North Carolina’s bigots?
posted at 9:21 am on May 11, 2012 by Libby Sternberg
Did you know—two-thirds of blacks who voted in North Carolina this week are bigots. Yes—mean, hateful bigots.
That’s because they voted for the ban on gay marriage in that state, and many liberals who support gay marriage see it as a love/hate issue. If you don’t love gay marriage, you’re hateful.
Think I’m crazy? Google North Carolina bigots and see what you get—everything from the usual Daily Kos rants to the more mainstream LA Times op/ed titled “Obama, gay marriage, and a win for bigotry in NC.”
If you want a more thoughtful view, however, take a look at this blog post by a gay Christian in North Carolina:
So as a lifelong North Carolinian who is also one of the most outspoken gay Christians on the internet, I have something to say about this.
First of all, it shouldn’t be any surprise that I opposed the amendment. I think same-sex couples should have the same legal rights as other couples, and even if I didn’t, many experts have argued that the wording of this amendment is dangerously vague, not only banning same-sex marriage and civil unions, but also affecting heterosexual couples, children’s health insurance, domestic violence victims, and other important issues—all to ban something that was already banned to begin with.
Maybe you agree with me; maybe you disagree. But that’s not the point I want to make.
After last night’s vote, I heard a disturbingly large number of my friends, national commentators, and others suggesting that this vote just proves that North Carolinians (or at least a giant percentage of us) are bigoted, homophobic, backwards people who are so filled with hate that we oppose equality for certain groups just because we can.
And see, that’s just not the case. Yes, I voted against the amendment, as did many of my friends and hundreds of thousands of other NC residents. But I also know people who voted for it, and I know that they are not simply bigoted, homophobic, backwards people. It’s way more complicated than that.
It’s a beautiful post, and I urge you to read it in its entirety. Mr. Lee is to be congratulated for not being angry—either at the North Carolinians who voted against his point of view or those who labeled those voters bigots.
For the latter group, I find it more difficult to be as charitable. The casual use of the slanderous term “bigot” to describe opponents of gay marriage has become almost as commonplace as the use of “racist” to describe opponents of the president. When will the left learn that this is not only wrong but counterproductive? Once you call your opponents haters, you shut down debate. Why should anyone bother trying to discuss an issue with people who dismiss them as evil?
As for my own views on the gay marriage debate, I know I’m opening myself up for a lot of criticism on a blog like this one, but put me in Dick Cheney’s camp—I do not oppose it (there was a time when I did, from what I’d call an uber-feminist perspective that viewed marriage as primarily a protection of women and the children they would bear).
I don’t believe marriage is a civil right, however, for anyone. If the government got out of the marriage business tomorrow, I’m not sure you’d be hearing a hue and cry for it to be reinstated as a “civil right,” for example. The courts that have ruled it as such open the door to lots of mischief in my mind. After all, if it’s a civil right for two men to marry, why is it not a “civil right” for Kody Brown to legalize his union to four—will it soon be five?—wives? No, marriage is defined by society, depending on society’s needs. And those who are reluctant to change its definition today are not bigots or homophobes, even if I personally don’t agree with them anymore.
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Libby Sternberg is a novelist.
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He is a gay Christian? That’s like saying your a ‘Christian bank robber’ or a ‘Christian prostitute.’
NeverLiberal on May 11, 2012 at 9:39 AM
Wow! G-d is posting on Hot Air!
But, Lord, why are you using a pseudonym?
Oh, that isn’t You, G-d? Then why is that person judging who is and is not a Christian?
MunDane68 on May 11, 2012 at 10:42 AM
As a North Carolinian, it never ceases to amaze me the tolerance the leftist media shows for all my fellow North Carolinians who are labeled as “bigots”… including the black “bigots” whom the left so champions.
Turtle317 on May 11, 2012 at 10:49 AM
Hardly a surprise. I knew that most blacks do not support gay marriage and that most blacks are democrats.
With all the post Prop 8 harassment, none of them had the nerve to go into South Central and confront the black churches. No, they just harassed Mormon temples and elderly women at their jobs.
Blake on May 11, 2012 at 11:04 AM
Yes, if you want to speak out against/vote against gays, do it from a black church or a mosque and you’ll be untouchable.
Bill Brasky on May 11, 2012 at 11:22 AM
Well, now you are just being facetious, aren’t you?!
