Green Room

Surprise! Poll with ties to SEIU and Daily Kos says… Ron Paul getting close to leaders in Iowa

posted at 9:20 pm on December 13, 2011 by

Before you put too much stock in the most recent PPP poll, you may want to review this April 2011 Hill article:

A top union and a top liberal blog announced Tuesday that they’ll team up to sponsor polling through the 2012 elections. Daily Kos and the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) said they will join forces to conduct issue and campaign polling in key states and races over the next two years

…The SEIU/Daily Kos poll will use Public Policy Polling (PPP), a Democratic firm that uses automated polling rather than live, over-the-phone survey methods. Moulitsas contracted with PPP in June of 2010 after severing ties with Research 2000, which faced allegations of producing faulty poll results.

So when you read news like this, take it with a grain of salt.

Oh my: Ron Paul within one point of Gingrich in Iowa? … “There has been some major movement in the Republican Presidential race in Iowa over the last week, with what was a 9 point lead for Newt Gingrich now all the way down to a single point. Gingrich is at 22% to 21% for Paul with Mitt Romney at 16%, Michele Bachmann at 11%, Rick Perry at 9%, Rick Santorum at 8%, Jon Huntsman at 5%, and Gary Johnson at 1%.”

Really? Methinks that the PPP poll is patently bogus. The Intrade prediction market, probably the best indicator of reality, has Gingrich trading at a 47% chance of winning Iowa versus 29% for Paul.

And let’s not forget who Ron Paul really is:

• A man who claims that bloodthirsty Islamist terrorists are morally equivalent to Americans?

• A man who vocally encourages the despicable 9/11 Truther movement?

• A man who embraces virulent anti-semites and is inspired by those who despise Jews?

• A man whose foreign policy prescriptions are so “far left” that they are outright dangerous?

• A man whose strongest supporters vilify Ronald Reagan, William F. Buckley, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Ed Meese, Sarah Palin, etc.?

• A man who despises Israel, a beacon of freedom in an otherwise barbaric Middle East?

• A man so power-hungry that he refuses to rule out a third-party run, which would very likely help reelect Barack Obama?

Jeffrey Lord offers the quintessential summary of Ron Paul for conservatives:

The Ron Paul campaign is really about re-educating America to what can only be called Neoliberalism. Which, based on the evidence and writings of its supporters, appears to be a thin gruel of free markets and non-interventionism seasoned heavily with anti-Semitism, morally obtuse Neo-Confederates, and an outspoken contempt for both conservatism and conservative leaders past and present.

I don’t care how well-organized the Paulbots are in Iowa. I put as much stock in PPP polling as I do in lunar cheese. No thinking Republican would ever cast a vote for a man who advocates a George McGovern foreign policy. Ever.

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• A man who despises Israel, a beacon of freedom in an otherwise barbaric Middle East?

He wants to end ALL foreign aid. His position would be pro-Israel. Currently, we give more money to countries that hate Israel and are self declared enemies of Israel than we do Israel herself.

nazo311 on December 13, 2011 at 9:57 PM

Click the links and read the source material.

Paul is a troubling, troubling man.

directorblue on December 13, 2011 at 9:59 PM

Your sources are very thin on sources themselves, except when they use the words of vocal extremists, a la the MSM and the Tea Party, to paint the man himself and all of his supporters as villains. I’ve been around a lot of his supporters both in person and on the web, and I have yet to meet an anti-Semite. I would guess that most of his supporters are like the ones I’ve met.

j2kp0t on December 13, 2011 at 10:26 PM

He wants to end ALL foreign aid. His position would be pro-Israel. Currently, we give more money to countries that hate Israel and are self declared enemies of Israel than we do Israel herself.

nazo311 on December 13, 2011 at 9:57 PM

So in other words, Ron Paul is Israel’s best friend?

thebrokenrattle on December 13, 2011 at 10:31 PM

j2kp0t on December 13, 2011 at 10:26 PM

Then you’re new to the Borg collective, your being disingenuous or you’re blind, willfully or otherwise.

Many Paulbot anti-semites were banned from this very site years ago.

catmman on December 13, 2011 at 10:36 PM

Your sources are very thin on sources themselves, except when they use the words of vocal extremists, a la the MSM and the Tea Party, to paint the man himself and all of his supporters as villains. I’ve been around a lot of his supporters both in person and on the web, and I have yet to meet an anti-Semite. I would guess that most of his supporters are like the ones I’ve met.

j2kp0t on December 13, 2011 at 10:26 PM

This old chestnut…

Paulbots are famous for frothing to “name your sources, let’s see some links”

Provide them, then those sources are weak

When the source aren’t really weak, then claim the material is simply from some sort of extremist of one stripe or another.

