the rape – and a perpetrator – the rapist. The conception is not a crime, and the baby is not a criminal. But if you condone partial-birth abortion, as is the only conclusion from your comment, then you won’t understand this point either.

I’m done with this discussion. You’re not worth the time.

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 1:29 PM

To say you don’t care about the child means you are missing a fundamental piece of ethical machinery; you are pro-abortion, not pro-choice

I am pro-choice.

You are not the one who was raped. Therefore, you get to decide nothing for that person. Ever. And that’s a good thing.

The conception is not a crime, and the baby is not a criminal.

Unfortunately, the rape victim did not consent to the act, so the consequences of that act (which you’d attribute to carelessness if it were just a consensual unwanted pregnancy and have that party deal with the ‘consequences of their actions’) have a real impact on the life of the victim. That’s an impact they have to right to make a decision about without interference from you or anybody else.

I’m done with this discussion. You’re not worth the time.

AJsDaddie on October 24, 2012 at 1:29 PM

You’ve really said nothing of value, so it’s no loss other than to illustrate how extreme and morally bankrupt your position actually is – all while wrapping yourself in the mantle of moral superiority. Good luck out there.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:40 PM

Tell the rape victim you’re making that gamble for her without her consent.

I’m sure she’ll appreciate your moral guidance.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 1:02 PM

If she is willing to go to prison for murder, unless there is a verifiable life of the mother risk for going full term, no problem. Just like I do not give her the power to kill her rapist, I do not grant her the power to kill another life.

I said not one thing about life of the mother exemption, but I will say it has to be something that is verifiable, and if a doctor lies is subject to prison, I would be willing to argue is valid.

But, for saving the mother nothing other than a few bad feelings, allowing her to murder an INNOCENT LIFE is not moral.

Good Lt argues that people should be able to kill other people if it makes them FEEL BETTER. That is your entire argument GOOD Lt.

astonerii on October 24, 2012 at 2:13 PM

If she is willing to go to prison for murder, unless there is a verifiable life of the mother risk for going full term, no problem

There’s a reason people don’t go to prison for terminating pregnancies, let alone for rape victims terminating pregnancies.

I’d advise you to just stop commenting, as you are beclowning your side of the argument. I’m sure you won’t take the advice.

Just like I do not give her the power to kill her rapist, I do not grant her the power to kill another life.

Neither are your decision to make.

But, for saving the mother nothing other than a few bad feelings, allowing her to murder an INNOCENT LIFE is not moral.

And again, that’s not your decision to make for a reason.

Good Lt argues that people should be able to kill other people if it makes them FEEL BETTER. That is your entire argument GOOD Lt.

Nowhere was that argued. I’m noticing a tendency among the extremists on your side to argue against imaginary arguments that are not being put forward.

In addition, even a cursory reading of the Bible shows that your own “one true god” takes his own “don’t murder” rule – that’s the same as it was yesterday, today and tomorrow – pretty lightly, so why should anybody else look there as a moral guidepost on a complicated human issue such as this?

We’re lucky we don’t live by those same ‘moral guidelines’ in ancient books in this day and age. Much to your chagrin, I’d imagine.

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 2:49 PM

Good Lt on October 24, 2012 at 2:49 PM

Does not matter if it is not my decision to make GOODEVIL Lt. I can say what is right and what is wrong, and in time my views may become law. I sure hope so.

Good Lt is a pro abortion life hating lower life form of immeasurable hatred it seems. He thinks the FEELINGS of one person TRUMPS the LIFE of another person. He never tries to defend this position. His only argument is that it is out of my hands. Big deal Good Lt, who cares if it is in my hands or not, I still get to weigh in on whether it is morally good or evil! Got it lowlife?

astonerii on October 24, 2012 at 2:53 PM