I think what NeverLiberal was trying to say, was that how can someone call themselves Christian when they purposely live the kind of lifestyle that God says is an abomination? When you live the Christian life you are supposed to not actively pursue the things that God hates. And not WANT to pursue them. That will give you a little indication of how your walk with Christ is going.
Not saying that “Mr. Lee” doesn’t believe in God. But he should, as all of us should, examine how his relationship is with Him, and do some serious soul-searching.
Sterling Holobyte on May 11, 2012 at 12:02 PM
I see, so NeverLiberal is presumptive, MunDane68 is facetious, and you’re the one with the true word. Give me a break.
God doesn’t have to like us to love us. And neither YOU nor anybody else knows his true will.
WeekendAtBernankes on May 11, 2012 at 12:31 PM
Now that Our Dear Leader is in the SSM camp, the MSM feels secure in calling anyone who disagees, bigots.
Like I needed another reason to loathe the LA Times?
Got sand? Pound it.
ConservativeLA on May 11, 2012 at 1:23 PM
i’m glad to see this blog post, as a north carolinian who voted for the amedment. i kept saying over and over again on twitter, fb, and tumblr that i wasn’t a hater or a bigot. and, the people i know who voted for it (mostly just people at church) are nice people. i’m tired of people who have a different definition of marriage being labeled as haters, just because we disagree.
Sachiko on May 11, 2012 at 1:58 PM
Libby,
I don’t know why you’d feel your opinion wouldn’t be accepted here. We aren’t democrats. We (for the most part) don’t call people names simply for disagreeing.
I would like to know if anyone has interviewed the black democrats who are being called hateful bigots for voting for the amendment. It would be interesting to know how they feel about that.
Night Owl on May 11, 2012 at 3:27 PM
Night Owl,
Excellent points. The discussion has been good.
As to the blacks who voted for the amendmennt… I was mentioning this to a FB friend who pointed out some small percentage overall voted. Thought that was funny — so I guess only the tiny “bigoted” portion of that community voted? I’m assuming that’s what he was arguing.
Libby Sternberg on May 11, 2012 at 3:39 PM
WeekendAtBernankes
Depends. If you call yourself a Christian, we are instructed in various places to live in accord with God’s will. That is outlined in the Bible. That’s the mistake MunDane and every other ‘you can’t judge’ person makes. When we speak as NeverLiberal did, we are citing GOD’S judgment on the issue, not our own. We are allowed to discern, though. ‘By their fruits you shall know them.’ That’s what NeverLiberal seems to be doing.
avgjo on May 11, 2012 at 4:33 PM
No, you are not ‘citing’ G-d’s judgement, you are acting as Judge. Furthermore, we are all short of perfect, there is nothing that any of us does that is less of a failure, and Christianity is built on that idea.
Furthermore, you are responsible for YOUR life. You are supposed to live YOUR life according to the precepts of The Bible. Log = splinter.
Your responsibility to judge others is extremely limited. Is Mr. Lee a member of your congregation? Is in your circle of friends? Is he someone you have lead to Christ? If the answer is not “yes” to any of those, then the admonition becomes just another version of Sister Betty Better-Than-You.
Clean up your own act before presuming to helping G-d with His.
MunDane68 on May 11, 2012 at 6:52 PM
And yeah, I am guilty of exactly what I was talking about. I beg your forgiveness…
MunDane68 on May 11, 2012 at 6:54 PM
There are a lot of gay people who think this is a rights issue; even though in states gay marriage has been implemented few people have taken advantage. While everyone want to treat this as a states rights issue, ultimately I don’t think the defense of marriage act will pass constitutional muster. States will be forced to recognize gay marriage from other states, and after that the federal government.
When it comes to the national gay rights organizations this is all about money, and it all comes in at the federal level. Besides pension and health care benefits from private employers and insurance, the spousal benefits from social security and especially social security disability will be staggering. The marriage deductions and credits in the tax code that will become available to same sex married couples will in effect result in a huge transfer of wealth to gay couples from everyone else.
Obama in his dreams imagines hundreds of thousands of gay servicemen and women suddenly becoming married with full dependent benefits. We will see an avalanche of lawsuits, and all of society will end up paying.
The problem is that most of our economic institutions both public and private are under enormous demographic stress. Anything that liberals do must be examined as to how much it will contribute to economic collapse. Unfortunately the conservative watchdogs have not been doing the math.