Then claim, anecdotally, (mindful that actual sources were just posted supporting the statements from the author) that you’ve never met anyone like those just sited in source material…

When all else fails, simply ignore the source and spout the Herr Doktor talking points – or blame the Jooooos.

catmman on December 13, 2011 at 10:48 PM

Here are my comments from the last similar article. They are eve more apropriate here. (And a cut and paste saves a lot of re-typing.) Mark Twain said that there are three types of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. I believe that polls would be covered under Statistics. Let the candidates have at it, state their cases and positions, let the people go to the voting booths, and publish the result. All this commentary and angst on polls can have a detrimental effect.

Elric on December 13, 2011 at 10:59 PM

This article is a joke. DIRECTORBLUE is a rino. Ron Paul is the most consistent conservative in the race. The author supports big government and is scared Paul is doing well. I expect A LOT more garbage thrown at Paul, by big government loving hypocrites, as he continues to move up.

rndmusrnm on December 13, 2011 at 11:04 PM

rndmusrnm on December 13, 2011 at 11:04 PM

just…lol

catmman on December 13, 2011 at 11:12 PM

Elric on December 13, 2011 at 10:59 PM

Did Mark Twain have anything to say about statistics suddenly becoming Gospel when they fit one’s agenda?

MelonCollie on December 13, 2011 at 11:32 PM

So what is this article offering other than foaming polemic against Ron Paul? What is the point? Not everyone thinks our global policy should be determined by what is best for Israel. They don’t do that for us. We can still be close… we criticize other allies without all the BS. I don’t like Ron Paul’s foreign policy but he is an honest straight shooter and sticks to his principles. He might not deserve a vote but I certainly think he deserves more respect than this diatribe.

lexhamfox on December 13, 2011 at 11:57 PM

I don’t consider myself a politically intellectual giant by any means, but it seems to me that posts like this, the sources it uses (and the sources they use), as well as the responses from people who don’t like Paul frequently amount to name calling and poisoning the well. The only well-thought out argument I’ve heard against Paul regards his foreign policy; it’s an argument I can understand, having once espoused it myself. The rest is all guilt by association, inference, and unsupported opinion… so far.

j2kp0t on December 14, 2011 at 12:29 AM

I have no idea how accurate any of the polls lately are, nor would I be surprised to discover that Paul is farther away from first than 1 point. My problem with this didactic post is indeed with the sources. I began with the news real blog, which overs no sources for its contention that Paul is an anti-Semite, linking only to actions of some of his supporters. I next clicked on Michelle Malkin, with whom I frequently agree, and discovered that she’s putting words in his mouth. I don’t mind her being upset that he didn’t specifically repudiate the truthers, but that’s taking it too far, as is this poster’s contention that her interpretation, even if correct, amounts to “encouragement.” But hey, apparently, I’m a Paulbot, and by extension, a Borg, and blind and delusional, and quite possibly an anti-semite myself. I voted Chuck Baldwin in the last election; you’ll be happy to know that my vote didn’t help Obama any.

j2kp0t on December 14, 2011 at 12:55 AM

Hey! SEIU, huh? I seem to recall that one of the candidates expressed support and admiration for Andy Stern, leader of the SEIU…

“..Andy Stern, the head of the Service Employees International Union, is the union leader who probably best understands the challenge of the world market and the need to make American union members productive in the face of world competition. Sadly, he is a distinct minority among union leaders.”
~Newt Gingrich

cavalier973 on December 14, 2011 at 12:56 AM

Ron Paul has Lew Rockwell in his corner. That alone disqualifies Doctor Paul from getting my vote.

gryphon202 on December 14, 2011 at 3:41 AM

How’s the view from the cheap seats?

JohnGalt23 on December 14, 2011 at 8:17 AM

I think his response to the flotilla raid was very telling with how out of touch with reality he is. http://hotair.com/archives/2010/06/03/video-ron-paul-denounces-israels-flotilla-raid-of-course/

Imrahil on December 14, 2011 at 9:27 AM

I suggest we use the label Ron “9/11 Was America’s Fault” Paul from here on out.

directorblue on December 14, 2011 at 10:44 AM

Currently, we give more money to countries that hate Israel and are self declared enemies of Israel than we do Israel herself.

nazo311 on December 13, 2011 at 9:57 PM

That statement is a bald-faced lie.

Thanks for playing tho.

MTLassen on December 14, 2011 at 11:22 AM

I would vote for huntsman before paul! That is saying something because I detest both.
L

letget on December 14, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Way to go, Paulnuts. You now share one more thing in common with KOS than you did before.

I would vote for huntsman before paul! That is saying something because I detest both.

I would, too, but that’s because he’s much farther to the right, in a fiscal sense, than the leftstream media seems to be aware of. They talk him up him because he supports progressive social issues, but I’d bet dollars to donuts that if he were somehow nominated, the mainstream left would tell gays and global warming activists to go fornicate themselves long before they’d ever vote for a moderate Reupblican who openly supports the Paul Ryan plan.

mintycrys on December 14, 2011 at 12:14 PM

FNC suddenly discovering this story this morning and giving it prominent air time…

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on December 14, 2011 at 12:45 PM

“We don’t like Ron Paul, he is an anti-semite”. Funny to hear you guys saying that, but on the domestic side (the side that counts) the rest of what you call the GOP Primary is actually a “lets be more Ron Paul than Ron Paul” contest.

stacybernardslay on December 14, 2011 at 12:58 PM

“We don’t like Ron Paul, he is an anti-semite”. Funny to hear you guys saying that, but on the domestic side (the side that counts) the rest of what you call the GOP Primary is actually a “lets be more Ron Paul than Ron Paul” contest.

stacybernardslay on December 14, 2011 at 12:58 PM

That’s because unlike Ron Paul, some of us actually do more than pay lip service to following the constitution.

gryphon202 on December 14, 2011 at 1:13 PM

I actually think Ron Paul’s foreign policy makes sense after watching the video of the troops and CIA talking about their experiences. It opened my eyes.

youtube ‘you like ron paul, except on foreign policy’

I agree with him that we should not do nation building and give taxpayer money to corrupt crony dictators like musharraf, karzai and other local warlords and drugdealers.

Just get a clear mission via congress, take out the enemies and get the troops home. Nation building should be done at home.

ProtectDefend on December 14, 2011 at 1:41 PM

Funny to hear you guys saying that, but on the domestic side (the side that counts) the rest of ….

Huh? The “side that counts” about a President is the domestic side?

The only big thing that counts for the next President on the domestic side is whether or not he or she will veto legislation coming out of a new Republican Congress that tries to overturn the Democrat wrecking machine that is now in place (Obamacare and the runaway EPA and the massive 1/1/2013 tax increase being three of the more obvious parts of the wrecking machine already in place).

Obama will veto such legislation, of course. None of the Republican candidates will, if they become President.

The President’s greatest power is in making our foreign policy. Paul will be a disaster at that, even worse than George McGovern would have been.

fadetogray on December 14, 2011 at 2:33 PM

I agree with him that we should not do nation building and give taxpayer money to corrupt crony dictators like musharraf, karzai and other local warlords and drugdealers.

Being against nation building (as I am) is one thing. Being against the use of America power because ‘American meddling’ is the problem around the world is something entirely different, and recklessly dangerous.

fadetogray on December 14, 2011 at 2:38 PM

I disagree with all of the points contained in this article, however I will restrain myself to debunking just a couple.

1. The best anti-Paul quote you can come up with is one that says Ron Paul believes in free markets and thus he is bad. Seriously? That’s all you got?

2. Ron Paul does not have outspoken contempt for conservative leaders. He is solidly within the Old Right tradition, and has complimented such figures as Taft and (Howard) Buffett. He complimented Reagan on many things, while disagreeing on others. But the main point here is that when he disagrees with any conservative, he does so from the right – that is, from the small government side.

3. Crying racist against someone who exudes honesty and tolerance will get you nowhere.

4. This article is just an exercise in using -er buzzwords like truther without actually fully describing Ron Paul’s views toward subject. For example, many of Ron Paul’s idols like Mises and Rothbard are Jewish. He is no anti-semite. He also never brings up the subject of 9/11, but concedes, when asked, that it’s possible the individuals in the government have more knowledge than the public. That skepticism of government has always been considered conservative.

NewLiberty on December 14, 2011 at 3:34 PM

yup, i went down to vote for obama in 08. i wanted to believe in his “stop the wars’, and hope and change platform. i thought obama was a different kind of politician. he’s not. status quo, big government, build the military complex, arrest and or kill whoever gets in the way.prison system is good for government and profit. greed, corruption, power-grabbing, and money. best friends at big pharma makes for more power and money…..
nope, our current commander in grief is a real let-down.
so- would you guys rather have 4 more years of the same type of government we have had, or take a chance on one of the few honest politicians we have left, one who want to bring our troops home, build our OWN nation, limit government, and give us our freedom back?

this time, ron paul is the ONLY one who deserves my vote!

song

songman727 on December 14, 2011 at 4:18 PM

Yes, Ron Paul is an ultra-liberal who loves big government! All of his anti-big government, pro-liberty votes over the decades is just a ruse!

LOL. Come on, dude.

Dante on December 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM

Is Ron Paul Really anti-Israel?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xv9bQFanXj8

nazo311 on December 15, 2011 at 1:50 PM