Most people, Christian and otherwise, are fine with gays living however they wish, it’s that nagging feeling that someone is reaching for their wallets that drives this issue.
halfbaked on May 11, 2012 at 7:47 PM
Mundane
really? So if I refer to a behavior that God said is wrong as wrong, I made that judgement? Hmm. Funny. I thought the issue was decided way before I ever came into existence.
There are many scriptures admonishing those who judge, especially in a hypocritical way.
But there are also many that support the idea of making at least some judgment.
(Based on the way you write ‘God’, I don’t know if you’re a practicing Christian or Jew. The reason I mention this is that I don’t know if some of these next scriptures are relevant to you. If they are not, I apologize in advance.)
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.
John 7:24
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
Matthew 7:5
(emphasis obviously mine)
The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
1 Corinthians 2:15
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. For each will have to bear his own load…
Galatians 6:1-6
You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor.
Leviticus 19:15
avgjo on May 11, 2012 at 8:50 PM
The fact that quote Matthew 7:5 makes me wonder if you really read my whole post, or just stopped somewhere after a few lines, or are just wanting to be argumentative. Consider the entirety of the Matthew 7 and what it says.
I will assume good intentions, so let me ask you something, do you think that sin of homosexuality is worse than the sin of covetousness? Is homosexuality worse than the sin of lying? Is the sin of homosexuality worse than the sin of trying to stir up trouble among the saved? (See Proverbs 6 for the record of the only seven things G-d is said to hate in the Bible.)
Jesus was very clear that marriage was between a man and woman, see teachings on divorce as evidence, but homosexuality is no more a threat to marriage than no-fault divorce, hook ups and one night stands. Those that mock the institution of marriage, will mock it regardless.
I worry more about my own transgressions against G-d than I do about a person in some other state trying to do the same, and failing to meet divine standards just as I do. We all will be judged one day, and not by our works, for by them we all fail to meet His standards but by our faith, in seeking His forgiveness, freely given.
MunDane68 on May 11, 2012 at 10:57 PM
MunDane
I did read your entire post, three times.
The central theme of your post seems to be that you should primarily concern yourself with your own behavior. No argument there.
What bothers me goes back to your comment at NeverLiberal’s comment. NL made a valid point. Jesus said ‘by their fruits ye shall know them.’ I tell you, if someone claimed to be a Christian fornicator or adulterer or liar, I’d have the same problem NL described with his/her comment. While we should be predominantly be concerned with our own behavior, the Scriptures I cited are evidence that there is certainly a place for judging behavior of others. Further, we use God’s word to base those judgments upon. That’s what I meant by ‘citing’ His judgment.
I firmly believe one reason we have arrived at the moral point we have is because so many Christians are too timid to call out bad behavior. I’ll assume good intentions for you as well, but I have encountered many people who use the ‘we can’t judge’ stuff as cover for doing the hard work of pointing out sin.
avgjo on May 12, 2012 at 12:14 AM
Libby, it isn’t just the Left. Lots of so-called “libertarian” anti-theists are saying the exact same thing. They’re also completely comfortable playing the “Christians are just like the Taliban” card.
SDN on May 12, 2012 at 8:14 AM
Avgjo,
You give a thoughtful response. What I have a big problem with, is that some will look at homosexuality and confuse the idea that sin has degrees. That this shortcoming or that trespass is somehow “worse” than another.
It is most emphatically not.
And the truth is, we don’t know Mr. Lee’s fruits. The Bible is very clear that no one failure to be prefect is worse than another. We don’t know what he is like. And to say that just because he is gay, he can’t be Christian was the part I was finding fault with.
I remember listening to some radio personality (Jon Kobylt) complain that some serial killer’s jailhouse conversion before his execution was the reason he could never be a Christian, because how could G-d forgive something like that.
I thought on that a while and came to the conclusion it was G-d knew his heart at the time of conversion. His forgiveness can cover all sins. So, yes, there are such things as Gay Christians and the rest. Their forgiveness and/or state of faith is not up to me. But their failings are no worse than the ones who fail to follow laws of the government that do not impact faith, like speed limits or those that curse at people who are simply disagreeing with or are irritating toward them. (NOT you avgjo, just using an example I have seen and experienced.)
MunDane68 on May 12, 2012 at 1:31 PM